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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    I disagree with this.

    Holbrook changed things overnight at Saints. We were in exactly the same sort of situation as Wire are in now. The players' confidence was at rock bottom. The coaching had been abysmal, We were sinking fast. Then, within three months, we came within ten seconds of a Grand Final that we had a really good chance of winning.

    Having problems in the NRL is one thing. Coaching in a second-rate league like ours is something else.

    This is a great appointment for Warrington. As far as I'm concerned, he was the one who changed everything at this club after years of neglect. Woolf was fantastic for us, but he was the Paisley and Holbrook the Shankly.
    John Wilkin said recently that Holbrook lifted the mood of the team and made training fun again.

    That is a big improvement in itself but the effect in terms of winning matches wasn't as drastic

    The Saints squad he took over had about half a dozen players who were GF winners a few years earlier, the Wire squad haven't got that.

    Holbrook's second season has Ben Barba who was Brilliant to watch, we won the Lls but flopped in the CC semi final. I don't think Holbrook managed the Barba situation well at the end of that season, he had already decided he was going and it was affecting his game, a stronger coach would have benched him or dropped him completely.
    To be fair we're 4 years on from that and Holbrook has now got 4yrs more experience.

    For me if you want your team to play attractive Rugby then Holbrook is the man

    If you want to win trophies you need Woolf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    John Wilkin said recently that Holbrook lifted the mood of the team and made training fun again.

    That is a big improvement in itself but the effect in terms of winning matches wasn't as drastic

    The Saints squad he took over had about half a dozen players who were GF winners a few years earlier, the Wire squad haven't got that.

    Holbrook's second season has Ben Barba who was Brilliant to watch, we won the Lls but flopped in the CC semi final. I don't think Holbrook managed the Barba situation well at the end of that season, he had already decided he was going and it was affecting his game, a stronger coach would have benched him or dropped him completely.
    To be fair we're 4 years on from that and Holbrook has now got 4yrs more experience.

    For me if you want your team to play attractive Rugby then Holbrook is the man

    If you want to win trophies you need Woolf
    The 2019 Challenge Cup final was an absolute disaster, and we only got their after a struggling past Halifax in the semi final. We made hard work of the Super League Grand Final too against Salford that year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    I disagree with this.

    Holbrook changed things overnight at Saints. We were in exactly the same sort of situation as Wire are in now. The players' confidence was at rock bottom. The coaching had been abysmal, We were sinking fast. Then, within three months, we came within ten seconds of a Grand Final that we had a really good chance of winning.

    Having problems in the NRL is one thing. Coaching in a second-rate league like ours is something else.

    This is a great appointment for Warrington. As far as I'm concerned, he was the one who changed everything at this club after years of neglect. Woolf was fantastic for us, but he was the Paisley and Holbrook the Shankly.
    I agree that Holbrook's effect on Saints was profound and immediate, but I'm not sure the situation was the same as that at Wire. The KC years were absolutely dire, but I don't think I ever found myself doubting the application of the team; I think the players generally showed a lot of guts and determination in that period. It was a squad with some very good players (and a few average ones) who had been put in a straitjacket by their coach's wrong-headed approach to the game. I think that's why it was possible to make such a dramatic change so quickly. At Warrington I think the problem is more cultural: they are a team of quitters. That's not something that can be fixed overnight.

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    As much as I hate to say it - we need the likes of wire, Hull and Leeds to happen upon a formula to improve dramatically.

    A league with the big clubs firing is better for everyone.

    I think Holbrook will go well even just by bringing some positivity in the first instance.


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    https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/su...8ed-1691063913

    Latest from the Daily Telegraph Aus is that Holbrook has rejected Warrington. Weighing up assistant coach offers from Roosters and Bulldogs as he doesnít want to uproot his family from Aus. Hope this is true, especially after Wire fans have been getting so excited.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    As much as I hate to say it - we need the likes of wire, Hull and Leeds to happen upon a formula to improve dramatically.

    A league with the big clubs firing is better for everyone.

