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Thread: Relegation

  1. #76
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    I think the standard has stabilised and possibly picked up slightly over the last two or three years thanks to the marquee rule. There have been some better quality imports and the flow of players to the NRL and RU seems to have slowed down.

    But there’s absolutely no question that the calibre of player running around in this league is well below what it was 10-20 years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I think the standard has stabilised and possibly picked up slightly over the last two or three years thanks to the marquee rule. There have been some better quality imports and the flow of players to the NRL and RU seems to have slowed down.
    Not convinced, look at the number of NRL players in the GB provisional as well as Aussie born players, which I disagree with! in the Sunday papers yesterday there were rumours of RL players to go to RU, no names yet? and look at how many coaching we have lost to RU over the years.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaybs View Post
    Not convinced, look at the number of NRL players in the GB provisional as well as Aussie born players, which I disagree with! in the Sunday papers yesterday there were rumours of RL players to go to RU, no names yet? and look at how many coaching we have lost to RU over the years.
    Over the years, yes. But I’d suggest that the flow has slowed down in the last couple of years. Most of the NRL names in the GB squad are players who have already been there for a few years.

    I’m not for a second suggesting that we should be satisfied with where we are, but just that the marquee rule has nudged us in the right direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Ok then.

    Soon be one less fan attending this current garbage.

    The standard isn't dropping? Now I know you're on the wind up. It's atrocious.
    I wouldn't consider someone who despises the product so much to be a fan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    I would prefer to see Toulouse in Super League
    So would I. There are a lot of amateur and semi pro teams around that region, so plenty of feeder clubs.

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    I think people have selective memories when considering the past

    Some players stood out years ago because the rest were very average

    Now the average player is much better, meaning the best find it harder to shine each and every week

    We still have some very good players, Roby, Rachford, Walmsley, Williams,(and others) some good imports like Barba, Austin etc and a bunch of great players who've headed out to the NRL

    Our academy beat Aus last year, the championship has really improved in recent years there's so much to be optomistic about but every generation seems to think it was better back in their day.

    Naming a few super stars from the past is not proof the overall standard is now wel below what it was

    The game isn't different than then which is also a consideration when comparing eras

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    I wouldn't consider someone who despises the product so much to be a fan
    Are you actually this stupid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    I wouldn't consider someone who despises the product so much to be a fan
    I have criticised the sport so I'm not a fan.

    I must just turn up at pretty much every Saints game & a fair few internationals & hand my coin over because?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    I think people have selective memories when considering the past

    Some players stood out years ago because the rest were very average

    Now the average player is much better, meaning the best find it harder to shine each and every week

    We still have some very good players, Roby, Rachford, Walmsley, Williams,(and others) some good imports like Barba, Austin etc and a bunch of great players who've headed out to the NRL

    Our academy beat Aus last year, the championship has really improved in recent years there's so much to be optomistic about but every generation seems to think it was better back in their day.

    Naming a few super stars from the past is not proof the overall standard is now wel below what it was

    The game isn't different than then which is also a consideration when comparing eras
    Our academy always beats Aus. I remember an academy team featuring James Graham in beating Australia's equivalent.

    When we get to the NRL v Super League though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    I think people have selective memories when considering the past

    Some players stood out years ago because the rest were very average

    Now the average player is much better, meaning the best find it harder to shine each and every week

    We still have some very good players, Roby, Rachford, Walmsley, Williams,(and others) some good imports like Barba, Austin etc and a bunch of great players who've headed out to the NRL

    Our academy beat Aus last year, the championship has really improved in recent years there's so much to be optomistic about but every generation seems to think it was better back in their day.

    Naming a few super stars from the past is not proof the overall standard is now wel below what it was

    The game isn't different than then which is also a consideration when comparing eras

    I think you might be right that the standard of the average player has risen slightly over recent years, no doubt thanks to advances in conditioning and coaching. But there were simply more star-quality players in the SL then than there are now. Part of the reason is in your own post: 'and a bunch of great players who've headed out to the NRL'. This is not evidence of a stronger SL - it's evidence of a SL that has been weakened by cashed-up competitors.

    As I've posted above, I agree that the quality of import has started to improve over the last couple of years thanks to the marquee rule, but there were more good ones coming over in the early 2000s and nobody was going in the opposite direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    I have criticised the sport so I'm not a fan.

    I must just turn up at pretty much every Saints game & a fair few internationals & hand my coin over because?

