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The league

fishy3005

cannot function without tinternet
Joined
16 March 2011
Messages
12,265
Lets give credit where its due. Its a close league this year. 4 points between 4th and 8th. We are quick to call out the sport when its going wrong but its a good season so far. We are out in front but its still all to play for.
Can anyone call with any confidence who will finish 3rd, 4th and 5th by the end of the regular rounds? I can’t. Its a pretty good season imo.
 
Plus the relegation battle seems equally tight. I thought London were going to get cast adrift at one point but a bad run from Leeds, HKR, Huddersfield and even Salford or Wigan could see them dropping into the mire. For me it shows that there is an awful lot of mediocrity in SL.
In other news Halifax were well beaten by Barrow today.
 
There's been some low quality games this season but the because we have a play off system it doesn't reward the most consistent team.
Hull and Wigan for example have been very poor for most of the season but if they get their act together with 10 or so games to go they could end up as champions.
 
If we beat Leeds next week we’re mathematically safe from relegation and Leeds can’t finish above us.

Other than that it’s a close run race
 
In terms of points scored I’m not sure it is a good league personally. Saints and Warrington are streets ahead of the rest. SD 338 and 235 respectively. Out of the other ten teams only Salford have a positive SD of 77. The gulf between top two and bottom 4 is very big. The league structure is also a bit silly in that current 4th and 5th have a shot at the title. In my view if we went to a league of 16 teams by promoting the top four from the championship the middle and bottom of the league would actually be more competitive. It would allow 15 home games and 15 away games. The team that ends on top are the champions. The bottom two are relegated. Two top from the lower league are promoted. Overall the current standard isn’t that great. I realise that we currently lost to London but any team in this league can have the odd good game. The issue is sustaining it. An alternative would be to allow 16 franchises with 3 year commitment but insist that each team fields a second team which plays in a reserve league of 15 home and 15 away games.
 
In terms of points scored I’m not sure it is a good league personally. Saints and Warrington are streets ahead of the rest. SD 338 and 235 respectively. Out of the other ten teams only Salford have a positive SD of 77. The gulf between top two and bottom 4 is very big. The league structure is also a bit silly in that current 4th and 5th have a shot at the title. In my view if we went to a league of 16 teams by promoting the top four from the championship the middle and bottom of the league would actually be more competitive. It would allow 15 home games and 15 away games. The team that ends on top are the champions. The bottom two are relegated. Two top from the lower league are promoted. Overall the current standard isn’t that great. I realise that we currently lost to London but any team in this league can have the odd good game. The issue is sustaining it. An alternative would be to allow 16 franchises with 3 year commitment but insist that each team fields a second team which plays in a reserve league of 15 home and 15 away games.

I’m not sure SL will want to spread the money more thinly, certainly until they know the outcome of the next tv negotiations
 
I’m not sure SL will want to spread the money more thinly, certainly until they know the outcome of the next tv negotiations

How much will Super League be worth with such overall low standards I wonder? Sure a stronger league with more competition through out the league table would attract a better deal. Unless we’re just air time fodder
 
There's been some low quality games this season but the because we have a play off system it doesn't reward the most consistent team.
Hull and Wigan for example have been very poor for most of the season but if they get their act together with 10 or so games to go they could end up as champions.


As opposed to complaints over dead rubbers as there's nothing to play for

We've had a play off system for years

Every season sees some poor quality games, always will, not good enough reason to change
 
In terms of points scored I’m not sure it is a good league personally. Saints and Warrington are streets ahead of the rest. SD 338 and 235 respectively. Out of the other ten teams only Salford have a positive SD of 77. The gulf between top two and bottom 4 is very big. The league structure is also a bit silly in that current 4th and 5th have a shot at the title. In my view if we went to a league of 16 teams by promoting the top four from the championship the middle and bottom of the league would actually be more competitive. It would allow 15 home games and 15 away games. The team that ends on top are the champions. The bottom two are relegated. Two top from the lower league are promoted. Overall the current standard isn’t that great. I realise that we currently lost to London but any team in this league can have the odd good game. The issue is sustaining it. An alternative would be to allow 16 franchises with 3 year commitment but insist that each team fields a second team which plays in a reserve league of 15 home and 15 away games.

Change again???

League structure is silly because it has a play off? Same play off system we've had for Years? The one that helps income, helps promote the sport and increase audience numbers? The one that limits dead rubbers?

Straight league would be a disaster for the sport

I would like to see 14 teams but not 16 and not 2 up and down. There are plenty very good players to go round in my opinion, that's not the issue, the issue is part time players cannot compete with full time, promotion give the upcoming team big problems and they usually go back down, that's not good for the sport

These a reason we made these changes in the first place, don't drag the sport back down
 
I do miss the week-to-week intensity of the FPTP system. But there’s no chance that SL will ever ditch the play offs. That being the case, the best playoff system by far is the top 5.
 
I do miss the week-to-week intensity of the FPTP system. But there’s no chance that SL will ever ditch the play offs. That being the case, the best playoff system by far is the top 5.

I think you could be right. That being the case I think a fourteen team league, with mandatory reserve league, ending with a play off system would improve the competition. A 16 team league with play offs produces too games per season. I still think FPTP is preferable but SL may not get rid of the play off system as you say. 26 games per season plus magic weekend equals 27 but one or two more random matches. The current twelve teams with teams playing the same team at least three times leaves too big a gap between far two few good teams and far too many also rans in my view. The overall quality of the league is reducing in my view. A final 5 team playoff is exciting but a league of twelve teams with two good teams is too few. Unless standards improve we will face an up hill battle to stay as full time professional sport.