    I think Holbrook will go well even just by bringing some positivity in the first instance.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Looks now like he has turned them down, so he isn't the messiah they were looking for, but according to Warrington fans a naughty boy for leading them on and sending officials halfway across the world with bag loads of money. I believe they are now on the way to Burtonwood to speak to Alex Murphy (joke!)

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    Warrington were on absolute fire for the first 8 or 9 games until the McGuire situation split the dressing room in to 2 camps. Powell didnt have the man management to sort it out.

    Holbrook should be able to get that dressing room sorted

    EDIT: Just seen the above posts

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    If he's knocked them back as reports suggest, I personally am breathing a massive sigh of relief.

    Notwithstanding that he's a Saints favourite and it would have stung to see him coaching a rival, I've got very little doubt that he would have sorted them out.

    The parallels between us in 2017 and Warrington in 2023 are clear to see. He would have been a tailor-made appointment for them.

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    If this is true, I think this is the biggest L that Warrington have ever had as even their fans know they are crap, but even they got excited by all of this.

    They have been tweeting for the last 12 hours about how great he is with pictures of him with the SL trophy that he won with us FFS....only for him to turn them down with an eye watering amount of money on the table for him.

    Thank you Mrs Holbrook.

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    On a more serious note, their options outside of Holbrook are very limited...might have been better to stick with Powell.

    The betting before they took it down was:

    Adam O'Brien - 7/2
    Justin Morgan - 5/1
    Brett Hodgson - 6/1
    Richard Marshall - 7/1
    Shaun Wane - 10/1
    Tony Smith - 10/1
    Lee Briers - 12/1
    Michael Monaghan - 25/1
    Ian Watson - 25/1
    John Kear - 66/1
    Kevin Brown - 100/1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint View Post
    If he's knocked them back as reports suggest, I personally am breathing a massive sigh of relief.

    Notwithstanding that he's a Saints favourite and it would have stung to see him coaching a rival, I've got very little doubt that he would have sorted them out.

    The parallels between us in 2017 and Warrington in 2023 are clear to see. He would have been a tailor-made appointment for them.
    I need to back myself sometimes. Look like even more of an idiot than I did last night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
    On a more serious note, their options outside of Holbrook are very limited...might have been better to stick with Powell.

    The betting before they took it down was:

    Adam O'Brien - 7/2
    Justin Morgan - 5/1
    Brett Hodgson - 6/1
    Richard Marshall - 7/1
    Shaun Wane - 10/1
    Tony Smith - 10/1
    Lee Briers - 12/1
    Michael Monaghan - 25/1
    Ian Watson - 25/1
    John Kear - 66/1
    Kevin Brown - 100/1
    If he becomes available I would love to see Briers as our attack coach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
    On a more serious note, their options outside of Holbrook are very limited...might have been better to stick with Powell.

    The betting before they took it down was:

    Adam O'Brien - 7/2
    Justin Morgan - 5/1
    Brett Hodgson - 6/1
    Richard Marshall - 7/1
    Shaun Wane - 10/1
    Tony Smith - 10/1
    Lee Briers - 12/1
    Michael Monaghan - 25/1
    Ian Watson - 25/1
    John Kear - 66/1
    Kevin Brown - 100/1
    Surprised Rowley isn't on that list, I suspect he'll be the option they chase assuming Holbrook and Briers don't fancy relocating.

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    Problem is again that Warrington are looking for a "Name"

    I doubt if many of us had heard of Holbrook before he came over. Similarly with Woolf, I knew the Tongan national side had done well but I couldn't have named the coach.

    Instead of throwing money at a name they need to find a young up and coming coach who is hungry for success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint View Post
    Surprised Rowley isn't on that list, I suspect he'll be the option they chase assuming Holbrook and Briers don't fancy relocating.
    Yep, I'd imagine that Rowley will end up getting it.

