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Thread: 21 man squad v Leeds - SEMI FINAL!

  1. #151
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Losing Knowles would be a real blow. Not sure what we do for a loose then. Welsby can play there but we need another forward to deal with their numerous big units.

    Garcia is a real workhorse for them and he needs dealing with
    Don't particularly like Welsby at 13. It's OK bringing him on when the game is won and teams are tiring, but starting him in the middle is a bit different. I think he needs to be getting the ball with a bit of space, not with players all over him. If Knowles does miss out which I hope not, I would probably go with Mautautia at 13.

  2. #152
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    I’m confident about next week however worryingly they do have a side capable of winning in wet weather (if indeed it is wet)

    They complete really well and in Drinkwater have a 7 who can kick really well around the field and a big Old Trafford pitch.

    They also have lots of big game experience especially in their spine. Tomkins x2 Micky Mc, Drinkwater and Maloney have all played in Grand Finals, Maloney has also played Origin and Test RL of course.

    We are a better team than them and if we play as we can we will win but it’s going to be extremely difficult unless some of their French players go missing on such a big occasion


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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    The ball carrier didn’t just dip though he completely fell over at his feet.
    If they can claim this grading for Cooper’s a couple of weeks ago, I’m pretty sure they’d be able to use it against Sione here.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

  4. #154
    Learning All The Songs bewareshadows's Avatar
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    The only yellow last night was the first one.
    The rest were stupidly rediculous.

    By all means give a penalty for a head hit on a falling player. But you can't remove a player if a man is going down into their arm.

    As for Knowles are we sure he was sent off for a shoulder charge?

    I was talking to Leeds fans after the game as I could not see from where I was and they thought it was for back chat.

    Either way the game needs to sort out the falling issue. What if the guy falls and hits his head on a knee, are we going to red card players for having knees.

    Yes the tackler has a responsibility to look after the ball carrier, so hit the chest and don't lift between the legs.

    But the ball carrier has some responsibility to not be slipping down due to poor studs or an unbalanced run. And if you are turning in the tackle then some times bringing a man down accidentally turns into a crusher. If they had not have twisted at the last minute it would have been fine.

    The attacker has responsibilities too.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    If they can claim this grading for Cooper’s a couple of weeks ago, I’m pretty sure they’d be able to use it against Sione here.
    Was Cooper’s not a shoulder to the head?

    I don’t think Sione will get a ban, I am worried for Knowles though.

  6. #156
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Yellow Giraffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    If they can claim this grading for Cooper’s a couple of weeks ago, I’m pretty sure they’d be able to use it against Sione here.
    Completely different challenges though. Not comparable at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Completely different challenges though. Not comparable at all.
    The whole “comparable” thing is rubbish. The disciplinary grades things, looking at the grades and the breakdowns, to me, it most suits that A-B grade falling under the “ball carrier dips”. I’m expecting one game for Sione as a result.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by reliable sauce View Post
    Was Cooper’s not a shoulder to the head?

    I don’t think Sione will get a ban, I am worried for Knowles though.
    It was to me and you but under the gradings given by The RFL, he got charged with careless tackle - A-B - Ball Carrier Dips.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

  9. #159
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Blobbynator's Avatar
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    If either of them get a ban it is a joke and we should appeal. They were penalties at most. The game is becoming do soft, it's rugby league, a very physical game. Banning players for showpiece events for incidents like that are embarrassing.

    Anyway I thought Saints were brilliant last night. Our intensity in defence was outstanding and we were so direct and quick in attack, we were just rolling down the field with ease. Way too good for Leeds and anyone else to be honest. Hope it's a dry track next week. Repeat the magic performance minus the last 5 mins and it's ours
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    If either of them get a ban it is a joke and we should appeal. They were penalties at most. The game is becoming do soft, it's rugby league, a very physical game. Banning players for showpiece events for incidents like that are embarrassing.

    Anyway I thought Saints were brilliant last night. Our intensity in defence was outstanding and we were so direct and quick in attack, we were just rolling down the field with ease. Way too good for Leeds and anyone else to be honest. Hope it's a dry track next week. Repeat the magic performance minus the last 5 mins and it's ours
    Strange as it sounds, you, Dos & YG are all right. Unfortunately I think what Dos has said will happen.

    Still, any suspended players are more than welcome to join us next week for a couple of soft drinks

  11. #161
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    No way should anyone cop a ban from that game. The only one that is worth looking at again is Briscoe but it wasn’t dirty just mistimed, caution sufficient

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    I'm feeling fairly confident that neither of them will be banned. If we had been mid-season then I could see it happening, but I reckon the Grand Final coming up will work in our favour. I know that's not how it's meant to work but recent disciplinary decisions, and the decision to only give Briscoe a yellow yesterday, show that it must figure in their thinking.

