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Thread: Scrum Half

  1. #1
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    Default Scrum Half

    Just a bit of a debate, Is having a good scrum half what makes the difference between having a good team and a great team.
    Is it coincidence that the Saints have enjoyed periods of dominance when they have had the best scrum halves we have ever had. Murph and Bishop in the sixties and Goulding and Long in the Nineties/noughties.
    We have had great players in other positions over the years but only when we have had a great scrum half have we been dominant.
    Other evidence ,remember a couple of seasons back when we were the dominant team of the season until Newton did Long and we fell away to win nothing.
    Wigan dominated the eighties ,Edwards and Gregory scrum halves.
    GB beat New Zealand in a series for the first time in yonks ,just when Burrow has started to realise the potential he has had for years.
    Got to be worth a heated arguement?

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Buddy's Avatar
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    I think your missing a big point.
    For murphy see karalius and prescott, for bishop see warlow and watson
    edward / gregory= platt and skerritt
    goulding/long = perellini, fairleigh, joynt, nickle etc etc

    you can have the best 6 or 7 in the world but without a psck he's irrelevant.

    just liik how many bad scrum halves have ran games because of the forward dominace their team had

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    George Coaches Organiser Saint Bert's Avatar
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    You need at least 1 footballing half back to function, for me it matters not if it is 6 or 7 as long as they run the game.

    Niether 6 or 7 can function behind a front 5 on the back foot, no matter how good they are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NP2
    I think your missing a big point.
    For murphy see karalius and prescott, for bishop see warlow and watson
    edward / gregory= platt and skerritt
    goulding/long = perellini, fairleigh, joynt, nickle etc etc

    you can have the best 6 or 7 in the world but without a psck he's irrelevant.

    just liik how many bad scrum halves have ran games because of the forward dominace their team had
    What he said!
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    think a good scrum half can direct you around the park but he needs a good pack to protect him

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    Quote Originally Posted by pricey73
    think a good scrum half can direct you around the park but he needs a good pack to protect him
    Saints attacking prowess in recent times has been based around quick play the balls and running from or around dummy half. This doesn't negate the need for a quality scrum half, but it does mean they become less important.

    When the play the ball is slowed down then it becomes difficult to steam roller opposition with breaks around the ruck. We almost always struggle in this situation because we aren't used unlocking defences in a tight slower paced game.

    It is in my opinion also the major difference between Australia and Great Britain. Most of the games we win, are games with a fast play the ball. Games which are refereed in a more NRL way, with a slower play the ball, require the half backs to be more creative and we get shown up. Any errors are magnified, and the gulf in class looks intimidating.

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    In The West Stand Sausalito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NP2
    I think your missing a big point.
    For murphy see karalius and prescott, for bishop see warlow and watson
    edward / gregory= platt and skerritt
    goulding/long = perellini, fairleigh, joynt, nickle etc etc

    you can have the best 6 or 7 in the world but without a psck he's irrelevant.

    just liik how many bad scrum halves have ran games because of the forward dominace their team had
    Can you name a bad scrum half in a dominant team??????

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    Quote Originally Posted by amywinehouse
    Can you name a bad scrum half in a dominant team??????


    Would a top team employ a scrum half who was second rate?...

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    Quote Originally Posted by OVAL AND OWT
    Would a top team employ a scrum half who was second rate?...
    Saints have done it

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    Quote Originally Posted by amywinehouse
    Saints have done it

    Are you referring to Sean Long or Matty Smith? You could hardly describe Sean Long as second rate(just take a look at his career stats---has any other SH in SL emulated his success). True, he his coming to the end of his career and he has been beset with injuries recently.
    Matty Smith is on a learning curve, and time alone will tell whether he has the class follow in Long's footsteps.

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    i agree fully that you need a good pack to bulid a platform but some great scrum halves can raise a poor pack to play above themselves.

    case one: wire and andrew johns
    case two: goons and trent barrett

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter soutos tash
    i agree fully that you need a good pack to bulid a platform but some great scrum halves can raise a poor pack to play above themselves.

    case one: wire and andrew johns
    case two: goons and trent barrett
    Except Trent Barrett plays stand off

  13. #13
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    If a team wants to win things they have to have at least one good half back. As said earlier it doesn't matter if its a scrum half or stand off as some of the most famous half backs have played in either posiiton e.g Murphy. In more recent times I can think of Sean Edwards, Tommy Martyn and Jamie Rooney switching between the two positions.

    Regardless of how good they are its the pack that offers them the protection to do the things they do. You only have to look at the likes of Brisbane to see how well Lockyer is protected by their pack. Without the pack getting on the front foot the rest of the team generally gets smashed by the opposition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amywinehouse
    Can you name a bad scrum half in a dominant team??????
    Dereck Fox & Paul Harkin spring to mind from the past, both were average players at best.

    What about Paul Deacon? put him in a team with a weak pack (like last year) and what happens.

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    In The South Stand peter soutos tash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu M
    Except Trent Barrett plays stand off
    sorry its been a long day but to be honest i never really noticed him

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter soutos tash
    sorry its been a long day but to be honest i never really noticed him
    I know, sorry mate just could not resist. Someone else would have done it eventually!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoffy
    Dereck Fox & Paul Harkin spring to mind from the past, both were average players at best.

    What about Paul Deacon? put him in a team with a weak pack (like last year) and what happens.
    Can't agree with you about Deryck Fox.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Despondent Dave
    Can't agree with you about Deryck Fox.
    The Paul Deacon of the 80's?

    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Despondent Dave
    Can't agree with you about Deryck Fox.
    I never rated him - like Deacon he was a union stand off masquerading as a league player, always the cleanest jersey on the pitch and flattered to decieve

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