    Briers would be mad to take it, if offered. He seems to be earning himself a good reputation, going back to Wire could rapidly destroy that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    Problem is again that Warrington are looking for a "Name"

    I doubt if many of us had heard of Holbrook before he came over. Similarly with Woolf, I knew the Tongan national side had done well but I couldn't have named the coach.

    Instead of throwing money at a name they need to find a young up and coming coach who is hungry for success.


    I think this is spot on.

    They're all about the publicity. Look at some of the retirees they've signed over the SL years, with the Inglis one being the 'highlight'.
    He's not the Messiah, he's a naughty boy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
    On a more serious note, their options outside of Holbrook are very limited...might have been better to stick with Powell.

    The betting before they took it down was:

    Adam O'Brien - 7/2
    Justin Morgan - 5/1
    Brett Hodgson - 6/1
    Richard Marshall - 7/1
    Shaun Wane - 10/1
    Tony Smith - 10/1
    Lee Briers - 12/1
    Michael Monaghan - 25/1
    Ian Watson - 25/1
    John Kear - 66/1
    Kevin Brown - 100/1
    Slim pickings indeed. Watson hasn't done enough at Huddersfield to be considered. Briers is making a great reputation for himself in Aus. Marshall only experience as 1st team coach is at Halifax. And I'm sure Tony Smith after his time at wire took a sabbatical from coaching For a while as he felt disillusioned with the game and fell out of love with coaching. Think Rowley will be available soon enough and is probably the most realistic appointment at this stage. Wire have the money to buy out contract and salford need the cash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty2hotty View Post
    Slim pickings indeed. Watson hasn't done enough at Huddersfield to be considered. Briers is making a great reputation for himself in Aus. Marshall only experience as 1st team coach is at Halifax. And I'm sure Tony Smith after his time at wire took a sabbatical from coaching For a while as he felt disillusioned with the game and fell out of love with coaching. Think Rowley will be available soon enough and is probably the most realistic appointment at this stage. Wire have the money to buy out contract and salford need the cash.
    WRT Marshall, he left us to take up the Salford head coach role (2021). Didn't last a season.
    He's not the Messiah, he's a naughty boy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    I disagree with this.

    Holbrook changed things overnight at Saints. We were in exactly the same sort of situation as Wire are in now. The players' confidence was at rock bottom. The coaching had been abysmal, We were sinking fast. Then, within three months, we came within ten seconds of a Grand Final that we had a really good chance of winning.

    Having problems in the NRL is one thing. Coaching in a second-rate league like ours is something else.

    This is a great appointment for Warrington. As far as I'm concerned, he was the one who changed everything at this club after years of neglect. Woolf was fantastic for us, but he was the Paisley and Holbrook the Shankly.
    I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

    I don't think Holbrook will be capable of changing things overnight at Dire. We had quite a few players dormant in their ability and pretty good in character and temperement, just needed a sense of direction and management. The club had Rush and McManus sending out Holbrook to America to fast track club structure and connect with the fans.

    I just don't think Dire have the players and club management to make the same effective changes, reckon its going to take 2 seasons at least. i assume that club have realised that hence the 4 year deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

    I don't think Holbrook will be capable of changing things overnight at Dire. We had quite a few players dormant in their ability and pretty good in character and temperement, just needed a sense of direction and management. The club had Rush and McManus sending out Holbrook to America to fast track club structure and connect with the fans.

    I just don't think Dire have the players and club management to make the same effective changes, reckon its going to take 2 seasons at least. i assume that club have realised that hence the 4 year deal.
    Looking like he isn't taking the job now. If that's correct, I'm glad that we won't be able to find out who was right. :-)
    THIS YEAR LENDING SUPPORT TO:- St. Helens RLFC, Manchester City, Celtic, Alemannia Aachen, Borussia Dortmund, Preston North End, Steps 1 to 6 Non-League Football

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    John Wilkin said recently that Holbrook lifted the mood of the team and made training fun again.

    That is a big improvement in itself but the effect in terms of winning matches wasn't as drastic

    The Saints squad he took over had about half a dozen players who were GF winners a few years earlier, the Wire squad haven't got that.