    You claim it's rubbish, so why do you attend every week to watch rubbish, all you do is slate the game every chance you get

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    Anybody who doesn’t think the standard is dropping should go and have a look at the names playing for the likes of Saints, Wigan and Bradford in the late 90s/00s
    A handful of great names is no proof of better standards anymore than a handful of average players is proof of standards being lower

    Barry Ward, Ricky Bibey etc etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I think you might be right that the standard of the average player has risen slightly over recent years, no doubt thanks to advances in conditioning and coaching. But there were simply more star-quality players in the SL then than there are now. Part of the reason is in your own post: 'and a bunch of great players who've headed out to the NRL'. This is not evidence of a stronger SL - it's evidence of a SL that has been weakened by cashed-up competitors.

    As I've posted above, I agree that the quality of import has started to improve over the last couple of years thanks to the marquee rule, but there were more good ones coming over in the early 2000s and nobody was going in the opposite direction.
    I think people only remember the top games though Dux, there was some rubbish served up years ago in weekly rounds that we tend to forget, the top players got slated at times, as time passes and that's forgotten imagining our era is better
    I'm not saying it's better at the moment, I do believe there is more depth, the average player is better, youth is better, lower leagues standard has improved maybe the SL hasn't but I don't think it's worse and don't have s glass half full attitude slating our great game, it's just different.
    You can still enjoy a game if the standard is lower, I enjoy watching amateur, obviously that's not the top level but it's still entertaining, just enjoy the game
    Last edited by Upside; 16th September 2019 at 16:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Our academy always beats Aus. I remember an academy team featuring James Graham in beating Australia's equivalent.

    When we get to the NRL v Super League though...

    We always beat austrialia? Four times in 16 years, I think they play every two years so half at best

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    You claim it's rubbish, so why do you attend every week to watch rubbish, all you do is slate the game every chance you get
    Perhaps because he loves his club and going to the game is an important part of his life for various reasons and not just the product on the field. You can love your club, and love what it means to you to support them and go to games but find the sport and the structure of it all to be a bit crap at the same time. Not sure why this is hard to understand.

    Turning up to a game is not a vote of confidence in the game itself. There are many reasons to go to a game that don't necessarily mean you think it's heading in the right direction. There are many football clubs that get big crowds but have owners that most fans hate and are heading in the wrong direction. But going to the game means something to people. It's hard to break tribal habits and loyalties to your hometown club.

    Simply stating that everything is fine does nobody any good. Look at the crowds for the last two Cup Finals, look at the TV ratings for Grand Finals, etc. Things aren't as great as you make them out to be. And, if you really wanted people who aren't thrilled with the sport to stop going you'd end up regretting it fairly quickly if they did I would imagine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Perhaps because he loves his club he can talk for himself, he doesn't need you to assume what his motives are and then build a post around your assumptionsand going to the game is an important part of his life for various reasons and not just the product on the field. You can love your club, and love what it means to you to support them and go to games but find the sport and the structure of it all to be a bit crap at the same time. Not sure why this is hard to understand.

    Turning up to a game is not a vote of confidence in the game itself. There are many reasons to go to a game that don't necessarily mean you think it's heading in the right direction. I think your going of on a tangent, this is t what was being discussed, he said he wasn't going to attendThere are many football clubs that get big crowds but have owners that most fans hate and are heading in the wrong direction. But going to the game means something to people. It's hard to break tribal habits and loyalties to your hometown club.

    Simply stating that everything is fine does nobody any good. Who has stated this? It's entirely your assumption. Simply threatening to leave the sport and critisising everything and anything does nobody any good would you agree?Look at the crowds for the last two Cup Finals, look at the TV ratings for Grand Finals, etc. Things aren't as great as you make them out to be. Not really made them out to be great, misrepresenting my views there, I just don't see it as dire and depressing as others, this is different than saying everything is great, this is bordering on a straw man argumentAnd, if you really wanted people who aren't thrilled with the sport to stop going you'd end up regretting it fairly quickly if they did I would imaginefor sure we need new people and new fans, but some dark miserable negative fans can stop growth as they put new people off, look at swinton .
    He said he wasn't going to watch if his demands were not met, the challenge cup final being in October, read the full thread, people have a habit of being selective when reading forums

    I stand by the fact that somebody who slates the game, threatens to leave the sport and stop turning up to watch unless demands for their own opinion on change are met are no loss to the game

    Or as I imagine, it's a load of hot air and he doesn't really mean it, and as such these fans opinions are just throw away comments and not to be taken seriously or as a credible view

    Now which is it, stop going unless the challenge cup is in October and the GF is dropped or hot air?
    Last edited by Upside; 16th September 2019 at 17:21.

