Welcome to the RedVee.Net forums!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss Rugby League, chat all things Saints and share opinions with other RedVee.Net members.

SignUp Now!

Transfer Rumours - All in Here

If Briers does come in and we play great attacking rugby and win the GF next season then fans will know it’s Briers who has been successful and not Wellens.
 
If Briers does come in and we play great attacking rugby and win the GF next season then fans will know it’s Briers who has been successful and not Wellens.
a) so what? b) attack is the missing ingredient in this team. It’s not the only one needed to win stuff.
 
So what’s the point of Wellens being Head Coach.
We’re currently still, on Wellens’s watch, a very good defensive team. Add a good attack to that and we’ll be right up there. Just because attack is the thing we’re currently crap at doesn’t mean we’re not good at anything else.
 
We’re currently still, on Wellens’s watch, a very good defensive team. Add a good attack to that and we’ll be right up there. Just because attack is the thing we’re currently crap at doesn’t mean we’re not good at anything else.
Whilst we will knock back anyone trying to break through the front door for 80 minutes, our defence against sides who spread the ball to the wings quickly has been shown to be a weakness. We need more pace in the backs, which would help in attack and defence.
 
We’re currently still, on Wellens’s watch, a very good defensive team. Add a good attack to that and we’ll be right up there. Just because attack is the thing we’re currently crap at doesn’t mean we’re not good at anything else.
I don’t think our defence is that good tbh,
 
I reluctantly have to agree with that. I know the stats are still good but we’re not wearing teams down with a relentless and fierce defence.
Not being as good as we were and not being good are two different things though. We can win a championship with our defence being as it is. We can’t win a championship with our attack as it is
 
The best managers in the world, in any industry, are the ones who bring in staff to mitigate their weaknesses. This is only ever a Briers v Wellens thing when it's made by those who see it that way.

It's like saying being the head of a software company and bringing in programmers is 'all them then'.
 
The best managers in the world, in any industry, are the ones who bring in staff to mitigate their weaknesses. This is only ever a Briers v Wellens thing when it's made by those who see it that way.

It's like saying being the head of a software company and bringing in programmers is 'all them then'.
I get what you are saying.
But bringing Briers in to improve the attack is fine, if the other facets are being done well. Our defence is suspect on the outsides, and we knew that from playing Salford at home. Yet nothing seemed to be different at their place when they went wide again. Leigh do the same to us, and even Cas, with a simple run around move exposed us. And as a motivator Wello doesn't seem to have what it takes. So if he has to bring people in to mitigate all of those weaknesses, it does make me wonder, legend though he is, whether he is the right man for the job.
 
I get what you are saying.
But bringing Briers in to improve the attack is fine, if the other facets are being done well. Our defence is suspect on the outsides, and we knew that from playing Salford at home. Yet nothing seemed to be different at their place when they went wide again. Leigh do the same to us, and even Cas, with a simple run around move exposed us. And as a motivator Wello doesn't seem to have what it takes. So if he has to bring people in to mitigate all of those weaknesses, it does make me wonder, legend though he is, whether he is the right man for the job.
I think there's some fair points there. I've not seen much improvement overall in the last 18 months. We've scored more points in certain games, but we're still blunt in big games. Our defence generally is pretty good but teams that go have pace out wide have burned us. The Woolf lite gameplan isn't really working because we don't have the same tools he had.

What I would say is we probably need to refresh the squad to give both of them the best possible chance to succeed and evolve the way we play.

The backline is in desperate need for some pace and I really think we could do with another prop aswell. Our best teams have always had good size and depth at prop and we've gone away from that recently, with our best props ageing too.
 
I think there's some fair points there. I've not seen much improvement overall in the last 18 months. We've scored more points in certain games, but we're still blunt in big games. Our defence generally is pretty good but teams that go have pace out wide have burned us. The Woolf lite gameplan isn't really working because we don't have the same tools he had.

What I would say is we probably need to refresh the squad to give both of them the best possible chance to succeed and evolve the way we play.

The backline is in desperate need for some pace and I really think we could do with another prop aswell. Our best teams have always had good size and depth at prop and we've gone away from that recently, with our best props ageing too.
Hits the nail on the head for me.
 
