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Thread: 21 man squad v Leeds

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Glad to have managed to have found a way to win.

    But that by and large, was woeful

    Edit: got to give Leeds a lot of credit for their efforts. Bar Walters who is a grub
    He might be a grub but no denying he had a cracking game. He’s going to be a top player. I did notice he was mouthing off all game, but that’s not really any different to someone like Welsby. Most of the top players have that level of competitiveness. I’m gutted we’ve missed his signing to Wigan tbh, I really like him. Though I’ll also admit to the highlight of the game being him costing it them in the last minute of normal time and Lomax giving him a taste of his own medicine

    On the game, it was •••• poor. From both sides, but Leeds had the excuse of all of their injuries and disruption during the game. They were down to playing Gannon at half back who’s never a half back in a million years, then even he went off injured! I’d be so proud of that performance if I was a Leeds fan, but the worry now is with so many injuries I’m really not sure I see a path for them into the play offs with how much ground they’ve already lost.

    Made up to get the win because it was a massive win that we desperately needed. I’m not confident of anything over the next few weeks though, we need to get a lot better and fast. Leeds gifted us the game in the end as their game management was marginally worse than ours which was terrible. Don’t see many other teams doing that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint from Bury View Post
    well done Dodd. That's the second decent thing you have done this season( pity you missed with various attempts tonight). Woeful team performance against a badly weakened Leeds side.
    Harsh. His pass for the Siro try was very nice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poysaint View Post
    Harsh. His pass for the Siro try was very nice
    He was defensively excellent too and came up with one or two massive moments that probably go unnoticed. One in particular in the first half on Newman where he stopped what would’ve been a certain try and then Newman knocked on shortly after.

    His kicking game was slightly better too and was unlucky not to have another assist to his name with the Ritson chance where he collected the high kick.

    His drop goal attempts were shambolic in the main but in his defence pretty much all of the service he received for them was terrible too. He didn’t get one clean pass really.

    I’ve been critical of him this year and he’s clearly not himself but I don’t think he was particularly bad last night. He unfortunately just stood out because he missed the drop goals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    Agree totally. FWIW I thought Wellens appointment was a massive gamble and so it has proved. I’m convinced it was part of a cost cutting exercise along with not refreshing the squad. Interesting see Rush next to Wellens last night. (Rushes facial expressions were very telling). Where is our asst coach? Smith has been sat with Wello for last 2 games. We were particularly awful in the first half. And not much better in the 2nd. Even ‘big’ players are now awful. The win has just given Wello a few days grace until the next debacle.
    I get I’m just a fan and have enjoyed all the success and I’m not naive to think we will eventually not win consistently, but as said above the fall from grace is alarming. As I have said before Wellens is not the answer. Saints need to be brave and get looking for a replacement ASAP. I will still go and support, but this season will be a drudge unfortunately. My fear is Saints will stick with him even next season.
    Do you not think Wellens should be given at least one season? We are half way through this season now and I don't think we are far off the top four. If we don't make the playoffs he has to go obviously but I think that is unlikely even with the way the team is playing. For me it is the discipline and the attack that needs to improve and I think the coaching of the attack needs an overhaul because we look clueless, which is a long standing problem! Perhaps it's too early to judge Wellens. My biggest concern is that our best game was against Warrington and we didn't have our supposedly "best" team out, so I wonder about his management of our senior players. Maybe when some of them move on next year and the year after it'll be a very different situation. Assuming he is still here next year!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Fraysinnous is back in France in hospital after an operation


