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Thread: Royal Mail

  1. #26
    Starting A Programme Collection alf wayliner's Avatar
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    Here's one for you, posties in Liverpool turned up for work at 5:30 this morning, which is their normal start time, but management wouldn't allow them to start work till 6:00 as this is the time that RM want to introduce under the flexibility arrangements. So here we have the Posties looking to get in there and get started working and getting mail out as soon as possible to the hard pressed punters and RM won't let them get on with it, in effect imposing their unagreed terms despite a formal industrial dispute. Result is the posties have now walked out on unnofficial action ,which I think may well spread. There is also a side issue about taking mail out in private vehicles as well but the start time is the main issue.
    History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce. (Karl Marx)
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    Got A Season Ticket Birchwood Saint Sean's Avatar
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    i get disability for depression if i can get it why turn it down after all theres theres far worst spongers than me if the goverment offered you 70 quid a month no quibbles would you go no ta im too pround plus i get that no matter how many hours i work
    boo im back

  3. #28
    In The South Stand Sadfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alf wayliner
    Here's one for you, posties in Liverpool turned up for work at 5:30 this morning, which is their normal start time, but management wouldn't allow them to start work till 6:00 as this is the time that RM want to introduce under the flexibility arrangements. So here we have the Posties looking to get in there and get started working and getting mail out as soon as possible to the hard pressed punters and RM won't let them get on with it, in effect imposing their unagreed terms despite a formal industrial dispute. Result is the posties have now walked out on unnofficial action ,which I think may well spread. There is also a side issue about taking mail out in private vehicles as well but the start time is the main issue.
    You know Alf, i've known you a long time and respect your views, but here's a little ditty for you, I work for a international bank, if me and my colleagues decided to strike and your wages didnt go in for a week or maybe two, or all your bills didnt get paid for a couple of weeks or you couldnt draw any money out of the holes in the walls or buy any food? how would you feel?

    Of course, I don't go on strike because i'd get the sack for not coming into work, of course, when people in my industry get made redundant due to outsourcing overseas or the like no one seems to care.

    Now I do care about people and the livelihoods but imo striking isnt the answer, i'm firmly of the opinion that if my employer wants to alter my hours or place of work, then they can, when all said and done i'm working for them, if I don't like it then, I have to go and work elsewhere.

    This is just something people in my industry have to put up with, our unions are cack and to be honest always have been and therefore its up to us employees to chose "is this the employer I want to work for?".

    If I had my way i'd have posties working through the evening delivering because the amount of times i'm at work when they wanna deliver my tickets is a joke.

    As I said, I don't like emplyers walking all over their employees, but imagine the mess the country would be in if people in my line of work went on strike. We don't because we know it isn't fair to those people who rely on us. The Royal MAil is already struggling to break into this century, its only a matter of time before it goes under , and the current crisis is depening its situation and there is a real possiblity that the company could go bust and "everyone" will be out of work, the company is trying to streamline its operation and make it profitable so it can survive and grow into the future.

    I'm really of the opinion that striking is the last bastion of 70s britain, it serves no purpose except putting out the general public, and how much is it costing the posties in wages? Does it weigh up that they'll lose 2 weeks wages for the sake of coming in 15 mins later each day?

    I doubt it does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birchwood Saint Sean
    i get disability for depression if i can get it why turn it down after all theres theres far worst spongers than me if the goverment offered you 70 quid a month no quibbles would you go no ta im too pround plus i get that no matter how many hours i work
    just ignore the knob mate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Despondent Dave
    Why is it all your stupid posts are after midnight? Or am I answering my own question here?
    Watch out, you'll get sued for saying that.


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    George Coaches Organiser Saint Bert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadfish
    Now I do care about people and the livelihoods but imo striking isnt the answer, i'm firmly of the opinion that if my employer wants to alter my hours or place of work, then they can, when all said and done i'm working for them, if I don't like it then, I have to go and work elsewhere.

    Not everyone has the skill set to be able to have their pick of jobs

    This is just something people in my industry have to put up with, our unions are cack and to be honest always have been and therefore its up to us employees to chose "is this the employer I want to work for?".

    A union is only as strong as it's members, your attitude if followed by all your collegues is the reason you have a cack union.

    If I had my way i'd have posties working through the evening delivering because the amount of times i'm at work when they wanna deliver my tickets is a joke.