I’m a bit surprised at the overall theme of this thread really. How many TV games have we seen, ex lauding Saints, Warrington and sometimes Salford that have been worth watching?

I’ve been watching old matches on YouTube and in my view we’ve lost a lot
 
Change again???

League structure is silly because it has a play off? Same play off system we've had for Years? The one that helps income, helps promote the sport and increase audience numbers? The one that limits dead rubbers?

Straight league would be a disaster for the sport

I would like to see 14 teams but not 16 and not 2 up and down. There are plenty very good players to go round in my opinion, that's not the issue, the issue is part time players cannot compete with full time, promotion give the upcoming team big problems and they usually go back down, that's not good for the sport

These a reason we made these changes in the first place, don't drag the sport back down

I'm not advocating we change again but I dont like the current system and I don't agree that a straight league would be a disaster.
The first two or three years of Super League were first past the post and then a Premiership type play off.
Obviously fans like the drama of a play off and Sky have a hyped it up but it isn't a measure of the best team in the competition. The LLS is by far the most difficult trophy to win and deserves greater recognition.
On a first past the post system Huddersfield, Warrington and Castleford would have been Champions over the last few years and that would have been a fairer reflection of the League.


I would also suggest that there are dead rubbers in the current system. A team only needs to win say 66% of their fixtures to get in the top 5 so their other games are of no consequence.

I do agree with your idea about increasing the League but I think the Grand Final system is a bit like the old story of "The King's new Clothes" we all know that the League Leaders should be the Champions but no one wants to speak up. :D :D :D
 
If a trophy was presented to the league leaders that was more impressive than the shield that is presented now.I am sure finishing at the top of the league would be more prestigious than it is now.
 
I'm not advocating we change again but I dont like the current system and I don't agree that a straight league would be a disaster.
The first two or three years of Super League were first past the post and then a Premiership type play off.
It didn't go to a premiership style playoff - it was FTPTP in '96 and '97, and then from '98 we went to the top 5 system that has just been reintroduced (which was later expanded to a top 6 and then a top 8).

EDIT: ignore the above ... misunderstood your post.
 
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I'm not advocating we change again but I dont like the current system and I don't agree that a straight league would be a disaster.
The first two or three years of Super League were first past the post and then a Premiership type play off.
Obviously fans like the drama of a play off and Sky have a hyped it up but it isn't a measure of the best team in the competition. The LLS is by far the most difficult trophy to win and deserves greater recognition.
On a first past the post system Huddersfield, Warrington and Castleford would have been Champions over the last few years and that would have been a fairer reflection of the League.


I would also suggest that there are dead rubbers in the current system. A team only needs to win say 66% of their fixtures to get in the top 5 so their other games are of no consequence.

I do agree with your idea about increasing the League but I think the Grand Final system is a bit like the old story of "The King's new Clothes" we all know that the League Leaders should be the Champions but no one wants to speak up. :D :D :D


You make some good points but I just feel it's moved on and won't go back

Yes I believe we should make more of lls, tbf our players didn't celebrate it the other year which I believe was wrong
 
If a trophy was presented to the league leaders that was more impressive than the shield that is presented now.I am sure finishing at the top of the league would be more prestigious than it is now.

It certainly needs to have much greater value than it has at the moment, the current play off really means the last 3 games has much greater value than the 29 games preceding it.

For example the Goons could sneak into the top 5 position having played in the league of 29 games with 14 wins and 15 losses with say a negative points difference of -20 pts for a total league pts of 28.

Saints could be in top position having played in the league of 29 games with 25 wins and 4 losses with say a positive points difference of +400 pts for a total league pts of 50.

The Goons beat us in the grand final, for me they are Superleague Champions in name only and not a reflection of being the best team over the season. I think we had a similar scenario with Leeds winning from 5th place who were pretty pants for the majority of the season.
 
I think Saints put pressure on themselves by not celebrating finishing top last year when they received the shield.It seemed that being the outstanding side of last year and loosing the CC semi final put everything on the semi against Warrington.It was as if they didn’t rate what they had done all season was just a rehearsal for the semi and grand final.
 
It certainly needs to have much greater value than it has at the moment, the current play off really means the last 3 games has much greater value than the 29 games preceding it.

For example the Goons could sneak into the top 5 position having played in the league of 29 games with 14 wins and 15 losses with say a negative points difference of -20 pts for a total league pts of 28.

Saints could be in top position having played in the league of 29 games with 25 wins and 4 losses with say a positive points difference of +400 pts for a total league pts of 50.

The Goons beat us in the grand final, for me they are Superleague Champions in name only and not a reflection of being the best team over the season. I think we had a similar scenario with Leeds winning from 5th place who were pretty pants for the majority of the season.

Anybody with any sense can see it’s a complete joke, when I talk to non RL fans they find it ridiculous
 
I wish people wouldn’t fall for the dead rubber tripe as a justification for play offs. Its risible nonsense pedalled by broadcasters thats rubbish. Perhaps play offs would have more credibility if teams had different fixture schedules.
 
It didn't go to a premiership style playoff - it was FTPTP in '96 and '97, and then from '98 we went to the top 5 system that has just been reintroduced (which was later expanded to a top 6 and then a top 8).

I think he’s referring to the premiership playoffs which continued for the first 2 seasons of the SL era.
 
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