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Thread: 21 man squad v Leeds

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    When you look at Wellens the player as well as the coaches he’s played under and worked with, he must know the game inside out. I don’t know what is going wrong, suspensions, injuries. trying to play a different style, or just a bridge too far, but it certainly isn’t because of a lack of coaching knowledge.
    I agree & when he does his interviews and actually talks about the game I agree with most of what he says but he’s clearly having trouble translating that into coaching currently, the positive is we’re not that far behind the teams near the top and if we can get back to anything like what we were over the last few years we’ll fly up the table

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chief View Post
    Sorry Mr Dodd please pass on our congratulations to your son on his MOM performance!

    Youre talking about a 7 at Saints and highlight 2 plays to justify him being “one of our best. Get a grip. LHis last tackle options have been awful. When was the last time he broke the line? Was he better than the last 11 games, yes, is he playing to the levels he should be, absolute no. To be frank, if you actually read what I wrote instead of being a “mard arse” yourself, you’d see I couldn’t give a flying f*** that he’s moving on at the end of his contract. What I expect is the same level of performance and effort that he’s showed he’s capable of while he is under contract, and not even you wearing your Dodd 7 shirt can say he has.

    Oh and as you can see, I do need to grow up instead of having an opinion that’s different to yours before throwing out childish insults in an effort to shut you down.
    One of our best *last night*, which you decided to completely leave out. He's been nowhere near one of our best this year.

    Your opinion, whilst your entitled to it, is not remotely accurate for his game *last night* as this thread is about. Your petty reference to Eastmond shows the basis of your dig clearly was about him moving on. Quantify why he didn't play well last night and deserved that comment if it wasn't.

    And I'm not his Dad or that would have been an impressive age for me to be shagging.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Oh no doubt there. Percival straight back in for me too.
    Do we know how long Percy’s sick notes for?

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    Default 21 man squad v Leeds

    Quote Originally Posted by paraman View Post
    Spot on and if I was McManus and Rush then I would be having a conversation about the way forward as Wellens has taken the team so far backwards you wouldn’t think we have been the best team for the last 4 years. The defence is shocking, the attack is non existent and discipline is now bordering on complete stupidity. How Wellens can’t see that Dodd needs to be taken out of the team is beyond me. We look like a team that has been thrown together at the last minute. If Wellens is preparing the players well and they’re not following instructions then change the team it’s that simple.

    We don’t look like we are getting better as the season goes on and Wellens does look like a man under pressure and maybe we need to think about a change of coach
    If you’re taking Dodd out you’d take Welsby out too. He was far worse than Dodd last night IMO and has been a fair few times this year.

    Good job he’s not been linked with the NRL or the pitchforks would be out.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The.Reverand View Post
    Do we know how long Percy’s sick notes for?
    He should be back next week.
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  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint from Bury View Post
    one of our problems in attack is that Lomax no longer has the pace to make the break through the line as he did in say 2019 under Holbrook. And with Dodd do nothing with ball in hand , the halves are ineffectual.
    I agree, and the kicking game is pants from the halves as well. Then there is the indiscipline and all the unforced errors. Despite all that we are knocking on the door for a top 4 place and in the Challenge Cup. We have the best defence in the league. If our attack improves a tiny bit and we cut out the daft suspensions and stop dropping the ball, we can actually win this, which shows what a low quality comp it is at the moment, because our game is at best inconsistent and at worse down right bad

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    No sign of him coming back . We should be used to it..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    He should be back next week.
    Let’s just hope we get more than a game out of him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The.Reverand View Post
    Let’s just hope we get more than a game out of him.
    Out of our back line Makinson, Hopoate, Hurrell, Percival and Lomax are all at the end of their careers so the chances are that if they get injured they will be out for a while and that injuries are more likely to happen. Ritson and Bennison seem to be very close to regularfirst team slots but not actually quite there. Dodd and Welsby are not firing on all cylinders and Davies isn’t good enough. A part that it’s all fine

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackrowSaint View Post
    One of our best *last night*, which you decided to completely leave out. He's been nowhere near one of our best this year.

    Your opinion, whilst your entitled to it, is not remotely accurate for his game *last night* as this thread is about. Your petty reference to Eastmond shows the basis of your dig clearly was about him moving on. Quantify why he didn't play well last night and deserved that comment if it wasn't.

    And I'm not his Dad or that would have been an impressive age for me to be shagging.
    How impressive?

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    Some pathetic "he is past it" posts on here.
    The team is not firing. Simple as.. And its still a team of players capable of winning the GF.

    It's coaching. Wello needs to find his ruthless side sooner rather than later, and he may not have that in him.
    Like i said before he got the head coach job and someone else has said on here. He should have been our long term assistant.. and there's no reason that can't happen still.

    Probably be a slight ego blow. But be better than eventually losing his job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    Out of our back line Makinson, Hopoate, Hurrell, Percival and Lomax are all at the end of their careers so the chances are that if they get injured they will be out for a while and that injuries are more likely to happen. Ritson and Bennison seem to be very close to regularfirst team slots but not actually quite there. Dodd and Welsby are not firing on all cylinders and Davies isn’t good enough. A part that it’s all fine

    Bit harsh on Percival, he is only 28. You could say that without his bad luck he would be in his prime years now.