    I'd love to see your face being woken at 4 AM for a recorded delivery! lol

    As I said, I don't like emplyers walking all over their employees, but imagine the mess the country would be in if people in my line of work went on strike. We don't because we know it isn't fair to those people who rely on us.

    So you wouldn't consider industrial action of any kind should you feel stringly enough aggrieved because it wouldn't be fair to the general public? Sorry Paul that's bo11ocks.

    The Royal Mail is already struggling to break into this century, its only a matter of time before it goes under , and the current crisis is depening its situation and there is a real possiblity that the company could go bust and "everyone" will be out of work, the company is trying to streamline its operation and make it profitable so it can survive and grow into the future.

    That maybe the case, but without getting into a debate on the "unfair restrictions" on Royal mail is a side issue to the reason for strike action. If it was purely about pay and an unreasonable increase request I would agree with you but it isn't. Would you agree now to work 5 years loger than you planned for a reduced pension? I doubt it, but you have already said, they can just get another job if they don't like it, even if they are approaching 60, it's easy.

    I'm really of the opinion that striking is the last bastion of 70s britain, it serves no purpose except putting out the general public, and how much is it costing the posties in wages? Does it weigh up that they'll lose 2 weeks wages for the sake of coming in 15 mins later each day?

    If the working classes would have had the same view 100 years ago, you would still be doing a 60 hour week with a weeks holiday if you were lucky instead of holding all the privilages your position does.

    I doubt it does.
    Rant over, I just wish that this everyman for himself I don't care about anyone else attitude that has become the norm in this country since the mid 80's would go away.

    Perhaps when the b1tch dies, but then again. Don't forget people, street party when it happens, DIv and Alf ar bringing the sausage rolls. lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Bert
    Rant over, I just wish that this everyman for himself I don't care about anyone else attitude that has become the norm in this country since the mid 80's would go away.
    So if I am happy with my contract terms why should I be bullied into strike action because other people are unhappy? Some people will make the best of what they have and others will ALWAYS moan no matter what. Why should I (and more importantly my kids) suffer because of the moaners. If someone has been dismissed unfairly or is being victimised then yes, Im all for solidarity and looking after each other, however some of the arguments between employers and employees are petty and as a rational person I shouldnt suffer.

  8. #33
    Starting A Programme Collection alf wayliner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadfish
    You know Alf, i've known you a long time and respect your views, but here's a little ditty for you, I work for a international bank, if me and my colleagues decided to strike and your wages didnt go in for a week or maybe two, or all your bills didnt get paid for a couple of weeks or you couldnt draw any money out of the holes in the walls or buy any food? how would you feel?

    Of course, I don't go on strike because i'd get the sack for not coming into work, of course, when people in my industry get made redundant due to outsourcing overseas or the like no one seems to care.

    Now I do care about people and the livelihoods but imo striking isnt the answer, i'm firmly of the opinion that if my employer wants to alter my hours or place of work, then they can, when all said and done i'm working for them, if I don't like it then, I have to go and work elsewhere.

    This is just something people in my industry have to put up with, our unions are cack and to be honest always have been and therefore its up to us employees to chose "is this the employer I want to work for?".

    If I had my way i'd have posties working through the evening delivering because the amount of times i'm at work when they wanna deliver my tickets is a joke.

    As I said, I don't like emplyers walking all over their employees, but imagine the mess the country would be in if people in my line of work went on strike. We don't because we know it isn't fair to those people who rely on us. The Royal MAil is already struggling to break into this century, its only a matter of time before it goes under , and the current crisis is depening its situation and there is a real possiblity that the company could go bust and "everyone" will be out of work, the company is trying to streamline its operation and make it profitable so it can survive and grow into the future.

    I'm really of the opinion that striking is the last bastion of 70s britain, it serves no purpose except putting out the general public, and how much is it costing the posties in wages? Does it weigh up that they'll lose 2 weeks wages for the sake of coming in 15 mins later each day?