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    Ok cheers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    Do you not think Wellens should be given at least one season? We are half way through this season now and I don't think we are far off the top four. If we don't make the playoffs he has to go obviously but I think that is unlikely even with the way the team is playing. For me it is the discipline and the attack that needs to improve and I think the coaching of the attack needs an overhaul because we look clueless, which is a long standing problem! Perhaps it's too early to judge Wellens. My biggest concern is that our best game was against Warrington and we didn't have our supposedly "best" team out, so I wonder about his management of our senior players. Maybe when some of them move on next year and the year after it'll be a very different situation. Assuming he is still here next year!
    In reality I know he will be given the whole season and that’s probably far (even if it’s going to be painful). I would love to be proved wrong and would love us to go unbeaten from here on in, but I don’t see anything that says we have remotely improved with him in charge. His body language and post match interviews (all word salad) reinforces to me he knows himself it’s not working. I get it’s all opinions but as said by Reacher our fall from grace is very alarming. Time will tell what Saints management do, but I’m hunkering down for some long M62 journeys for nothing this season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    In reality I know he will be given the whole season and that’s probably far (even if it’s going to be painful). I would love to be proved wrong and would love us to go unbeaten from here on in, but I don’t see anything that says we have remotely improved with him in charge. His body language and post match interviews (all word salad) reinforces to me he knows himself it’s not working. I get it’s all opinions but as said by Reacher our fall from grace is very alarming. Time will tell what Saints management do, but I’m hunkering down for some long M62 journeys for nothing this season.
    Yes, I think you're right, he does know it isn't working. The question is, whether as a new head coach, he has confidence in his ability to put it right...

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    He was defensively excellent too and came up with one or two massive moments that probably go unnoticed. One in particular in the first half on Newman where he stopped what would’ve been a certain try and then Newman knocked on shortly after.

    His kicking game was slightly better too and was unlucky not to have another assist to his name with the Ritson chance where he collected the high kick.

    His drop goal attempts were shambolic in the main but in his defence pretty much all of the service he received for them was terrible too. He didn’t get one clean pass really.

    I’ve been critical of him this year and he’s clearly not himself but I don’t think he was particularly bad last night. He unfortunately just stood out because he missed the drop goals.
    Yeah agree, think he was one of our better players last night. I understand why people are getting frustrated with him but making him the scape goat for every poor performance is getting a bit silly now. Surely we all want him to succeed and live up to the potential he was showing last year. I think some people just want to believe he’s a bad player because he’s likely going to be leaving.

    And yeah the passes for all the drop goal attempts were awful! Tho at the same time a few of them were on the 4th so rather than trying to rush a DG attempt he probably should have just passed and set again on the 5th. Even the winning one was a terrible pass, he did well to get it off in time.

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    Shocking performance again, last season we were far superior to every other team and now we”re reduced to this, if nothing improves we can’t have another season of this

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poysaint View Post
    He might be a grub but no denying he had a cracking game. He’s going to be a top player. I did notice he was mouthing off all game, but that’s not really any different to someone like Welsby. Most of the top players have that level of competitiveness. I’m gutted we’ve missed his signing to Wigan tbh, I really like him. Though I’ll also admit to the highlight of the game being him costing it them in the last minute of normal time and Lomax giving him a taste of his own medicine

    On the game, it was •••• poor. From both sides, but Leeds had the excuse of all of their injuries and disruption during the game. They were down to playing Gannon at half back who’s never a half back in a million years, then even he went off injured! I’d be so proud of that performance if I was a Leeds fan, but the worry now is with so many injuries I’m really not sure I see a path for them into the play offs with how much ground they’ve already lost.

    Made up to get the win because it was a massive win that we desperately needed. I’m not confident of anything over the next few weeks though, we need to get a lot better and fast. Leeds gifted us the game in the end as their game management was marginally worse than ours which was terrible. Don’t see many other teams doing that
    Fair argument. I think in days gone by, he would have been sorted though. Head in the tackle constantly & a cheap shot. I don't like him

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    Batchelor had a mare, it looked as if he missed more tackles than he made.

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    Regarding Hopoate, he's not everyone's favourite but he was relatively safe last night. We were dropping the ball constantly but he wasn't one of the culprits.

    Great tackle on Myler as well, which got us the ball back in the lead up to the last drop goal attempt. He also recognised Ritson was being tailed by McDonald & held on to the ball, rather than give the pass.

    Just my defence for him last night. Thought he kept his head better than most others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Regarding Hopoate, he's not everyone's favourite but he was relatively safe last night. We were dropping the ball constantly but he wasn't one of the culprits.