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    Perhaps Wellens would have liked to have played a more expansive game with the squad when he took over. But the three years under Woolf with his crash, bang, wallop, tactics have knocked a lot of the skill out of them.
    I would like to see someone hoof the ball into the air Harry Kane style, or like Leeds did last night and cause the opposition defence problems. My best players last night Walmsley, Sironen. Dodds pass to Sironen was a nice touch. It was good to know that near the end of the 80mins Saints found out they had someone on the wing with pace and perhaps they should give him the ball a little bit more.

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    I think we are not braking teams down like we have done over the last few years. The sooner Morgan’s back playing at 13 the better for me. At the minute bell looks to have a free reign and is taking away all real go forward. I think when wingfield come on for bell we seem to go forward better. There a reason bell was struggled to get in the team under wolf. Wello needs to look at what worked and what is not working and has not been working all season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGSaint View Post
    Some pathetic "he is past it" posts on here.
    The team is not firing. Simple as.. And its still a team of players capable of winning the GF.

    It's coaching. Wello needs to find his ruthless side sooner rather than later, and he may not have that in him.
    Like i said before he got the head coach job and someone else has said on here. He should have been our long term assistant.. and there's no reason that can't happen still.

    Probably be a slight ego blow. But be better than eventually losing his job.
    are you arguing that players like Lomax and the rest have not been affected by the passage of time and are the same players as they were 5 years ago? As to being a team capable of winning the grand final I agree and said so above. In fact I said they are capable of doing that even on current form. I agree that the coaching is an issue. But the coach doesn’t go on the pitch to throw the ball about and tackle people. it as a simple fact that as we age we lose speed, are more prone to injury and take longer to recover. Rose tinted glasses don’t actually alter reality
    Last edited by John; 28th May 2023 at 07:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A.O.88 View Post
    Bit harsh on Percival, he is only 28. You could say that without his bad luck he would be in his prime years now.
    Unfortunately I don’t see his long standing injury concerns suddenly clear up. If we have Percy we need to keep a decent replacement for cover. I would love to see him in full flight for a long time. He may not be the best wingers centre, but when it comes to effort or creating something out of nothing he is pure class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    are you arguing that players like Lomax and the rest have not been affected by the passage of time and are the same players as they were 5 years ago? As to being a team capable of winning the grand final I agree and said so above. In fact I said they are capable of doing that even on current form. I agree that the coaching is an issue. But the coach doesn’t go on the pitch to throw the ball about and tackle people. it as a simple fact that as we age we lose speed, are more prone to injury and take longer to recover. Rose tinted glasses don’t actually alter reality
    To me, I do think Lomax can be just as effective as he has always been. What has changed this year is the distribution from dummy half, something which used to be one of our major strengths has really dropped off a cliff. I think we were all blindsided by the “1 more year” sentiment and we should be looking to use Roby sparingly now. Just look at some of the passes given for the drop goal attempts.

    When you combine that with Dodd not being effective at fixing the defence and not creating the overlap outside, it’s no wonder the likes of Lomax and Welsby look ordinary. They should be getting the ball 3 on 2 where as they more often than not are dealing with 3 on 4 or worse. The few times we have seen Lomax drift back into first receiver, he’s looked far more threatening, either passing (like the WCC first try) or running (like the try he scored against Warrington).

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    To me, I do think Lomax can be just as effective as he has always been. What has changed this year is the distribution from dummy half, something which used to be one of our major strengths has really dropped off a cliff. I think we were all blindsided by the “1 more year” sentiment and we should be looking to use Roby sparingly now. Just look at some of the passes given for the drop goal attempts.

    When you combine that with Dodd not being effective at fixing the defence and not creating the overlap outside, it’s no wonder the likes of Lomax and Welsby look ordinary. They should be getting the ball 3 on 2 where as they more often than not are dealing with 3 on 4 or worse. The few times we have seen Lomax drift back into first receiver, he’s looked far more threatening, either passing (like the WCC first try) or running (like the try he scored against Warrington).
    Yes, fair point but do you think Lomax could regularly break the line on 75 yards out or even 40 yards out and score? I think he has inevitably lost some pace. His positional sense, tactical awareness and passing ability is great. I think he will have one more year or two at the most. Sadly, I think it’s a year too far for Roby. I think he should come on from the bench for brief periods. I don’t begrudge him a years pay in the slightest. He deserves it so I’m glad he has this season

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGSaint View Post
    Some pathetic "he is past it" posts on here.
    The team is not firing. Simple as.. And its still a team of players capable of winning the GF.

    It's coaching. Wello needs to find his ruthless side sooner rather than later, and he may not have that in him.
    Like i said before he got the head coach job and someone else has said on here. He should have been our long term assistant.. and there's no reason that can't happen still.

