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Thread: Issues in the game

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    I've changed my mind, it's nothing to do with work if I decide to publicly support my team. Put my name on it.

    I also agree with using social media outlets to get further signatures.

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    The RU international yesterday emphasised why Gray's work is so important. Why? Well just look at England Rugby's partners proudly on displays O2, BA, Mitsubishi, IBM, Allianz, Umbro amongst others. Our game meanwhile is regressing and boasts the massively aspirational Betfred, Mushy Peas, Dacia and Ronseal. The cpommercial profile of the sport is in the toilet which is a massive issue because if there ain't money coming in then the sport is under threat. Years of unaccountable (bad) management has reduced the sport to a position where even its leading clubs struggle to attract a partner outside alcohol, pseudo-fags, pawnbrokers and local tinpot companies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    The RU international yesterday emphasised why Gray's work is so important. Why? Well just look at England Rugby's partners proudly on displays O2, BA, Mitsubishi, IBM, Allianz, Umbro amongst others. Our game meanwhile is regressing and boasts the massively aspirational Betfred, Mushy Peas, Dacia and Ronseal. The cpommercial profile of the sport is in the toilet which is a massive issue because if there ain't money coming in then the sport is under threat. Years of unaccountable (bad) management has reduced the sport to a position where even its leading clubs struggle to attract a partner outside alcohol, pseudo-fags, pawnbrokers and local tinpot companies.
    The example you’ve given is of international RU. I’ve checked Northampton RU’s site as an example of what their Premiership clubs can achieve. Here’s the link:

    https://www.northamptonsaints.co.uk/club/our-partners

    It’s pretty impressive but I don’t know what the sponsorship’s worth in financial terms. I picked Northampton because it’s an East Midlands club with pretty good support and isn’t what I’d regard as a “posh” club. The site also shows the competition sponsors.

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    And here is our sponsor list:

    https://www.saintsrlfc.com/commercial/sponsors/

    It also looks pretty impressive but I understand why people would like a more upmarket image than Cash Converters and Totally Wicked. I note, however, that Travis Perkins sponsor Northampton because the company is based in Northampton. I presume the same applies to the shoe company on their list. It would be interesting to know which club gets the most money from its sponsors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    And here is our sponsor list:

    https://www.saintsrlfc.com/commercial/sponsors/

    It also looks pretty impressive but I understand why people would like a more upmarket image than Cash Converters and Totally Wicked. I note, however, that Travis Perkins sponsor Northampton because the company is based in Northampton. I presume the same applies to the shoe company on their list. It would be interesting to know which club gets the most money from its sponsors.
    Saracens where recieving £2m per year from Allianz. That deal ended in '20.


    Saracens new sponsor is StoneX. Whilst no figures are available, it is claimed the new deal is worth more per year than Allianz.

    I picked Saracens as these sponsorship deals come in the wake of being relegated for the current season. So no Premiership Rugby or European Rugby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sinkers89 View Post
    Saracens where recieving £2m per year from Allianz. That deal ended in '20.


    Saracens new sponsor is StoneX. Whilst no figures are available, it is claimed the new deal is worth more per year than Allianz.

    I picked Saracens as these sponsorship deals come in the wake of being relegated for the current season. So no Premiership Rugby or European Rugby.
    I've said before so long as rugby league thinks of sponsors then its flogging a dead horse.
    Prestige sports have partners - associations with organisations who share the same aspirations and have asynergy with one another. E.g Land Rover and Burley horse trials, Nike and Athletics (obviosuly), US Postal and Cycling. Examples of brilliant partnerships.

    What do we have? Why would any forward minded organisation want a commercial relationship with our sport? The sport has as much finesse and credibility as Jay from Inbetweeners; desperate and deluded.We are trapped in the early 1990's where its 'dead good' if someone just stumps up a bit of cash to 'put there name on 'summut.' That type of thinking died with Marlboro Friday. The sport is massively behind the times when it comes to its commercial profile; for as long as it fails to take itself seriously and play up to Northern caricatures then its commercial portfolio will continue to underwhelm.