    Great tackle on Myler as well, which got us the ball back in the lead up to the last drop goal attempt. He also recognised Ritson was being tailed by McDonald & held on to the ball, rather than give the pass.

    Just my defence for him last night. Thought he kept his head better than most others.
    Appreciate your point but this is all Hopoate is though, safe.

    He has no strike about him, no pace or power to beat a player just a very steady eddy.

    Percival comes straight in for him for me, hope we don’t extend his contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reliable sauce View Post
    Appreciate your point but this is all Hopoate is though, safe.

    He has no strike about him, no pace or power to beat a player just a very steady eddy.

    Percival comes straight in for him for me, hope we don’t extend his contract.
    Oh no doubt there. Percival straight back in for me too.

    It will be interesting to see what happens in terms of team selection when Percival is fit.

    It was that much of a mess last night, that Hopoate's steadiness stood out for me & when it's like that, it did show. Because it was borderline shambles at times

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    The most telling thing about this season is our defence. It has been intense, brutal defence that got us to where we were under Woolf, with decent attack opportunities coming off the back of knackering teams out. Whether you think that is entertaining is a different matter but obviously it was ultra effective. So how can our most basic elements of the game have changed? One on one tackling is much worse, controlling the ruck speed has been poor, line speed is up and down and generally much slower. For people in the know, have there been any changes in conditioning and defensive coaches that I'm not aware of, because you cannot fault the raw effort (which has been levelled at them)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Oh no doubt there. Percival straight back in for me too.

    It will be interesting to see what happens in terms of team selection when Percival is fit.

    It was that much of a mess last night, that Hopoate's steadiness stood out for me & when it's like that, it did show. Because it was borderline shambles at times
    Wellens will probably drop Ritson and move Hopoate to the wing to make way for Percival

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    Default 21 man squad v Leeds

    Quote Originally Posted by djh1972 View Post
    The most telling thing about this season is our defence. It has been intense, brutal defence that got us to where we were under Woolf, with decent attack opportunities coming off the back of knackering teams out. Whether you think that is entertaining is a different matter but obviously it was ultra effective. So how can our most basic elements of the game have changed? One on one tackling is much worse, controlling the ruck speed has been poor, line speed is up and down and generally much slower. For people in the know, have there been any changes in conditioning and defensive coaches that I'm not aware of, because you cannot fault the raw effort (which has been levelled at them)
    I think we shouldn’t discount an element of teams working out how to play us. Salford did it once against Woolf shifting the ball wide early and everyone does it now.

    Doesn’t mean every break will be wide but does give the team second thoughts on how compact to be. Maybe that’s part of it.

    I think the team worked incredibly hard in defence last night - lots of scramble showed how much the players wanted it. There is no doubt they are really turning up but nothing is going right for us with the ball this season and that’s a concern.

    You can tell it’s a team that’s really frustrated with its own performance and for me that’s a good thing - neither Wello nor lomax were falling for some of the sky nonsense, they were clear that we were rank.

    Jon Wells “two teams at the top of their game” - wtf?

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    Does anyone know if/when the game is repeated on SKY. My recording cut off after 50 mins due to my memory being full on the SKY box. 98 episodes of Paw Patrol has a lot to answer for this morning.
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    Default 21 man squad v Leeds

    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    I think we shouldn’t discount an element of teams working out how to play us. Salford did it once against Woolf shifting the ball wide early and everyone does it now.

    Doesn’t mean every break will be wide but does give the team second thoughts on how compact to be. Maybe that’s part of it.

    I think the team worked incredibly hard in defence last night - lots of scramble showed how much the players wanted it. There is no doubt they are really turning up but nothing is going right for us with the ball this season and that’s a concern.

    You can tell it’s a team that’s really frustrated with its own performance and for me that’s a good thing - neither Wello nor lomax were falling for some of the sky nonsense, they were clear that we were rank.

    Jon Wells “two teams at the top of their game” - wtf?
    The buck stops with the coaching staff. Every week it’s the same rhetoric “we have to fix things up” “we need to improve” and guess what- nothing happens and there’s no improvement.

