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Thread: Dream Team

  1. #26
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    You also get a different team if you go by the scoring in the Super League Fantasy League from the Betfred Super League website (granted, the more they've played, the higher score they are likely to get, but I thought that was the point - it was judged over the whole season)

    Welsby
    French
    Watkins
    Wardle
    Charnley
    Williams
    Smith
    Vaughan
    O'Connor
    Amone
    Farrell
    Ashurst
    Smith

    Is it a panel that decides who makes the Dream Team?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Beamo View Post
    Apparently Saints fans call dream team “Ridiculous” – St Helens fans furious with Dream Team snub

    https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/ridic...am-snub-82544/
    I'm not sure any Saints fans are particularly aggrieved about only having one player in, we have always been a team first and foremost and a lot of our usual suspects have spent a fair amount of time on the sideline. What all super league fans outside of Leigh seem united on though is that Leigh don't deserve 5 players in there!
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    I'm not sure any Saints fans are particularly aggrieved about only having one player in, we have always been a team first and foremost and a lot of our usual suspects have spent a fair amount of time on the sideline. What all super league fans outside of Leigh seem united on though is that Leigh don't deserve 5 players in there!
    I'm not sure about this.

    I think is is very easy indeed to make a case for Charnley, Lam, Ipape and Asiata to be in there on merit. Then you have Amone who you can also make a case for.

    They then have a bunch of journeymen who the above have dragged to the achievements of this year. I don't think it's anything like as excessive as others think TBH.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    I'm not sure about this.

    I think is is very easy indeed to make a case for Charnley, Lam, Ipape and Asiata to be in there on merit. Then you have Amone who you can also make a case for.

    They then have a bunch of journeymen who the above have dragged to the achievements of this year. I don't think it's anything like as excessive as others think TBH.
    Sorry, Miski deserves it over Charnley and Smithies over Asiata, and thats a Saints fan choosing Wigan players. Lees, Bryne, Bousquet would all be ahead of Amone. I would also have Roby over Ipape, but assuming that would get me accused of bias I would go for Parcell (HKR are woefully under-represented). Only one who is there and inarguable is Lam, which would be reasonable for a team finishing 5th.

    Welsby
    Miski Wardle SKD Johnstone
    French Lam
    Vaughan Parcell Bousquet
    Whitley Batchelor
    Smithies

    Wigan (4), Catalans (3), Saints (2), HKR (2), Leigh (1), Warrington (1) seems far more reasonable given the table.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Sorry, Miski deserves it over Charnley and Smithies over Asiata, and thats a Saints fan choosing Wigan players. Lees, Bryne, Bousquet would all be ahead of Amone. I would also have Roby over Ipape, but assuming that would get me accused of bias I would go for Parcell (HKR are woefully under-represented). Only one who is there and inarguable is Lam, which would be reasonable for a team finishing 5th.

    Welsby
    Miski Wardle SKD Johnstone
    French Lam
    Vaughan Parcell Bousquet
    Whitley Batchelor
    Smithies

    Wigan (4), Catalans (3), Saints (2), HKR (2), Leigh (1), Warrington (1) seems far more reasonable given the table.
    I tend to agree with some of those, the problem with the 5 Leigh Players is that they have been judged on the first half of the season ana also the challenge cup period when they were on form. But this is a Superleague Dream Team over the full Superleague season, the second half of Superleague the likes of Lam, Ipape and Asiata havn't done all that much and thats one of the reasons they have won only 2 of their last 5 games.

    For me Sironen is the best second rower in Superleague by a fair margin in defence and attack, but just not played enough games.
    Last edited by STIDDY; 25th September 2023 at 15:46.

  6. #31
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    Love Rugby league alternative dream
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    I'm not sure about this.

    I think is is very easy indeed to make a case for Charnley, Lam, Ipape and Asiata to be in there on merit. Then you have Amone who you can also make a case for.