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    Only three real blue chip brands have really sunk money into RL clubs. Norweb - Wigan. ICI -Widnes and BNFL-Whitehaven, they built them a new stand and clubhouse. The problem was when each business had a change of direction it really hit the clubs involved. Pilkingtons only ever gave us dog scraps yet we allowed Harry to open everything. Lord Derby, I have always felt we should tap him for a few bob. Didn't we do a bit with the Safari Park at one point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    I've said before so long as rugby league thinks of sponsors then its flogging a dead horse.
    Prestige sports have partners - associations with organisations who share the same aspirations and have asynergy with one another. E.g Land Rover and Burley horse trials, Nike and Athletics (obviosuly), US Postal and Cycling. Examples of brilliant partnerships.

    What do we have? Why would any forward minded organisation want a commercial relationship with our sport? The sport has as much finesse and credibility as Jay from Inbetweeners; desperate and deluded.We are trapped in the early 1990's where its 'dead good' if someone just stumps up a bit of cash to 'put there name on 'summut.' That type of thinking died with Marlboro Friday. The sport is massively behind the times when it comes to its commercial profile; for as long as it fails to take itself seriously and play up to Northern caricatures then its commercial portfolio will continue to underwhelm.

    Playing devils advocate here, like it or not we (Rugby League) haven’t got the right demographic for “big business” sponsorship.

    Demographics dictate partnerships and sponsorship. RL fans don’t tend to be Mercedes-driving, Rolex wearing, Flannels-shopping, Maldives-holidaying Waitrose customers in my experience. Those sponsorships are for Golf and Tennis etc where most fans/amateur players are affluent, so Lidl or Ronseal are closer to the demographic. I’ve never visited a bookies in my life (gambling is for mugs in my opinion, having worked as a manager in Bingo halls and Casino’s for 5 years when I was younger) but I note a few people on here like a flutter so they fit the BetFred demographic too......

    Dacia are a budget brand, and fit our demographic I’m afraid.

    Totally Wicked? Embarrassing stadia name aside, anything that gets people off tobacco isn’t all bad in my book. Again, demographic? I’ve never smoked but I’ve painted my fence and like mushy peas so I might fit the demographic........

    Saints have a sponsor of Audi in Warrington, who in exchange for a car or two a season get a box and use of the facilities for conferencing during the weekdays. They are as close to blue chip as you could get but it’s reciprocal, there’s no big money coming in from that (it’s not Audi sponsorship, it’s a local Audi dealership) they aren’t on the shirt, they are in the program though. Saints used to have shirt sleeve sponsorship from James Edwards Land Rover (Inchcape group) and I know a guy quite high up who knows I’m a Saint fan and he told me they pulled out because they didn’t get any fiscal return ie nobody bought a Range Rover directly via the club (ironically, more players bought cars, including Scully and John Wilkin....)


    Halliwell Jones are a BMW dealer group who have naming rights for Wire’s ground, but again it’s not BMW it’s the local dealership.

    I know this isn’t what people want to hear but we need be realistic.

    WendyBall has 70,000 fans at Old Trafford (pre lockdown) and if 5% are affluent that’s 3500 people. But 2 billion people watch the premier league on TV. How many of those people are affluent? Let’s say 1%..... do the math and you’ve got 2o million

    We get 10% of their attendance for most games and by comparison virtually no TV apart from here in the UK.


    If you owned DHL/BULOVA/SINGHA BEER/VODAFONE/???? Why would you be linking to an at-best parochial sport?


    The issue here for me is purely and simply SKY TV. They need to up the exposure of the game, they need to advertise it, give a highlights package away to increase exposure.



    BUT imho The teams need to do more self-promotion, build the characters, involve “famous” fans, shout about the charity work, shout about the hospital visits etc.

    (The use of the stadium for COVID testing and jabs should have been sung from the rooftops, as Man U or whoever would have done)


    Exposure is the only way that the game will enter into the greater consciousness, and if that happens, maybe......just maybe there might be a bigger sponsorship deal, with a bigger partner willing to stick their head over the parapet and join in......