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    I love the game it is what I do besides work and family. However when Mal Menninga came across we had great players skill wise like Pinner and Arky and each club had them. However nobody could tackle Mal which is why he is a legend to us and why Sean Day can always say I had a great although short time with Saints. Each decade looks better looking back. My favourite Saints player ever is John Walsh I was 10 when he was at this peak and 13 when he followed his career to Canada. Robes and Lomax will always be heroes to a certain generation and I appreciate them both as a fan in my fifties in what is a very different game to what I first watched.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    You claim it's rubbish, so why do you attend every week to watch rubbish, all you do is slate the game every chance you get
    I claim it's rubbish because it is rubbish!!!

    Doesn't stop me backing the team for 80 mins!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Perhaps because he loves his club and going to the game is an important part of his life for various reasons and not just the product on the field. You can love your club, and love what it means to you to support them and go to games but find the sport and the structure of it all to be a bit crap at the same time. Not sure why this is hard to understand.

    Turning up to a game is not a vote of confidence in the game itself. There are many reasons to go to a game that don't necessarily mean you think it's heading in the right direction. There are many football clubs that get big crowds but have owners that most fans hate and are heading in the wrong direction. But going to the game means something to people. It's hard to break tribal habits and loyalties to your hometown club.

    Simply stating that everything is fine does nobody any good. Look at the crowds for the last two Cup Finals, look at the TV ratings for Grand Finals, etc. Things aren't as great as you make them out to be. And, if you really wanted people who aren't thrilled with the sport to stop going you'd end up regretting it fairly quickly if they did I would imagine.
    Thank you.

    Spoken for me perfectly. I appreciate it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    He said he wasn't going to watch if his demands were not met, the challenge cup final being in October, read the full thread, people have a habit of being selective when reading forums

    I stand by the fact that somebody who slates the game, threatens to leave the sport and stop turning up to watch unless demands for their own opinion on change are met are no loss to the game

    Or as I imagine, it's a load of hot air and he doesn't really mean it, and as such these fans opinions are just throw away comments and not to be taken seriously or as a credible view

    Now which is it, stop going unless the challenge cup is in October and the GF is dropped or hot air?
    It would be September actually.

    The Play off format & Grand Final is tired. It needs sorting. It needs to be a proper league comp.

    The Challenge Cup needs revitalizing. I slate the game to wake people up from the mess it's in.

    You just have to look at the lack of participation at amateur level to realise from the bottom up, we are struggling.

    No grass roots, no pro game. End of story.

    And please don't call me out for being all "hot air." I don't really like my credibility brought into question. You'll find more agree with me than agree with you on this.

    Me not putting any more money into the sport is no loss to the sport? Please explain because I am really struggling to understand your logic on that one. There are hardly a flock of supporters queuing at the turnstiles to replace the money I put in, no matter how insignificant you see my contribution as being to the sport.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    I think people only remember the top games though Dux, there was some rubbish served up years ago in weekly rounds that we tend to forget, the top players got slated at times, as time passes and that's forgotten imagining our era is better
    I'm not saying it's better at the moment, I do believe there is more depth, the average player is better, youth is better, lower leagues standard has improved maybe the SL hasn't but I don't think it's worse and don't have s glass half full attitude slating our great game, it's just different.
    You can still enjoy a game if the standard is lower, I enjoy watching amateur, obviously that's not the top level but it's still entertaining, just enjoy the game
    I do enjoy the game - it’s why I have a season ticket. Nor am I ‘slating our great game’. It’s possible to love the game and be aware of and discuss its shortcomings at the same time.

    I would argue that a) the casual viewer is attracted to big name, high quality players, and b) the game relies on the casual viewer for its survival. I worry that the many years of salary cap contraction have just worn the gloss off the game. We have sleepwalked into a pretty grave situation and I suspect that we are going to get a rude awakening when the new tv deal negotiations come around.

    And while I know that every generation is nostalgic about its own childhood era, I think it’s objectively demonstrable that we have a considerably weaker roster of players than we had 10-20 years ago.