    For the record, I completely agree with Blobby on this. I understand that the game has to be proactive about head injuries, but harshly punishing unavoidable accidents serves no purpose whatsoever.

    Knowles can't complain about his sin-binning - he was a touch late and it was a shoulder charge - but there was no contact with the head whatsoever and if that's anything more than a sin bin then I'll be fuming.

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    Great game and a tremendous atmosphere. Enjoyed the craic with some Leeds fans too! No doubt who the winners were. I thought Kendal was poor (as he was in the GF, giving the Pies a shot at goal with two minutes to go, which Hardaker should have scored), only real sin bin was Brisco, who was lucky not to get a red really. There was a period in the second half when Leeds had their oly real sustained pressure and Kendal seemed to be giving them everything. I lost count of how mant sets they ended up with. I haven't watched it back yet, so I may be wrong and Kendal right. Immense performance from the team as a whole, great defence. I've got to pick out two brilliant individual performances within that context though, Alex and Robes, an absolute masterclass of passsion, determination, leadership and skill. MOS candidates both in my eyes. COYS! Just an afterhtought, what on earth was Hurrell doing at the end of the match with the Leeds fans? Crazy guy!

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    Great game and a tremendous atmosphere. Enjoyed the craic with some Leeds fans too! No doubt who the winners were. I thought Kendal was poor (as he was in the GF, giving the Pies a shot at goal with two minutes to go, which Hardaker should have scored), only real sin bin was Brisco, who was lucky not to get a red really. There was a period in the second half when Leeds had their oly real sustained pressure and Kendal seemed to be giving them everything. I lost count of how mant sets they ended up with. I haven't watched it back yet, so I may be wrong and Kendal right. Immense performance from the team as a whole, great defence. I've got to pick out two brilliant individual performances within that context though, Alex and Robes, an absolute masterclass of passsion, determination, leadership and skill. MOS candidates both in my eyes. COYS! Just an afterhtought, what on earth was Hurrell doing at the end of the match with the Leeds fans? Crazy guy!
    I thought Kendall was just poor around the ruck area with a lot of lying on, we dominated near enough every tackle and earned the right of an extra couple of seconds, Leeds however didn't dominate the tackle most of the time and got a lot more seconds to slow things down. From that we seemed to be pinged for restarts a lot more.

    For the yellow cards thought he was fairly consistent on all of them, he consulted his touch judges and video referee to decide on the colour of card. If the disciplinary want to overide the ref, video ref and touch judge then as we already know the process is not fit for purpose.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I'm feeling fairly confident that neither of them will be banned. If we had been mid-season then I could see it happening, but I reckon the Grand Final coming up will work in our favour. I know that's not how it's meant to work but recent disciplinary decisions, and the decision to only give Briscoe a yellow yesterday, show that it must figure in their thinking.

    For the record, I completely agree with Blobby on this. I understand that the game has to be proactive about head injuries, but harshly punishing unavoidable accidents serves no purpose whatsoever.

    Knowles can't complain about his sin-binning - he was a touch late and it was a shoulder charge - but there was no contact with the head whatsoever and if that's anything more than a sin bin then I'll be fuming.
    A lot of Knowles tackles are borderline but i would argue he seems to hit more with his upper chest than his shoulder. He doesn’t turn his hips and lead with the shoulder like the typical shoulder charge.

    I think Kendall refereed ok last night other than the Briscoe incident. How can the Briscoe and Matautia tackles be worthy of the same punishment??
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  16. #166
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    I thought the Briscoe and Knowles ones were Yellow cards, the other two no as both attacking players were falling and I don't know what the tacklers could do to avoid that contact. IMO a penalty would have been the correct decision. Saying that I suppose if he yellow carded one he had to do the same for the other, we all moan about about consistency but I don't think there'll be any repercussions on those two tackles.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I thought Kendall was just poor around the ruck area with a lot of lying on, we dominated near enough every tackle and earned the right of an extra couple of seconds, Leeds however didn't dominate the tackle most of the time and got a lot more seconds to slow things down. From that we seemed to be pinged for restarts a lot more.

    For the yellow cards thought he was fairly consistent on all of them, he consulted his touch judges and video referee to decide on the colour of card. If the disciplinary want to overide the ref, video ref and touch judge then as we already know the process is not fit for purpose.
    For me Briscoe was a yellow card, it was more a lazy arm than a swinging or stiff one. Mata’utia and Donaldson should have been penalty only due to the height the opposing player was at when contact was made. Knowles was definitely a sin bin, hits the player very late with no arms in the tackle. Fortunately there was no contact with the head otherwise it would have been a red card and a ban. I don’t feel any of the challenges from yesterday warrant any further action and hopefully the RFL disciplinary agree.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Oledski (47), Prior (34), Donaldson (16), Smith (41), Martin (64), Tetevano (62), Holroyd (14). Leeds props and back row managed just 278m. Only one player for them broke 100m and that was Luke Briscoe with 103m off 19 carries. Walmsley and LMS alone carried more than all those Leeds forwards.