    Sorry for the rant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Playing devils advocate here, like it or not we (Rugby League) haven’t got the right demographic for “big business” sponsorship.


    If you owned DHL/BULOVA/SINGHA BEER/VODAFONE/???? Why would you be linking to an at-best parochial sport?


    Years ago when we were sponsored by a bathroom company that went bankrupt, DHL were willing to offer Saints 450K PA, After writing to Saints twice without a reply they gave up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Years ago when we were sponsored by a bathroom company that went bankrupt, DHL were willing to offer Saints 450K PA, After writing to Saints twice without a reply they gave up.
    Be that as it may, that proves the point because they sponsor Manchester United £40 million in a 4 year deal to be on the front of their TRAINING KIT. Not the shirt they play in........


    https://www.supplychaindigital.com/l...d-training-kit
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Be that as it may, that proves the point because they sponsor Manchester United £40 million in a 4 year deal to be on the front of their TRAINING KIT. Not the shirt they play in........


    https://www.supplychaindigital.com/l...d-training-kit
    The total deal was 48m, as well as training tops it also included all interviews having a DHL backdrop. 18 months into the contract Man U bought the contract out, as they said they had undervalued themselves. DHL also pay 200M to F1, but you can't seriously be comparing Saints with Man U or the likes of F1. Also it was approx 15 years ago when we had that bathroom sponsor, Man U were not getting 48m for training kit in those days, possibly not 48m for a main sponsor? I understand the demographics, but we had a chance of a blue chip sponsor and spurned it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    The total deal was 48m, as well as training tops it also included all interviews having a DHL backdrop. 18 months into the contract Man U bought the contract out, as they said they had undervalued themselves. DHL also pay 200M to F1, but you can't seriously be comparing Saints with Man U or the likes of F1. Also it was approx 15 years ago when we had that bathroom sponsor, Man U were not getting 48m for training kit in those days, possibly not 48m for a main sponsor? I understand the demographics, but we had a chance of a blue chip sponsor and spurned it.
    I tend to agree with this. Ok, DHL may not have offered vast amounts but it's certainly a logo on a shirt that people can relate too, then they see the same logo on a United training strip and the thought process is obvious. That's the same with the average person as it is other companies/brands looking to sponsor successful teams.

    I don't go in for this demographics lark either. I appreciate RL fans might not be the most monied in the country but there's no reason why they can't aspire to brands such as Rolex, BMW or whatever other luxury brand you can think of. The other side of that is that's there's plenty of lower brow brands to approach without selling out to the likes of TW and Stowbarts (or not selling in that case). Again though, this for me is down to years of mismanagement while the Yorkshire Mafia lined their own nests to the detriment of the game as a whole.

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    I don't buy the demographics argument either really. Yes, stereotypes exist, but for example Leeds must have as many people at Headlingley on an average Friday night doing okay for themselves as (let's say) Gloucester or Northampton do on a Saturday afternoon. Warrington as well have a fanbase that will contain a certain amount of good earners, and Warrington is an up-and-coming town which attracts attention because of its location on the West coast mainline and cheaper office rents than the SE. Those are just the first two clubs I can think of that probably have a fanbase that contain as many people who earn a decent wage as alot of club RU sides crowds.

    Also, the Magic Weekend is a big event in Newcastle. I have mates in Gosforth, it's a plush area and Newcastle has alot of such areas with lots of well-off people, plus it has a large amount of well-to-do students who study there, not to mention the amount of people who frequent the city centre from places like Durham and the nice areas up in Northumberland. Plastering the MW on billboards around the city would catch the eye of a decently wedged group of people over a week or a month, and I'm surprised we haven't managed to get a bigger named sponsor to take the naming rights for that particular event given where it is held.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I don't buy the demographics argument either really. Yes, stereotypes exist, but for example Leeds must have as many people at Headlingley on an average Friday night doing okay for themselves as (let's say) Gloucester or Northampton do on a Saturday afternoon. Warrington as well have a fanbase that will contain a certain amount of good earners, and Warrington is an up-and-coming town which attracts attention because of its location on the West coast mainline and cheaper office rents than the SE. Those are just the first two clubs I can think of that probably have a fanbase that contain as many people who earn a decent wage as alot of club RU sides crowds.