I get what you are saying.
But bringing Briers in to improve the attack is fine, if the other facets are being done well. Our defence is suspect on the outsides, and we knew that from playing Salford at home. Yet nothing seemed to be different at their place when they went wide again. Leigh do the same to us, and even Cas, with a simple run around move exposed us. And as a motivator Wello doesn't seem to have what it takes. So if he has to bring people in to mitigate all of those weaknesses, it does make me wonder, legend though he is, whether he is the right man for the job.
The truth is that every single aspect of our game has declined under Wellens. The defense isn't as good as it was under Woolf. It's not as intense, the line speed is not as quick or consistent, it's been non-existent some games. The tackling isn't as strong or as dominant. The kicking game is much weaker and far too limited. The team in general isn't making the metres it did under Woolf, we don't move the ball with the intent we did under Woolf. He was himself criticised for the structured nature of our play, but we executed the gameplan well under him on the whole. With Wellens it's the same approach, just poorly or lazily executed, the ball movement is slower, there are fewer runners and there is little backup play. The set moves we had under Holbrook and Woolf have been removed and we just don't look as threatening anymore.

Briers coming in would seemingly be a great addition to the coaching staff. If he could get our attack firing and make us a threat, it sounds like a really good idea. But how far will Wellens allow it to go? We can't be night and day in terms of the attack moving away from how Wellens has had it. One of the suspicions with Freyssinous is that he's only been allowed to work on tweaks and hasn't had any real input into how we attack.

We've also got to think about the squad. If Briers is coming in to coach Percival, Hurrell, Blake, Bennison and Ritson, with Lomax and Mbye in the halves, we might as well not bother, and save the money on his salary. We need to improve the players we've got in the backs at the moment, not just replace them with similar players. There really isn't much to work with at all. Even one very good outside back coming in could massively improve us.
 
I see no issue with replacing someone with someone else. It’s a pretty ordinary occurrence in these positions, especially if the current incumbent isn’t delivering in his position, which Laurent Fraysinnous isn’t. I’m sure he’s a nice bloke but it’s best to move on. It’s not worked, let’s try someone else.
 
The truth is that every single aspect of our game has declined under Wellens. The defense isn't as good as it was under Woolf. It's not as intense, the line speed is not as quick or consistent, it's been non-existent some games. The tackling isn't as strong or as dominant. The kicking game is much weaker and far too limited. The team in general isn't making the metres it did under Woolf, we don't move the ball with the intent we did under Woolf. He was himself criticised for the structured nature of our play, but we executed the gameplan well under him on the whole. With Wellens it's the same approach, just poorly or lazily executed, the ball movement is slower, there are fewer runners and there is little backup play. The set moves we had under Holbrook and Woolf have been removed and we just don't look as threatening anymore.

Briers coming in would seemingly be a great addition to the coaching staff. If he could get our attack firing and make us a threat, it sounds like a really good idea. But how far will Wellens allow it to go? We can't be night and day in terms of the attack moving away from how Wellens has had it. One of the suspicions with Freyssinous is that he's only been allowed to work on tweaks and hasn't had any real input into how we attack.

We've also got to think about the squad. If Briers is coming in to coach Percival, Hurrell, Blake, Bennison and Ritson, with Lomax and Mbye in the halves, we might as well not bother, and save the money on his salary. We need to improve the players we've got in the backs at the moment, not just replace them with similar players. There really isn't much to work with at all. Even one very good outside back coming in could massively improve us.
Just read your final paragraph. See #162 on the Lee Briers thread Saddened! Think we are of one mind(y)
 
I get what you are saying.
But bringing Briers in to improve the attack is fine, if the other facets are being done well. Our defence is suspect on the outsides, and we knew that from playing Salford at home. Yet nothing seemed to be different at their place when they went wide again. Leigh do the same to us, and even Cas, with a simple run around move exposed us. And as a motivator Wello doesn't seem to have what it takes. So if he has to bring people in to mitigate all of those weaknesses, it does make me wonder, legend though he is, whether he is the right man for the job.

All completely fair point and ones I am in agreement with, I too would be looking elsewhere for a Head Coach. I just don't see how people (not you) are calling it all Briers doing if we are more successful next year, as like you rightly say, there are other areas that require improvement to be at that point.
 
Not being as good as we were and not being good are two different things though. We can win a championship with our defence being as it is. We can’t win a championship with our attack as it is
I agree with what you say, the only caveat being is our defence on a downward curve?

I also see a real need during the off season for all teams to work on tackling technique to avoid being penalised under the new rules about high shots. I also think that strength in attack will become more important. I hope we have a defence coach who can deal with the changes and that Briers lives up to expectations.
 
Back
Top Bottom