    Even after the “line in the sand” talk this week we had a yellow card last night, loads of niggle and pinged for consecutive penalties. He’s either not a strong enough coach or the players aren’t listening.

    All this talk of we can win it from 6th or Carney saying everyone should be fearful of us is hot air. Quite simply we limped over the line against a team running on fumes last night. We aren’t short of being full strength now, we had 3 missing last night. Compared to others that’s healthy and even then I’d have Bell in the 17 over Knowles so maybe only 2 starters missing.

    There were lots of lazy efforts in defence last night. Lomax and Hurrell’s efforts for their first try I wouldn’t expect to see at U10s level.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Does anyone know if/when the game is repeated on SKY. My recording cut off after 50 mins due to my memory being full on the SKY box. 98 episodes of Paw Patrol has a lot to answer for this morning.
    I’m not sure they ever repeat in full just a 15 minute highlight generally. Saints TV would be your only hope in a day or two.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Regarding Hopoate, he's not everyone's favourite but he was relatively safe last night. We were dropping the ball constantly but he wasn't one of the culprits.

    Great tackle on Myler as well, which got us the ball back in the lead up to the last drop goal attempt. He also recognised Ritson was being tailed by McDonald & held on to the ball, rather than give the pass.

    Just my defence for him last night. Thought he kept his head better than most others.
    Don’t agree. Hopoate is utterly pointless. We may as well play with 5 tackles when coming out of our half because when he takes a drive it’s just an absolute waste.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    I’m not sure they ever repeat in full just a 15 minute highlight generally. Saints TV would be your only hope in a day or two.
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    Haha thanks for that. Yeah will watch it back on Saints TV instead cheers.
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    Does anyone think we have to many chiefs and not enough indians running the attack at the moment?

    Last year we had Lomax and Welsby running the attack and the rest grafting and playing direct. This year we seem to have Welsby at full back but he plays a mix of 1 and 6 in attack. We then have Lomax and Dodd in the halves and Bell playing as an extra pivot as a ball playing forward aswell. It just seems like overkill and confusion to me. It's no wonder our halves and Welsby are looking so poor at times. Our attack just looks aimless and structureless.

    It feels like we need to go back to basics and simplify the attack. If Wellens sees Welsby as a full back, then have him attack from there as the 3rd pivot and supporting player for any breaks we make, and have Dodd and Lomax run the plays. Why do we need Bell to be ball playing aswell? Let him play more direct and run at the line. Let the team and forwards play more direct and not play lateral. The 1st 15 / 20 minutes of the 2nd half we played more direct and simple and we fought our way back into the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    I think we shouldn’t discount an element of teams working out how to play us. Salford did it once against Woolf shifting the ball wide early and everyone does it now.

    Doesn’t mean every break will be wide but does give the team second thoughts on how compact to be. Maybe that’s part of it.

    I think the team worked incredibly hard in defence last night - lots of scramble showed how much the players wanted it. There is no doubt they are really turning up but nothing is going right for us with the ball this season and that’s a concern.

    You can tell it’s a team that’s really frustrated with its own performance and for me that’s a good thing - neither Wello nor lomax were falling for some of the sky nonsense, they were clear that we were rank.

    Jon Wells “two teams at the top of their game” - wtf?
    If it was mostly that I wouldn't be too fussed, that's just sport. I think a few teams tried to do it last year because it was no secret that they couldn't beat us up the middle, but it was rare that it came off because of our line speed and intensity. It's that lack of defensive dominance which is so infuriating when it was just standard last year. Just can't get my head round how that has dropped????

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    Quote Originally Posted by reliable sauce View Post
    Appreciate your point but this is all Hopoate is though, safe.

    He has no strike about him, no pace or power to beat a player just a very steady eddy.

    Percival comes straight in for him for me, hope we don’t extend his contract.
    That's all you can say is that he's solid, his tackle on Walters before half time probably kept us in the game too when Sione was nowhere.

    Should he play when we have Percival back, no. Is he one of our best available centres at the moment, yes

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