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Thread: Our style

  1. #26
    In The South Stand Sean Day's Avatar
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    Not sure Knowles will be switched to prop but I think it's a decent call.

    We had pace and mobility all over the field last night, it was in stark contrast to the leaden legged stuff of the last few weeks. As said above, we will need a mixture of both over the season to cater for different opposition but it does show that we won't need to stick to the grind to get anywhere.

    Delaney - outstanding for a 19 year old prop. Needs to keep his shirt, might need spells out of the limelight given his age but in general he looks nailed on. Bell is an out and out loose forward though. Maybe Knowles could take on the James Graham ball playing prop role.

    Ritson. His pace is an obvious attacking threat but also allows us to compress the defence as he is capable of covering the ground if they go wide quickly to that side. With the aggression in defence that will leave teams nowhere to go

  2. #27
    Starting A Programme Collection jefmeister2004's Avatar
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    Default Hurrell-Ritson pairing

    Glad we went for it last night as it had to be tried sooner than later - the thought terrifying in defence mouthwatering in attack.

    The defence frailities came to nought, maybe that was because of Batch, but certainly Ritosn didnt look fragile and made excellent reads to keep Ashton quiet, also he's done his homework on how Konnie plays in D and attack. Konnie's belief in Ritson was finally vindicated in the last minute- however all the match Bevan French noted the crowd lifting in anticipation of him getting the ball - and he's well tuned to that. The thrill that pace brings.

    I particualrly like the way he backs himself on the outside, but not to the point of being reckless and knows when to come inside - if you see what I mean.

    Win or lose am now really looking forward to more of this paring.

  3. #28
    In The South Stand reliable sauce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jefmeister2004 View Post
    Ah, thankyou Backrow - I didn't know that he was suffering a further setback on top of last years Achilles. That explains the missing ooomphh factor.

    As another poster (dewi) so expertly pointed out - a lot of answers last emerged last night but brought even more pleasant questions to perplex Cheif Wello.

    [edit]
    Just wondering about your point above reliable sauce, why has that spine repeatedly clicked last night the same one that had been misfiring lately, not dismissing your point at all just curious .... was it Bell / more of Lussick / Batchelor ... mebbe a combo of all 3 ? Personally I think it was the extra space attracted by Batchelor, easing the mistrust of defence of Hurrell/Ritson (misplaced n last nights evidence) and also speed of execution from Bell
    A complete change of mentality and a change of tactics I think.

    Wellens spoke about it post match, he had told the players to play what they see and to be free out there, emulating what they do in training. It probably reinstalled some confidence.

    Bell was outstanding, Batchelor we have massively missed and it was a monster effort to play 80 after so long out.

    Welsby getting his hands on the ball early, even though he was fullback he came into the line at first/second receiver on occasion. The three of them (Lomax, Dodd, Welsby) need to be out there. Some of the criticism of Dodd is beyond me really, he’s an outstanding young talent. Perhaps not hitting the heights he was prior to injury but he’ll get back there and surpass it.

  4. #29
    Banned Gerry Mander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jefmeister2004 View Post
    Glad we went for it last night as it had to be tried sooner than later - the thought terrifying in defence mouthwatering in attack.

    The defence frailities came to nought, maybe that was because of Batch, but certainly Ritosn didnt look fragile and made excellent reads to keep Ashton quiet, also he's done his homework on how Konnie plays in D and attack. Konnie's belief in Ritson was finally vindicated in the last minute- however all the match Bevan French noted the crowd lifting in anticipation of him getting the ball - and he's well tuned to that. The thrill that pace brings.

    I particualrly like the way he backs himself on the outside, but not to the point of being reckless and knows when to come inside - if you see what I mean.

    Win or lose am now really looking forward to more of this paring.
    MODS- This thread might be worth merging with new style as it has a significant amount of overlap. Just a suggestion.


    Really enjoyed it.

    The whole right side looked good. The inclusion of batchelor is part of that.

    Hurrell butchered a few passes out to his wing but the fact that he was looking to service his winger was good.

