21 man squad v Huddersfield

[John]

It was a dull style under Woolf tbf, but he signed players that were built for his style of play so it would make us dominant. Sironen, Matautia, Paasi, Hopoate, Hurrell etc. All generally big, solid players who can make yards with the ball which allowed us to eat up the territory, and also some big hitters in defence to pen them in.

It kinda feels like Wellens is being caught between Woolf's style and what he wants to do.

He's signed Ritson (a speedster and different to other wingers we have ut doesnt use him), Whitley, Blake and Clark. Whitley is not really in the dominant forward mould and I doubt it would've been someone Woolf would've targeted, I think he'd have gone for a big prop tbh. These types of players I'm not really sure what Wellens is trying to build.

Holbrook and Woolf had clear styles about the way they wanted to play, I'm not really sure what we are under Wellens with the way we want to play compared to the players we've signed. If he wants to go lighter and more attacking we're not really seeing it yet.

I agree. I think Wellens seems to be caught between two stools and isn't quite sure which way to go. On top of that, I have the impression the club is waiting for some young players to mature and is more sure about which direction to take when they are ready. So right now the backs in the are squad is too old to stick with Woolfeball and too slow to adapt to something new. Our defence is still usually very good.

If that's not a "transition" thing I'm not sure what is.

 

[niall]

Oh I heard plenty of crust munchers that were less than happy.
As for Wellens he won’t be getting sacked,I’m hoping he can turn our attack round but much as I like him I’m not too confident in that though. A full off season and we looked like strangers on Thursday. I think people have a right to be concerned because our attack is getting worse despite field dominance.

Got to agree. Wellens was probably my favourite player but it is hard watching them at the moment. Which is surprising given the coaches he played under and players he played with as someone outlined above

 

[bewareshadows]

Don’t disagree with any of that.

I’ve commented a few times now about the style of play and the way we constantly use the back rowers. We use them like we still have Sironen/Sione in the back row (both moved to prop), Whitley/Batch are not that style of player. I’ve said for a few week now that i think this is a big issue Wellens. Sironen going to prop is a ridiculous decision IMO, been our best back rower for a while now.

Wellens is trying to carry on the work that Woolf has done and see’s that as a proven winning formula IMO. However, as you rightly point out we haven’t really recruited to continue that style but are still trying to do it anyway.

Given our two best yard or attacking props are out with leg injuries it's not like he has much choice sat in the stands.

Lees is a defensive prop you can't change a players attributes in a few weeks . It took years for some second rowers to become props.

 

[Belgian Saint]

I thought Lomax's response to Brian Carney's query about the reason for the 'eerie' atmosphere (as Lomax described it) at last night's game was revealing. He carefully sidestepped the question, but he was clearly conscious of the lack of enthusiasm and pre-match anticipation from the crowd. I got the impression that the playing group are painfully aware of the supporters' disillusionment with the playing style atm, and wonder if there is a growing frustration with the 'gameplan' that the team are being asked to follow. Could the coach be losing the changing room?
I could be wrong and this is only a gut feeling. Did anybody else notice this, or is it just my overactive imagination?

You would hope that some of the players are speaking their mind on the way we play. For all that we love attacking rugby, I’m sure the players feel the same about having the crowd continually supporting them from start to finish.

 

[Saint Bernard]

Given our two best yard or attacking props are out with leg injuries it's not like he has much choice sat in the stands.

Lees is a defensive prop you can't change a players attributes in a few weeks . It took years for some second rowers to become props.

Moving Knowles to prop and starting Bell would be a much better option than losing the one bit of strike we have in the back row.

Knowles
Lees
Delaney
Mautautia

All 4 of those are capable of playing prop, if not i’d rather him give Stephens some minutes than move Sironen from back row, it’s a complete waste. Thats 5 options at prop before being forced to move Sironen.

If he insists on moving him then he has to adapt the rugby to suit. We are getting Whitley and Batch battered with crash ball after crash ball because that is not there game. Thats the biggest issue.

 

[bewareshadows]

Moving Knowles to prop and starting Bell would be a much better option than losing the one bit of strike we have in the back row.

Knowles
Lees
Delaney
Mautautia

All 4 of those are capable of playing prop, if not i’d rather him give Stephens some minutes than move Sironen from back row, it’s a complete waste. Thats 5 options at prop before being forced to move Sironen.

If he insists on moving him then he has to adapt the rugby to suit. We are getting Whitley and Batch battered with crash ball after crash ball because that is not there game. Thats the biggest issue.

I think that is a fair call but in reality Knowles is still not going to be as effective as a Pasi or Warmlsley. So there will still be a need for the second rower to contribute more in terms of running hard yards than they would if our best props were on the field allowing them to play their more natural game.

I don't think wellens is closed to trying different options, but we have to try them to see how they work.


I still maintain that our biggest issue at the moment is gifting territory on the 4th or 5th tackle. It's become more of an issue over the last few months and to some extent last year.


It hurts us as the forwards have put so much energy into the first tackles they are left with little in the tank to attack with unless we win the territory for the full set of 6

 

[John]

I’ve just watched this again. I don’t think we were that bad. The ref allowed slow play of the ball, Huddersfield defended well, we had too many inside drop off passes, when we passed it through more than two pairs of hands we looked better but didn’t do that enough, we had too many forwards doing single drives into the defence.