    How many players with full Aus or NZ international pedigree are playing in SL now? Or even SOO? I can hardly think of any. Krisnan Inu ... Trent Merrin ... Greg Bird ... there are probably a few more but I can’t think of any. In the early 2000s you had David Fairleigh, Kevin Iro and Sean Hoppe at Saints, Steve Renouf, Brett Dallas, Adrian Lam, Quentin Pongia at Wigan, Jason Smith at Hull, the Paul Brothers at Bradford ... and so on. Then you could add to that the many outstanding GB players who were playing in SL instead of the NRL. The game is a lot easier to sell to the casual sports fan when you have that sort of talent on show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I do enjoy the game - it’s why I have a season ticket. Nor am I ‘slating our great game’. It’s possible to love the game and be aware of and discuss its shortcomings at the same time.

    I would argue that a) the casual viewer is attracted to big name, high quality players, and b) the game relies on the casual viewer for its survival. I worry that the many years of salary cap contraction have just worn the gloss off the game. We have sleepwalked into a pretty grave situation and I suspect that we are going to get a rude awakening when the new tv deal negotiations come around.

    And while I know that every generation is nostalgic about its own childhood era, I think it’s objectively demonstrable that we have a considerably weaker roster of players than we had 10-20 years ago.

    How many players with full Aus or NZ international pedigree are playing in SL now? Or even SOO? I can hardly think of any. Krisnan Inu ... Trent Merrin ... Greg Bird ... there are probably a few more but I can’t think of any. In the early 2000s you had David Fairleigh, Kevin Iro and Sean Hoppe at Saints, Steve Renouf, Brett Dallas, Adrian Lam, Quentin Pongia at Wigan, Jason Smith at Hull, the Paul Brothers at Bradford ... and so on. Then you could add to that the many outstanding GB players who were playing in SL instead of the NRL. The game is a lot easier to sell to the casual sports fan when you have that sort of talent on show.

    I didn't say you was salting the game, I was talking about many fans in general, I also didn't mean to suggest that you should just enjoy the game, again I was just talking in general

    The NRL has increased in popularltiy and the income generation has grown massively, meaning they can pay players more and makes it harder for us to attract that high end talent. I don't think we should purely judge our co petition solely on the amount of Aussies that come over, many big names were past their best, not all but quite a few

    I would recommend people listen to last weeks full eighty minutes podcast, absolutely amazing insight, the new fan doesn't know the history and isn't held back by negative views, they just enjoy the game, they cannot complain it isn't as good as it was. And even if it isn't, we can still enjoy the sport, some amateur games are fantastic viewing and the standard is lower, doesn't mean it's less entertaining

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    It would be September actually.

    The Play off format & Grand Final is tired. It needs sorting. It needs to be a proper league comp. I've explained why many times this would not happen, you said you will leave the sport because of it

    The Challenge Cup needs revitalizing. I slate the game to wake people up from the mess it's in.

    Your a poster on a forum, slating the game does not wake anyone up, constructive comments and people,e getting involved does. Do you coach, encourage anyone to enjoy the sport? Not from what I see only negativity, that drives more people away than towards

    You just have to look at the lack of participation at amateur level to realise from the bottom up, we are struggling. Early age groups are massively up on 30 years ago, I k ow from direct experience. Look at Newcastle, new markets and new players, around 1500 players now and growing

    No grass roots, no pro game. End of story. And creating more change at the top achieves that? No it doesn't, look at the amateur game, look at what people are doing

    And please don't call me out for being all "hot air." I don't really like my credibility brought into question. You'll find more agree with me than agree with you on this. Because people agree with you or not does not make your view right, lots of people can be wrong, facts are what proves right from wrong not a vote. If you need posters to validate your opinion maybe your not as co ride t as you wish to appear

    Me not putting any more money into the sport is no loss to the sport? Please explain because I am really struggling to understand your logic on that one. There are hardly a flock of supporters queuing at the turnstiles to replace the money I put in, no matter how insignificant you see my contribution as being to the sport[I]because losing one negative supporter who is driving others away by slating the game all the time will make it easier for true supporters of the sport to encourage new people along who will enjoy the game

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    I claim it's rubbish because it is rubbish!!!

    Doesn't stop me backing the team for 80 mins!

    You said you were walking away

    It's not rubbish, despite you claiming it all the time. I think you are very disrespectful to all those professional players, lomas, Coote, Walmsely, Roby in your opinion are all rubbish

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upside View Post
    You said you were walking away

    It's not rubbish, despite you claiming it all the time. I think you are very disrespectful to all those professional players, lomas, Coote, Walmsely, Roby in your opinion are all rubbish
    I'm not that disrespectful. At least I can spell Lomax's name correctly

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