    They then have a bunch of journeymen who the above have dragged to the achievements of this year. I don't think it's anything like as excessive as others think TBH.
    Absolutely agree with you. I don't think there is any of them that don't deserve their spot. The four you mention were pretty much shoo-ins. Amone was the only one that could potentially have not been picked.

    Leigh have had one of those seasons where individuals have been outstanding and, as you say, the others have supported them very well. Without those four, though, they'd have been in a relegation battle. They've all been immense apart for a little bit of burn-out post Wembley.

    I'm really struggling to make a case for any of our players bar Welsby. Maybe James Bell, but that's it.
    THIS YEAR LENDING SUPPORT TO:- St. Helens RLFC, Manchester City, Celtic, Alemannia Aachen, Steps 1 to 6 Non-League Football

  8. #33
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    In all honesty I couldn’t give a toss who does & who doesn’t get in ‘The Dream Team’.
    It is a manufactured load of rubbish. Just like Man of Steel in current guise & Coach of the year.
    Just look at the history of it all. Quite often it was voted by journalists trying to come from left field to make out they knew more than the average fan by selecting someone who had a good season in a shit tea that never won owt. I’ll save my plaudits for the important things that matter winning trophies . So cudos so far goes to Saints World Club Champions. Leigh challenge cup winners & The pies for the LLS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Sorry, Miski deserves it over Charnley and Smithies over Asiata, and thats a Saints fan choosing Wigan players. Lees, Bryne, Bousquet would all be ahead of Amone. I would also have Roby over Ipape, but assuming that would get me accused of bias I would go for Parcell (HKR are woefully under-represented). Only one who is there and inarguable is Lam, which would be reasonable for a team finishing 5th.

    Welsby
    Miski Wardle SKD Johnstone
    French Lam
    Vaughan Parcell Bousquet
    Whitley Batchelor
    Smithies

    Wigan (4), Catalans (3), Saints (2), HKR (2), Leigh (1), Warrington (1) seems far more reasonable given the table.
    Smithies over Asiata?!? Absolutely no way. Asiata is a cracking player full of skill, Smithies is a limited workhorse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Absolutely agree with you. I don't think there is any of them that don't deserve their spot. The four you mention were pretty much shoo-ins. Amone was the only one that could potentially have not been picked.

    Leigh have had one of those seasons where individuals have been outstanding and, as you say, the others have supported them very well. Without those four, though, they'd have been in a relegation battle. They've all been immense apart for a little bit of burn-out post Wembley.

    I'm really struggling to make a case for any of our players bar Welsby. Maybe James Bell, but that's it.
    Matty Lees. He's been incredible for us, sets the tone defensively and is vital for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Matty Lees. He's been incredible for us, sets the tone defensively and is vital for us.
    Siro would have been a certainty had he played more games. I'd also have Percy over both SKD and Wardle but same issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    Siro would have been a certainty had he played more games. I'd also have Percy over both SKD and Wardle but same issue.
    Think Batchelor deserves a shout as well - hes actually only lost 2 games all season (Catalans away and Hull away) - been incredibly important for us, in both attack and defence, but only played 16 games this season so rules him out.

    It unfortunately highlights how much game time some of our most important players have missed this season. Makinson missing a month probably cost him being higher up the try charts as well.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    Smithies over Asiata?!? Absolutely no way. Asiata is a cracking player full of skill, Smithies is a limited workhorse.
    I wouldn't let Smithies into the back row of a cinema. He has no class at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    I'm not sure about this.

    I think is is very easy indeed to make a case for Charnley, Lam, Ipape and Asiata to be in there on merit. Then you have Amone who you can also make a case for.

    They then have a bunch of journeymen who the above have dragged to the achievements of this year. I don't think it's anything like as excessive as others think TBH.
    those 4 - Charnley, Lam, Ipape and Asiata would be in our first choice 17 this season no doubt, and other than Charnley probably Wigan and Catalans' teams

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo8 View Post
    those 4 - Charnley, Lam, Ipape and Asiata would be in our first choice 17 this season no doubt, and other than Charnley probably Wigan and Catalans' teams
    I agree...

    Lam has been the best 7 in SL this year.