    Probably be a slight ego blow. But be better than eventually losing his job.
    I think some posters are in that pathetic mode of expecting our team to be equal or better than last season when so much has changed and some elder players are just not performing now. As I mentioned in earlier posts only Sironen has been capable of performing this year and we are seeing signs of Walmsley getting to his best.

    On Wello, he hasn't got the luxury of being ruthless and changing the team due to all the injuries and suspensions, on saying that he has got his team almost at full strength now but he is struggling in the coaching role and the pressure is telling. For him its almost identical to his playing career were he started nervy, lacking confidence and had doubt if he was going to be a top player. I should imagine thats how he is feeling now and its up to McManus and Rushy to back him because we are heading into a transition next year.

    Lots of crtitism heading in the direction of Dodd but his last couple of games he is getting there and his head is now turning to Superleague rather than the NRL. However that still have an effect on Welsby in the attack roles were he is overplaying and overthinking with his decision making.

    Back to Wello and the coaching team in respect to experience strength, Holbrook had 2 great assistants, Woolf similar had 2 good assistants, Wellens perhaps not as much so and hence the existing burden on his shoulders.

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    I can’t recall the last time we created an overlap to put a winger in the clear. Ritson has never had a run in open space.

    You look at Wigan with Marshall and he is constantly in the clear.


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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I think some posters are in that pathetic mode of expecting our team to be equal or better than last season when so much has changed and some elder players are just not performing now. As I mentioned in earlier posts only Sironen has been capable of performing this year and we are seeing signs of Walmsley getting to his best.

    On Wello, he hasn't got the luxury of being ruthless and changing the team due to all the injuries and suspensions, on saying that he has got his team almost at full strength now but he is struggling in the coaching role and the pressure is telling. For him its almost identical to his playing career were he started nervy, lacking confidence and had doubt if he was going to be a top player. I should imagine thats how he is feeling now and its up to McManus and Rushy to back him because we are heading into a transition next year.

    Lots of crtitism heading in the direction of Dodd but his last couple of games he is getting there and his head is now turning to Superleague rather than the NRL. However that still have an effect on Welsby in the attack roles were he is overplaying and overthinking with his decision making.

    Back to Wello and the coaching team in respect to experience strength, Holbrook had 2 great assistants, Woolf similar had 2 good assistants, Wellens perhaps not as much so and hence the existing burden on his shoulders.
    I think this is right. I hope Wellens has plenty of time. We aren’t out of it yet but if we don’t win a fifth title it’s not a disaster. We are already in transition though I think the club might have thought we had this season before the transition begins. I agree thatWellens needs better support from assistant coaches especially somebody very experienced but I have no idea who.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    Yes, fair point but do you think Lomax could regularly break the line on 75 yards out or even 40 yards out and score? I think he has inevitably lost some pace. His positional sense, tactical awareness and passing ability is great. I think he will have one more year or two at the most. Sadly, I think it’s a year too far for Roby. I think he should come on from the bench for brief periods. I don’t begrudge him a years pay in the slightest. He deserves it so I’m glad he has this season
    I don’t think he could any less than he could 4-5 years ago. Was it 2020 when Toronto played SL where he went basically the whole season without scoring? Lomax’s game has never been built around breaks and speed due to the injuries he incurred all those years ago. The difference was with two well timed and accurate passes to get it to him, he more often than not could choose the last killer ball which saw someone else scoring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    I can’t recall the last time we created an overlap to put a winger in the clear. Ritson has never had a run in open space.

    You look at Wigan with Marshall and he is constantly in the clear.


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    Three times in back field vs Leeds we had the opportunity for him to push up and be in the clear when either makinson or welsby skirted round players. He didn't seem to have the awareness to push in the next hole to get a break. He has to play his part in the creation of space/gaps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    I think this is right. I hope Wellens has plenty of time. We aren’t out of it yet but if we don’t win a fifth title it’s not a disaster. We are already in transition though I think the club might have thought we had this season before the transition begins. I agree thatWellens needs better support from assistant coaches especially somebody very experienced but I have no idea who.
    I'm as concerned as anyone about how things are going at the moment, but I think any new coach is entitled to at least a year. I think very few coaches get it right in the first year (Holbrook certainly didn't (although we played a lot of attractive stuff) and although Woolf scored a flukey GF win I don't think his methods really took hold until his second year). The test really is how well they translate what they learn in that first year into improvements in the second. I think Wello's current travails shed an interesting light on the KC era. He deserved that first year too but when it was clear in his second year that it wasn't getting any better McManus should have made the call then (instead of giving him an unearned extension, presumably as some kind of 'confidence boost') and if the worst comes to the worst I sincerely hope he doesn't make the same mistake twice

    So long as we make the playoffs again this year (in many ways the record I most value) I think Wello's entitled to a fresh start next year, and that will be the real moment of truth. But if it starts to look like we won't, as it did under KC, that may force the management's hand. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    I can’t recall the last time we created an overlap to put a winger in the clear. Ritson has never had a run in open space.

    You look at Wigan with Marshall and he is constantly in the clear.


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    Isn’t that what we did for the Makinson try on Friday?

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