    I doubt it does.
    Paul, if I had my way we'd have no need for bankers - international, merchant or whatever, maybe I'm just a stick in the mud marxist (all right no maybe about it really )

    Anyway am I reading what you say wrong, are you saying that we shouldn't stand up for our rights, that when the employer has the ultimate sanction of removing you from your employment that you too shouldn't have the legal right to react in a like manner. Are you saying that because an employer has money and power they should be allowed to take whatever action they see fit on the basis that profit is everything. Are you saying that because you and your colleagues won't stand up for yourselves that others, who are prepared to stand together to defend their RIGHTS, shouldn't do it


    I currently represent a number of people who work on IP maintenance and setup (for a large international banking company BTW) half their work has been remote sourced to India and we agreed that on the basis that there would be guarantees about other work areas. Suddenly the employer has now decided to unilaterally ship a significant chunk of the remaining work, without notice never mind consultation or agreement. So I am fully supportive of the defence against jobs being shipped out to the lowest cost region.

    If you went on strike for legitimate reasons I'd be the first to back you to the extent that I'd be happy to put up with the hardships. Perhaps if the finance sector could actually get together and have some sense of unity it would be the one area that could actually bring some sense into a world that wants to have a free market place and yet insists on protectionism and interventionism when it suits. If we are serious about competition in the postal industry why is the royal mail lumbered with the universal service obligation? as long as that is in place it can never hope to be truly "profitable" and big business contracts will always subsidise your delivery. The royal mail is not a company as such, it is a wholly government owned entitiy, it will not go bust due to the fact that there is no profit in setting mail delivery services in rural areas the same as the cable companies have a density threshold where they won't cable due to lack of a chance to make money, the profitable areas of the business will be given to private companies and the rest will be subsidised by us. But once again I have to say that Royal Mail for many years has had a holiday from paying into the staff pension fund to the tune of billions of pounds. Money that could have been invested in to the service years ago, now RM want to alter the terms and conditions of the pension fund and, in effect, make the staff pay. Why should someone who has a legal contract with somone suddenly have that contract rewritten without regard. What would happen if I said the same thing to my bank, sorry Mr Lloydstsb but I'm not paying the interest on my credit card that I agreed in that contract I signed!


    The attitude that says the employer can do what they want is a road to anarchy, it says that there is no protection in law for anyone, a contract isn't a contract. You're saying that I can accept a job and plan a life based around receiving an agreed wage and then the employer can turn round and say "sorry mate you're not getting it", now my bank would love that wouldn't they all those people caught up in the race to the bottom on an ever decreasing wage and conditions spiral, defaulting on mortgages.


    As I've said before if you beleive a postie, who is on such a poor basic wage that means that the only way to have any savings for retirement is his pension, should suddenly find that he is going to be forced to work beyond his CONTRACTUAL retirement age and see his benefits reduced has the option of quitting and finding somewhere else where he can acrue similar benefits then you've gravely misread the employment market. 5 years loss of pension at 3 or 4 grand a year plus additional pension contributions for those 5 years perhaps another 5 grand and add in any loss of accruals and it amounts to a considerable sum of money that they are losing.

    Ultimatley no one in CWU is denying the modernisation aspects and we realise that there will be a price to pay in regards to loss of jobs and changes in working practices and new technology, we aren't looking to shirk the responsiblity that lies with the employees what we are saying is that the staff should not have to pay the cost for years and years of mismanagement and under investment. Let the Royal Mail compete equally with private enterprise or don't let anyone compete, cherry picking of profitable areas of business is not a free market.
    History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce. (Karl Marx)
    Third as a cruel joke, fourth as a kick in the nads, fifth as a mortifyingly bad nightmare! (Alf Wayliner)

  9. #34
    George Coaches Organiser Saint Bert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest
    So if I am happy with my contract terms why should I be bullied into strike action because other people are unhappy? Some people will make the best of what they have and others will ALWAYS moan no matter what. Why should I (and more importantly my kids) suffer because of the moaners. If someone has been dismissed unfairly or is being victimised then yes, Im all for solidarity and looking after each other, however some of the arguments between employers and employees are petty and as a rational person I shouldnt suffer.
    Isn't that the point of a ballot?