    Be good to see Lomax and Weslby utilising him as well with kicks and miss passes to supplement Hurrell's service.

    All very positive.

    Bit of a contradiction with Wellens in that "Ritson has been chomping at the bit , then playing Makinson busted for serveral weeks"
    In the interests of both players should Ritson chance could have come earlier ?

    Last night was the first time that any real signs of the much talked about new attacking style was evident.
    The question I have surrounds trying a new style and giving the likes of Ritson a chance seems to be a last resort rather than first.
    There's a question in have the absentees been behind the desire to cling to woolfball ? It is a question rather than an asertion.

    Looking forward to seeing more of "welloball" - woolflike defence supplemented by Lauren attack.
    Last edited by Gerry Mander; 21st April 2023 at 17:09. Reason: suggestion

  5. #30
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk paulscnthorpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackrowSaint View Post
    I think Dodd is catching some unfair flak mainly brought about by his kicking. What he's doing ball in hand is absolutely fine, he's not lighting up with breaks but he absolutely is creating space for Lomax and Welsby which is what good 7s do.

    His injury is hamstring/lower back which should give some explanation why his kicking and running games aren't quite as potent as it stands.
    That's what I thought - he's been poor this year without a doubt, however we played well last night with Welsby, Dodd and Lomax as the pivot (helped by Bell) I don't see why people want to now drop Dodd

    Similarly, Bennison worked was on the wing, not full back.

    When Makinson, Ritson and Bennison are all fit - one misses out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    Walmsley and Passi coming into the pack will be great with LMS (for one final season) and Delaney as the other two props
    No Lees?

  7. #32
    Starting A Programme Collection jefmeister2004's Avatar
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    MODS- This thread might be worth merging with new style as it has a significant amount of overlap. Just a suggestion.

    Agree with that Gerry - The New "Wello Style"

    ps- 1) maybe this was what Wello was waiting for to indtroduce Ritson - the availbiity of Batchelor on that side to reduce the risk
    2) clinging to Wolfball - dont think so, more to me it seems that maybe we've risked more by playing injured players too many times. Sure theres usually niggles for all playing personnel, but I think they got too many niggles definately for Mako (from what I saw at DW) and Percy

  8. #33
    Banned Gerry Mander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jefmeister2004 View Post
    MODS- This thread might be worth merging with new style as it has a significant amount of overlap. Just a suggestion.

    Agree with that Gerry - The New "Wello Style"

    ps- 1) maybe this was what Wello was waiting for to indtroduce Ritson - the availbiity of Batchelor on that side to reduce the risk
    2) clinging to Wolfball - dont think so, more to me it seems that maybe we've risked more by playing injured players too many times. Sure theres usually niggles for all playing personnel, but I think they got too many niggles definately for Mako (from what I saw at DW) and Percy
    Good point on Batchelor.

    Agree and interesting on picking busted players.
    Perhaps more conservatism on selection playing busted and on reputation rather than form, equally applies to Hopaote over Bennison.
    Get to the right decision but ultimately as a last resort over an instintive choice.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by reliable sauce View Post
    A complete change of mentality and a change of tactics I think.

    Wellens spoke about it post match, he had told the players to play what they see and to be free out there, emulating what they do in training. It probably reinstalled some confidence.

    Bell was outstanding, Batchelor we have massively missed and it was a monster effort to play 80 after so long out.

    Welsby getting his hands on the ball early, even though he was fullback he came into the line at first/second receiver on occasion. The three of them (Lomax, Dodd, Welsby) need to be out there. Some of the criticism of Dodd is beyond me really, he’s an outstanding young talent. Perhaps not hitting the heights he was prior to injury but he’ll get back there and surpass it.
    Dodd is taking a lot of very unnecessary flak this season. The kid has not yet completed one full season of SL yet. He is doing nothing wrong for me, and will only keep improving if fans don't get on his back and expect the 2nd coming of Andrew John's week after week.