    Holbrook's second season has Ben Barba who was Brilliant to watch, we won the Lls but flopped in the CC semi final. I don't think Holbrook managed the Barba situation well at the end of that season, he had already decided he was going and it was affecting his game, a stronger coach would have benched him or dropped him completely.
    To be fair we're 4 years on from that and Holbrook has now got 4yrs more experience.

    For me if you want your team to play attractive Rugby then Holbrook is the man

    If you want to win trophies you need Woolf
    The effect in winning matches was very dramatic, to be fair.

    We went from a team that was bloody hopeless at the point of KC's departure to a team that was within a Ryan Morgan brain-fart of a Grand Final, to finishing top the next season, to finishing top by a record margin the next.

    What didn't change immediately was the big-game winning mentality.

    In reality, a lot of those players had baggage. They had a long standing culture of coming up short in semi-finals and that mental hurdle took some getting over. Remember that the only trophy we had won in a decade was one that we'd never have won had the opposition not had a man sent off in the second minute.

    However, Holbrook got those players playing with such flare and quality that it was eventually going to come, and it did.

    Once the team had got over their psychological problems, it was all systems go, although our mental hurdles in the Challenge Cup have never quite been removed.

    Kristian Woolf picked up a set of players that were mentally a lot stronger than the ones Justin Holbrook picked up.
    THIS YEAR LENDING SUPPORT TO:- St. Helens RLFC, Manchester City, Celtic, Alemannia Aachen, Borussia Dortmund, Preston North End, Steps 1 to 6 Non-League Football

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    Last Sunday was obviously an emotional time.

    The team performance was a shambles, Powell was obviously p******d of and so were the management of the club.

    Now the dust has settled, cooler heads should prevail. They should have sit down with Powell and have clear the area talk.

    Given the lack of alternatives the club should back him.
    The players need to know that he has the backing of the board and if they don't like it drop them and play the youngsters.

    They're unlikely to win anything this year anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    Last Sunday was obviously an emotional time.

    The team performance was a shambles, Powell was obviously p******d of and so were the management of the club.

    Now the dust has settled, cooler heads should prevail. They should have sit down with Powell and have clear the area talk.

    Given the lack of alternatives the club should back him.
    The players need to know that he has the backing of the board and if they don't like it drop them and play the youngsters.

    They're unlikely to win anything this year anyway.
    They'd probably spoken to Holbrook and were confident he was coming

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    New reports now in Australia say he has rejected Wire and is going to either the Roosters or Bulldogs.
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

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    Starting A Programme Collection Brian Nazareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    The effect in winning matches was very dramatic, to be fair.

    We went from a team that was bloody hopeless at the point of KC's departure to a team that was within a Ryan Morgan brain-fart of a Grand Final, to finishing top the next season, to finishing top by a record margin the next.

    What didn't change immediately was the big-game winning mentality.

    In reality, a lot of those players had baggage. They had a long standing culture of coming up short in semi-finals and that mental hurdle took some getting over. Remember that the only trophy we had won in a decade was one that we'd never have won had the opposition not had a man sent off in the second minute.

    However, Holbrook got those players playing with such flare and quality that it was eventually going to come, and it did.

    Once the team had got over their psychological problems, it was all systems go, although our mental hurdles in the Challenge Cup have never quite been removed.

    Kristian Woolf picked up a set of players that were mentally a lot stronger than the ones Justin Holbrook picked up.


    It always seemed under Holbrook that we played the big SF's/F's with some shackles on. We'd always appear too tentative and playing within ourselves, especially in attack. Whether that was the coaching instruction or was players having, like you say, psychological barriers, I don't know (and opposition raising their intensity could always come into it as well, I guess).

    Same story with Woolf, but that was his normal, overriding gameplan - achieve physical dominance over the opposition by suffocating them with superior defence and power, and only open up if/when we got 3 or so scores ahead.
    He's not the Messiah, he's a naughty boy.

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