    Or are you advocating the I'm allright at this moment in time Jack, feck you, but will you please help me when I have a problem theory, it would appear so.
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    Starting A Programme Collection alf wayliner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest
    So if I am happy with my contract terms why should I be bullied into strike action because other people are unhappy? Some people will make the best of what they have and others will ALWAYS moan no matter what. Why should I (and more importantly my kids) suffer because of the moaners. If someone has been dismissed unfairly or is being victimised then yes, Im all for solidarity and looking after each other, however some of the arguments between employers and employees are petty and as a rational person I shouldnt suffer.
    The simple thing here is that the CWU had a legally constituted ballot that reurned a yes vote for industrial action, a democratic decision (we do live in a democracy don't we?) taken by the membership. They are enacting their rights to with hold their labour hence they aren't being bullied except by RM insisting on change without negotiation!
    History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce. (Karl Marx)
    Third as a cruel joke, fourth as a kick in the nads, fifth as a mortifyingly bad nightmare! (Alf Wayliner)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Bert
    Perhaps when the b1tch dies, but then again. Don't forget people, street party when it happens, DIv and Alf ar bringing the sausage rolls. lol
    I'll sort out a mobile disco.


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    Quote Originally Posted by alf wayliner
    The simple thing here is that the CWU had a legally constituted ballot that reurned a yes vote for industrial action, a democratic decision (we do live in a democracy don't we?) taken by the membership. They are enacting their rights to with hold their labour hence they aren't being bullied except by RM insisting on change without negotiation!
    and if an individual still wants to go into work because they are either not in the union or dont agree with what is happening they are in no way intimidated or critisised for not sharing the group philosophy?

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    Starting A Programme Collection alf wayliner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest
    and if an individual still wants to go into work because they are either not in the union or dont agree with what is happening they are in no way intimidated or critisised for not sharing the group philosophy?
    Criticism isn't bullying. Intimidation is illegal.

    If you want to go into work then go in to work, if you are happy with what you are getting then don't worry be happy. No one can victimise you for it, they might have questions for you but they can't deny you your right to work. BTW I assume you're a postie!
    History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce. (Karl Marx)
    Third as a cruel joke, fourth as a kick in the nads, fifth as a mortifyingly bad nightmare! (Alf Wayliner)

  14. #39
    In The South Stand Sadfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alf wayliner
    Criticism isn't bullying. Intimidation is illegal.

    If you want to go into work then go in to work, if you are happy with what you are getting then don't worry be happy. No one can victimise you for it, they might have questions for you but they can't deny you your right to work. BTW I assume you're a postie!
    there is no way you'd realistically be able to go into work, in my experience, of 20 years in an industry the unions have been either bullies or shirkers.

    I'm not saying all union reps are the same, but thats my experience.

    With regards to my earlier point, the way to make companies work for the indivudual is for individuals to have balls and not be trodden on, if you are then go work somewhere else, I don't buy this "skill set" idea, it's all about working hard for what you want,, I drive 70 mins each way to work, and have worked all over the UK to get to the position I am now, most postie's can do other jobs, hundreds of different jobs, the amount of people I see who can't use a computer one day to being able to build websites 6 months later is a prime example of that.

    I'm fully supportive of people fighting for better rights, for more comfortable working hours, for better work/life balances, but as soon as someone mentions "strike" it reminds me of when you are a kid and you throw all your toys away to get some pudding.

    Strikes might have been effective in 1970 but in 2007 they just look petty to the vast majority of the general public.

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    In The South Stand Sadfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Bert
    Perhaps when the b1tch dies, but then again. Don't forget people, street party when it happens, DIv and Alf ar bringing the sausage rolls. lol
    You need to look to the future not blame people from the past, sher won 3 general elections remember, and whilst I didn't care for her that party dragged this country kicking and screaming into the life style we have today, they ended up having no choice in the end either. I'm not a blue and not a thatcherite but I can see that we would have been dead and buried as a nation if the NUM had had their way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest
    and if an individual still wants to go into work because they are either not in the union or dont agree with what is happening they are in no way intimidated or critisised for not sharing the group philosophy?
    Sometimes you have just got to do what's best for everyone as a whole, even if you do not want to get involved and not be such a selfish b'stard.

    I wonder where we would all be now if all those brave men in 39 would have said stuff Poland and the rest if Europe, we are fine at the moment,nothing to do with me.

    I have stood on a picket line and in times like that you soon find out who you can and can't rely on, and that doesn't just mean on that particular occasion.

    I hope that you are never in the position were you need to rely on your workmates, because if they know this is your attitude you may be just left high and dry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadfish
    whilst I didn't care for her that party dragged this country kicking and screaming into the life style we have today.
    Much of what is wrong with society can be placed at the blame of "Everyman/Woman for themselves" culture, a culture which was nurtured and thrived during the 80's.