    Also, the Magic Weekend is a big event in Newcastle. I have mates in Gosforth, it's a plush area and Newcastle has alot of such areas with lots of well-off people, plus it has a large amount of well-to-do students who study there, not to mention the amount of people who frequent the city centre from places like Durham and the nice areas up in Northumberland. Plastering the MW on billboards around the city would catch the eye of a decently wedged group of people over a week or a month, and I'm surprised we haven't managed to get a bigger named sponsor to take the naming rights for that particular event given where it is held.
    I get what you say about Magic but Newcastle United doesn’t have the best recent history of partners/sponsors. At Magic a few years ago, I bought a retro shirt with a S&N blue star and annoyed a friend whose nephew and niece had bought him an up to date shirt with Wonga on it! He didn’t like the association with Wonga but felt obliged to wear the shirt. The current main sponsor, leaving aside Sports Direct, is a gambling company. And what if a big NE business like Greggs were to get involved with Magic? Would people complain about their image?

    I’ve previously mentioned that when I was on my own in The George someone started chatting to me and he was a doctor who was waiting for his mate who was also a doctor. In other words I agree with you and Angry Dave wholeheartedly on the demography point. I think that some potential sponsors may have some old fashioned views about Rugby League supporters.

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    We’re talking about businesses who will sponsor to get a return, not from the goodness of their heart. It’s called “Speculate to Accumulate” and demographics are what marketing people use to target their customers.

    If you buy car magazines they are littered with tyre adverts and tools etc. Esquire or GQ carries ads for clothes, shoes and watches. Men’s Health has adverts for fitness gear and supplements.......

    The reason Nike, Adidas and Puma don’t make shirts for SL because there isn’t enough profit in it for them. O’Neils, Hummel and ISC are smalltime by comparison.

    My point still stands that until we have bigger and better exposure, we won’t get bigger and better sponsors.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    We’re talking about businesses who will sponsor to get a return, not from the goodness of their heart. It’s called “Speculate to Accumulate” and demographics are what marketing people use to target their customers.

    If you buy car magazines they are littered with tyre adverts and tools etc. Esquire or GQ carries ads for clothes, shoes and watches. Men’s Health has adverts for fitness gear and supplements.......

    The reason Nike, Adidas and Puma don’t make shirts for SL because there isn’t enough profit in it for them. O’Neils, Hummel and ISC are smalltime by comparison.

    My point still stands that until we have bigger and better exposure, we won’t get bigger and better sponsors.......
    I remember the days of Reusch goalie gloves.

    This is completely irrelevant but I felt that i should mention it

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    My Wife and me were in a hotel up that way about 3or 4 years ago and i was talking to the hotel manager and said to him " i suppose you will be going to the Rugby League at Newcastle this week-end then " he had already said that he liked the game , his answer was i didnt know about it but me and a few mates will be there , so that wasnt well advertised then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    I remember the days of Reusch goalie gloves.

    This is completely irrelevant but I felt that i should mention it
    I'll up you on that. The Sondico stuff, used to love that running about thinking I was a 90's Italian footballer minus the silly perm, Ferrari and talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    We’re talking about businesses who will sponsor to get a return, not from the goodness of their heart. It’s called “Speculate to Accumulate” and demographics are what marketing people use to target their customers.
    Its much deeper than that. The days of sponsorship are dead; forward looking organisations will not just put their name on something in the public eye anymore without it properly connecting to their business and in effect solidifying their barnd as a 'lifestyle choice.' Thats why I despair when the sport reinforces its ultra low aspiration by cosying up to pawnbrokers, vapour fags and bingo. I'm pretty sure most folk on here would have going to t' bingo at the bottom of their list but RL seems to want to reinforce the stereotype of its fans as cast from Coronation Street.

    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    If you buy car magazines they are littered with tyre adverts and tools etc. Esquire or GQ carries ads for clothes, shoes and watches. Men’s Health has adverts for fitness gear and supplements.......