    Worth noting Walmsley though, 17 carries for 184m, 28 tackles 0 missed, 14 tackle busts. There was talk on the Leeds forum before the game of how Walmsley had been lucky to steamroller an inexperienced Leeds pack a few weeks ago and how with a full strength pack and the ‘enforcer’ Tetevano it would be a different story……oops!
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Oledski (47), Prior (34), Donaldson (16), Smith (41), Martin (64), Tetevano (62), Holroyd (14). Leeds props and back row managed just 278m. Only one player for them broke 100m and that was Luke Briscoe with 103m off 19 carries. Walmsley and LMS alone carried more than all those Leeds forwards.

    Worth noting Walmsley though, 17 carries for 184m, 28 tackles 0 missed, 14 tackle busts. There was talk on the Leeds forum before the game of how Walmsley had been lucky to steamroller an inexperienced Leeds pack a few weeks ago and how with a full strength pack and the ‘enforcer’ Tetevano it would be a different story……oops!
    Yes I was looking at the stats this morning to compare Leeds best prop against Saints best prop:-

    Oledski: 27 tackles, 4 tackles missed, tackle busts 1, metres 47.

    Walmsley: 28 tackles, 0 tackles missed, tackle busts 14, metres 184.

    Not sure, but I think thats a superleague record for tackle busts for a forward, I suspect some of the tackle busts were in anger of being kneed in the head whilst on the floor.

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    Prior and Tetevano are average, really do not see the fuss about Prior. Warmsley made them both look silly yesterday, Prior especially.

  21. #171
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    I'm not sure if this is right or not, but it seems to me that Walmsley is playing with more aggression under Woolf than I have seen him do previously. He's always carried and tackled hard, but you can see the aggression in his contacts over the past couple of seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OoOGazOoO View Post
    Prior and Tetevano are average, really do not see the fuss about Prior. Warmsley made them both look silly yesterday, Prior especially.
    Prior would be a great prop to have in a pack with someone like Walmsley. He’s got the work rate, good near the line, decent offloading and good hands. He isn’t going to break or even bend the line that often but he can take the workload off bigger props and allow them more impact. Didn’t happen last night as our defence was just too brutal and we targeted Prior and Oledski knowing that Leeds really had nothing else if those 2 were neutralised.

    Tetevano is a cheap shot merchant who I have yet to see have a positive impact on a game. I wouldn’t swap 10 of him for Knowles.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackrowSaint View Post
    I'm not sure if this is right or not, but it seems to me that Walmsley is playing with more aggression under Woolf than I have seen him do previously. He's always carried and tackled hard, but you can see the aggression in his contacts over the past couple of seasons.
    I feel he’s always run hard but he’s now running a bit smarter. He picked out Dwyer repeatedly last night and made his life miserable, makes you realise how important a good defensive hooker is. He also is stepping more close to the line and as a defender that’s a nightmare. You set yourself to make the hit and when a bloke the size of Walmsley changes the point of contact at the last second you are then tackling with just your arms rather than your whole body. You also see Walmsley running the ball in 2 hands with another player running the tip line as well. You can’t line up 4 defenders to hit Walmsley as he’s got the hands to put the support player through the gap. It was mentioned on commentary last night how Leeds were always one out runners and it’s easy to defend that. Going in 2’s or 3’s gives the defence choices to make and means it’s likely you get one or two defenders in the tackle rather than 3 or 4.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackrowSaint View Post
    I'm not sure if this is right or not, but it seems to me that Walmsley is playing with more aggression under Woolf than I have seen him do previously. He's always carried and tackled hard, but you can see the aggression in his contacts over the past couple of seasons.

    I passed comment on that last night, he’s trying to skittle people more than ever before. I wish he’d target smaller players more often, he’d run right over them…. Let’s hope he tramples Maloney on Saturday….
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackrowSaint View Post
    I'm not sure if this is right or not, but it seems to me that Walmsley is playing with more aggression under Woolf than I have seen him do previously. He's always carried and tackled hard, but you can see the aggression in his contacts over the past couple of seasons.
    With the exception of pivots Coote, Dodd, Lomax and Roby he's got the rest of the team hitting very hard in defence and attack. as well as Walmsley I thought Percival and Makinson were tremendous last night going in hard and fast causing lots of Leeds players to be overworked. Woolf is a craggy hard character and according to Coote the coach is very demanding maybe the players are now fully commited to Woolfs ideals of relentless pressure in defence and attack.

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