    Knowles to Prop could work well, a bit like Andy Platt, however he may well find a home in the 2nd row as there is no guarantee Sione will be back anytime soon. Suffered two serious concussions in relatively quick succession. He was in the Hospitality Lounge for the Wakefield game and talked about how he had been sick all weekend after taking the first head knock 27 seconds in.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jefmeister2004 View Post
    Glad we went for it last night as it had to be tried sooner than later - the thought terrifying in defence mouthwatering in attack.

    The defence frailities came to nought, maybe that was because of Batch, but certainly Ritosn didnt look fragile and made excellent reads to keep Ashton quiet, also he's done his homework on how Konnie plays in D and attack. Konnie's belief in Ritson was finally vindicated in the last minute- however all the match Bevan French noted the crowd lifting in anticipation of him getting the ball - and he's well tuned to that. The thrill that pace brings.

    I particualrly like the way he backs himself on the outside, but not to the point of being reckless and knows when to come inside - if you see what I mean.

    Win or lose am now really looking forward to more of this paring.
    Thought Ritson was very wily in defence. Never over committed and was able to deal with offloads as a result

  11. #36
    Learning All The Songs Brian Nazareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    Good point on Batchelor.

    Agree and interesting on picking busted players.
    Perhaps more conservatism on selection playing busted and on reputation rather than form, equally applies to Hopaote over Bennison.
    Get to the right decision but ultimately as a last resort over an instintive choice.

    Was going to make a similar point.

    I think the Leeds and Leigh losses had Wellens get a little spooked and go safety-first, probably thinking "the players know Woolfball, and it's worked well for the last 3 years"

    As you say, injuries forced us into trying something different as we didn't have the personnel available for effective Woolfball.

    What last night did have was taking the best bits of Woolfball - the quick line speed in defence, ferocious scrambling defence, general intensity - but added more freedom in attack, which was augmented by having actual attacking shapes (dummy runners, offloads, double-pivots, etc)

    I remember Daniel Anderson's first season, where he stiffened up the defence whilst the players still had some of the Millward-era attacking flair. That season was a great balance of attack and defence.

    Early days, and one swallow, etc, but it would be nicebto dream that we find a similar balance (albeit coming at it from the opposite way round)
    He's not the Messiah, he's a naughty boy.

  12. #37
    Starting A Programme Collection jefmeister2004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Nazareth View Post

    I remember Daniel Anderson's first season, where he stiffened up the defence whilst the players still had some of the Millward-era attacking flair. That season was a great balance of attack and defence.

    Early days, and one swallow, etc, but it would be nicebto dream that we find a similar balance (albeit coming at it from the opposite way round)
    (albeit coming at it from the opposite way round) ................ well, defence and team-attitude are much harder to install - tick we got that thanks Woolfie. Creativity, unpredicatbility I'm sure we have in abundance now in the Spine and Hurrell-Ritson. So that dream being fulfilled through Wello isn't too fanciful a thought.... just a bit of patience and confidence in Team selection !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Nazareth View Post
    Was going to make a similar point.

    I think the Leeds and Leigh losses had Wellens get a little spooked and go safety-first, probably thinking "the players know Woolfball, and it's worked well for the last 3 years"

    As you say, injuries forced us into trying something different as we didn't have the personnel available for effective Woolfball.

    What last night did have was taking the best bits of Woolfball - the quick line speed in defence, ferocious scrambling defence, general intensity - but added more freedom in attack, which was augmented by having actual attacking shapes (dummy runners, offloads, double-pivots, etc)

    I remember Daniel Anderson's first season, where he stiffened up the defence whilst the players still had some of the Millward-era attacking flair. That season was a great balance of attack and defence.

    Early days, and one swallow, etc, but it would be nicebto dream that we find a similar balance (albeit coming at it from the opposite way round)
    Sounds a lot to me like late period Holbrook. Millward has been getting a few mentions since last night, but I think it would be unfair not to give JH his place in the conversation.

    I've said before that (in my view) Saints have tended to do best when we have alternated 'Cavalier' coaches (like Millward and Holbrook) with 'Roundhead' coaches (Anderson, Woolf). Of them all I think JH managed to get the best balance between attack and defence (despite inheriting a less promising squad/situation) and I'm hoping that Wello can repeat that trick.

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