    The reason Nike, Adidas and Puma don’t make shirts for SL because there isn’t enough profit in it for them. O’Neils, Hummel and ISC are smalltime by comparison.

    My point still stands that until we have bigger and better exposure, we won’t get bigger and better sponsors.......
    At one time Wigan's playing strip was manufactured by Puma, St. Helens by Umbro and IIRC Widnes by Addidas. In fact I recall Maurice Lindsay brokering a deal with Nike in 1996 for al SL teams strips to be manufactured by them but it was refused.

    Of course business models change but there's the point. Super League as a brand is at an all time low. Its the equivalent of poundstretcher because its business model has been awful for so long which is one of the reasons this thread was born. The Ratner moment must have been that Stobart deal - Wood should be gelded for that the fat •••••••. Its also worth pointing out that those bigger names are'nt going to want to be seen dead with the likes of Mushy Peas, Vape fags, Bingo and pawnbrokers. It sullies their brand identity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Its much deeper than that. The days of sponsorship are dead; forward looking organisations will not just put their name on something in the public eye anymore without it properly connecting to their business and in effect solidifying their barnd as a 'lifestyle choice.' Thats why I despair when the sport reinforces its ultra low aspiration by cosying up to pawnbrokers, vapour fags and bingo. I'm pretty sure most folk on here would have going to t' bingo at the bottom of their list but RL seems to want to reinforce the stereotype of its fans as cast from Coronation Street.



    At one time Wigan's playing strip was manufactured by Puma, St. Helens by Umbro and IIRC Widnes by Addidas. In fact I recall Maurice Lindsay brokering a deal with Nike in 1996 for al SL teams strips to be manufactured by them but it was refused.

    Of course business models change but there's the point. Super League as a brand is at an all time low. Its the equivalent of poundstretcher because its business model has been awful for so long which is one of the reasons this thread was born. The Ratner moment must have been that Stobart deal - Wood should be gelded for that the fat •••••••. Its also worth pointing out that those bigger names are'nt going to want to be seen dead with the likes of Mushy Peas, Vape fags, Bingo and pawnbrokers. It sullies their brand identity.
    Unfortunately all of this is true of sponsorship today.

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    The RFL Chairman has teed me up nicely really with his 'nothing to see here' interview in the RL Express. Basically we need to stop moaning, stop bothering with the 'politics' and just enjoy the game like the simpletons we are. The letter should act as a nice repose if they bother giving it as much coverage as his verbal waffle this week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    The RFL Chairman has teed me up nicely really with his 'nothing to see here' interview in the RL Express. Basically we need to stop moaning, stop bothering with the 'politics' and just enjoy the game like the simpletons we are. The letter should act as a nice repose if they bother giving it as much coverage as his verbal waffle this week.
    I don’t suppose he explains how the game is going to grow at all levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I tend to agree with this. Ok, DHL may not have offered vast amounts but it's certainly a logo on a shirt that people can relate too, then they see the same logo on a United training strip and the thought process is obvious. That's the same with the average person as it is other companies/brands looking to sponsor successful teams.

    I don't go in for this demographics lark either. I appreciate RL fans might not be the most monied in the country but there's no reason why they can't aspire to brands such as Rolex, BMW or whatever other luxury brand you can think of. The other side of that is that's there's plenty of lower brow brands to approach without selling out to the likes of TW and Stowbarts (or not selling in that case). Again though, this for me is down to years of mismanagement while the Yorkshire Mafia lined their own nests to the detriment of the game as a whole.
    Not all union clubs have well known sponsors Newcastle for example are sponsored by a company that makes radiators

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    The RFL Chairman has teed me up nicely really with his 'nothing to see here' interview in the RL Express. Basically we need to stop moaning, stop bothering with the 'politics' and just enjoy the game like the simpletons we are. The letter should act as a nice repose if they bother giving it as much coverage as his verbal waffle this week.
    I honestly think there's a few just on this board that would run rings around those clowns business wise. Do they not have advisors?

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    Sorry , working in Mallaig at the moment , Wylye is a small wiltshire village but born in Rainford. John Fishwick.

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