When Clarke came on on Wellens switched it around we looked better. A spine of Welsby, Mbye, Lomax, Clarke and Bell looks like our best one to me

On the rare occasions we actually passed through three or four players we made ground. Our defence was epic.

I’m feeling less doom laden having watched it again. It wasn’t great but it wasn’t awful either. Blake could be a pretty decent signing.

 

[Churchy]

I’ve just watched this again. I don’t think we were that bad. The ref allowed slow play of the ball, Huddersfield defended well, we had too many inside drop off passes, when we passed it through more than two pairs of hands we looked better but didn’t do that enough, we had too many forwards doing single drives into the defence.

When Clarke came on on Wellens switched it around we looked better. A spine of Welsby, Mbye, Lomax, Clarke and Bell looks like our best one to me

On the rare occasions we actually passed through three or four players we made ground. Our defence was epic.

I’m feeling less doom laden having watched it again. It wasn’t great but it wasn’t awful either. Blake could be a pretty decent signing.

Agreed. We are boring to watch & slow but we are pretty efficient & our attack isn’t far off, something like 30 points off the highest scorers but having only played 2 of the bottom 3 unlike all those in the top 6. There are 2 parts to the game attack & defence. Our defence is phenomenal where the nearest to us in the top 6 in conceding is the pies who have conceded 48 more points than us having played a game less but have played Cas twice and London. Though admittedly there attack is 25 points better

 

[Brian Nazareth]

However, it’s pretty similar to how we played under Woolf for 3 years, the difference being a younger playing group who could play that style and keep up the intensity for much longer periods. Woolf was pretty boring, but it felt more effective.

I think it's more than just our players getting older.

Woolf brought an unprecedented level of intensity and physicality to a SL team. It was a case of physically dominate the opposition, intimidate them into submission.

It was impressive to watch, different to our previous great teams, but entertaining in it's own, brutal way.

We operated at times on the edge of the rules - the 'committed to the tackle, can't possibly pull out' thing, especially on opposition playmakers - but it took the Disciplinary time to catch up. By Woolf's third season, we were regularly getting hammered by the Disciplinary, even when it wasn't warranted (and often for offences that players of other teams got away with)

Even if Wellens had a team coming into it's prime, we couldn't play those tactics now. The Disciplinary have our card marked, and the rules are tighter now anyway.

I've said before, though, that Wellens seems to have playing a sort of Woolfball-lite. He also said we aim to be more attacking. The problem is, though, that we're falling between the two stools - although there's games that our defence has been intense enough to get us a narrow win.

 

[Johnathon Doe]

I would love to see Ritson running at a broken line, but would dread him being isolated at the back against a big forward.

That would apply to most fullbacks wouldn't it? Name a FB who would stop a big forward in a one on one at full tilt near the line?

 

[Belgian Saint]

That would apply to most fullbacks wouldn't it? Name a FB who would stop a big forward in a one on one at full tilt near the line?

I was actually thinking of a bit further than close to the line. 15 or 20 mtrs out I would sooner have someone like Coote or Welsby against someone like sat Mc Meeken running at them. However, I would still like to see Ritson come in on the wing if any of the centres or wings are missing.

 

[Johnathon Doe]

I was actually thinking of a bit further than close to the line. 15 or 20 mtrs out I would sooner have someone like Coote or Welsby against someone like sat Mc Meeken running at them. However, I would still like to see Ritson come in on the wing if any of the centres or wings are missing.

Personally I'd like him at Barrow if not getting in the squad but I see he is at Swinton with that young centre Vaughn again today, is this building a partnership for next season? Seems probable.

 

[STIDDY]

That would apply to most fullbacks wouldn't it? Name a FB who would stop a big forward in a one on one at full tilt near the line?

Thet reminded me of Gary Connolly tackling a rampaging Vila Matautia in front of the posts in the Regal Cup. Doesn't happen these days about 5 years back Walmsley stampeded and flat packed Rat Boy Tomkins at our place.

 

[John]

Personally I'd like him at Barrow if not getting in the squad but I see he is at Swinton with that young centre Vaughn again today, is this building a partnership for next season? Seems probable.

I've wondered the same thing! Or even for some games this season.

 

[brook]

Thet reminded me of Gary Connolly tackling a rampaging Vila Matautia in front of the posts in the Regal Cup. Doesn't happen these days about 5 years back Walmsley stampeded and flat packed Rat Boy Tomkins at our place.

I was thinking about that when the poster mentioned one on one with a forward, The look on his face was priceless

 

[Brian Nazareth]

That would apply to most fullbacks wouldn't it? Name a FB who would stop a big forward in a one on one at full tilt near the line?

Matt Dufty

 

[CaseyJ]

Matt Dufty

Mike Stevo's love child?

 

[Belgian Saint]

Personally I'd like him at Barrow if not getting in the squad but I see he is at Swinton with that young centre Vaughn again today, is this building a partnership for next season? Seems probable.

I would like to think that they are building a partnership and that Vaughan is skilful enough to give him a bit of a gap.