    The parents of today and now their children know no other way and it is only going to get worse.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sadfish
    You know Alf, i've known you a long time and respect your views, but here's a little ditty for you, I work for a international bank, if me and my colleagues decided to strike and your wages didnt go in for a week or maybe two, or all your bills didnt get paid for a couple of weeks or you couldnt draw any money out of the holes in the walls or buy any food? how would you feel?

    Of course, I don't go on strike because i'd get the sack for not coming into work, of course, when people in my industry get made redundant due to outsourcing overseas or the like no one seems to care.

    Now I do care about people and the livelihoods but imo striking isnt the answer, i'm firmly of the opinion that if my employer wants to alter my hours or place of work, then they can, when all said and done i'm working for them, if I don't like it then, I have to go and work elsewhere.

    This is just something people in my industry have to put up with, our unions are cack and to be honest always have been and therefore its up to us employees to chose "is this the employer I want to work for?".

    If I had my way i'd have posties working through the evening delivering because the amount of times i'm at work when they wanna deliver my tickets is a joke.

    As I said, I don't like emplyers walking all over their employees, but imagine the mess the country would be in if people in my line of work went on strike. We don't because we know it isn't fair to those people who rely on us. The Royal MAil is already struggling to break into this century, its only a matter of time before it goes under , and the current crisis is depening its situation and there is a real possiblity that the company could go bust and "everyone" will be out of work, the company is trying to streamline its operation and make it profitable so it can survive and grow into the future.

    I'm really of the opinion that striking is the last bastion of 70s britain, it serves no purpose except putting out the general public, and how much is it costing the posties in wages? Does it weigh up that they'll lose 2 weeks wages for the sake of coming in 15 mins later each day?

    I doubt it does.
    I can't be bothered getting involved in this debate because it would take up all day and night, however, despite reading the subsequent posts, I must go on record as saying that this is the one I agree 100% with.

    People can shout at me all they wish. This more or less exactly sums up everything I would want to say on the issue.

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    Its nice when you can have the choice!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by alf wayliner
    Criticism isn't bullying. Intimidation is illegal.
    BTW I assume you're a postie!
    No, not at all. And dont get me wrong, Im not critisising their actions as I dont know the full (or any) facts about what is going on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Bert
    Sometimes you have just got to do what's best for everyone as a whole, even if you do not want to get involved and not be such a selfish b'stard.

    I wonder where we would all be now if all those brave men in 39 would have said stuff Poland and the rest if Europe, we are fine at the moment,nothing to do with me.

    I have stood on a picket line and in times like that you soon find out who you can and can't rely on, and that doesn't just mean on that particular occasion.

    I hope that you are never in the position were you need to rely on your workmates, because if they know this is your attitude you may be just left high and dry.
    Rubbish.

    Its fine taking the moral high ground if you have less to lose. It might be fine for someone who rents a flat and only has an expendature that involves going to the match the pub or the bookies. What about the poor bloke with 3 kids and a mortgage. Why should he risk his job and also lose money in the process especially if he has no gripes with his conditions and terms of work? If anything he is less selfish because he is putting the needs of his family (other people) first. Conversely,the people without his resposibilities are being selfish by expecting him to fight a battle for thier gripes in which he has more to lose than them.

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  23. #48
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    Try working in retail. Then you would have something to complain about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakespeare
    Try working in retail. Then you would have something to complain about.
    Perhaps if the people in retail had done something about there conditions and pay years ago it would not be so bad!
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Greatest
    Rubbish.

    Its fine taking the moral high ground if you have less to lose. It might be fine for someone who rents a flat and only has an expendature that involves going to the match the pub or the bookies. What about the poor bloke with 3 kids and a mortgage. Why should he risk his job and also lose money in the process especially if he has no gripes with his conditions and terms of work? If anything he is less selfish because he is putting the needs of his family (other people) first. Conversely,the people without his resposibilities are being selfish by expecting him to fight a battle for thier gripes in which he has more to lose than them.
    So your advocating sacrifice but only if you can financially afford to. Bo11ocks man!

    Does this mean that if you were in trouble at work you would only expect back up from those without families, your talking sh1t.

    It's one in all in or there is no point.

    Thanks feck I have never had to rely on the back up of some of the spineless feckers on here!
    The George for match day drinks and away coaches.

    Supporting us supporting Saints.

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