    Ipape the best hooker. He misses a lot of tackles, but he's very dangerous running the ball out of dummy half.

    Asiata very good at 13. Especially his ball playing.

    On Charnley, I think he deserves a spot as well. Not just his tries, but he's top 4 for metres made as well.

    Difficult to argue with Saints only having one player in Welsby in there. And worth saying and sure this will ruffle a few feathers on here, but not sure Welsby makes full back if Field hadn't missed a big chunk of the season. That's when you look at the stats.

    https://www.superleague.co.uk/stats/player-stats
    *Not to be confused with Mike Stephenson, MBE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    I agree...

    Lam has been the best 7 in SL this year.

    Ipape the best hooker. He misses a lot of tackles, but he's very dangerous running the ball out of dummy half.

    Asiata very good at 13. Especially his ball playing.

    On Charnley, I think he deserves a spot as well. Not just his tries, but he's top 4 for metres made as well.

    Difficult to argue with Saints only having one player in Welsby in there. And worth saying and sure this will ruffle a few feathers on here, but not sure Welsby makes full back if Field hadn't missed a big chunk of the season. That's when you look at the stats.

    https://www.superleague.co.uk/stats/player-stats
    I'm sure that you're not saying that judgements should be made based on stats, it's much more nuanced than that....

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chessman View Post
    I'm sure that you're not saying that judgements should be made based on stats, it's much more nuanced than that....
    I take your point Chessman, but you can't ignore the stats. The objective data.

    The game is very data driven now and a big part of how the players performances are analysed these days.
    *Not to be confused with Mike Stephenson, MBE

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    I take your point Chessman, but you can't ignore the stats. The objective data.

    The game is very data driven now and a big part of how the players performances are analysed these days.
    And I will continue to trust my eyes. Jack Welsby is just an all round much better player than Jai Field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djh1972 View Post
    And I will continue to trust my eyes. Jack Welsby is just an all round much better player than Jai Field.
    Agreed !

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    Quote Originally Posted by djh1972 View Post
    And I will continue to trust my eyes. Jack Welsby is just an all round much better player than Jai Field.
    Respectfully, you're missing the point.
    *Not to be confused with Mike Stephenson, MBE

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    [QUOTE=Samphire15;887185]It's the Man of Steel all over again - decent performances in an "average" team being rewarded.
    Players overlooked because they turn in 8 or 9 out of 10 performances week on week but it's expected so they don't get the credit they deserve.[/QUOTE

    The story of Roby’s life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    Nonsense really ,isn't it? World Club Champions and joint table toppers on points only get one player in the Dream Team, yet the Challenge Cup winners.......................................
    Its a shame they have picked Welsby, if we become World Club Champions and Grand Final Winners and Leigh have 5 players and we have 0 players then they can rename it the Also Ran Dreaming Team.

    They do similar for the "Coach of the Year Award", usually they pick the league leaders for the award before the play offs. But last year they ignored Woolf achieving League Leaders and Grand Final Winners.

    Rookie Coach Wello could have achieved World Club Challenge Winners, Joint Top Super League and Grand Final Winners but coach of the year could go to the more experienced Lam based on the first half of the season only.

    I think we should have a Disciplinary Naughty Team....................we should be able to win that one.
    Last edited by STIDDY; 27th September 2023 at 08:41.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    Respectfully, you're missing the point.
    I don't think so. Data is of course perfect for seeing 'Top Try Scorer' etc as it is unarguable. But when you are judging 'Best Full Back' for example then there is no formula that will give the answer. What do you give more weight to ? Tries ? Try assists ? Tackles ? Kicks ? Different people will feel that certain attributes are more important than others and a lot of us still feel able to judge with our own eyes rather than be bound solely by looking at facts and figures.

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    Coach of the year nominations

    Lam, Peet and McNamara fair enough

    Paul Rowley? Taken Salford from 6th last year to 7th this year. What a joke.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  25. #50
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    Rowley is an odd one. Would personally have Willie Peters as the fourth nominee.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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