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Thread: Our style

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    Default Our style

    Is it just me or was that performance the closest we’ve looked to how we played in the Milward days? The Lomax try being a good example. It was the push of bodies around him that created that opportunity. Our ball movement, switching angles and dummy runners stretched Warringtons defence all night. It was brilliant. It’s a long time since Ive been so entertained watching is. In fact, even if we lost last night I would of enjoyed the game more than most of our wins in recent years.

    The question is, do we play that way once we get bodies back??? We would obviously want players like Walmsley, Knowles back in the team. But does that make us more direct and one out? The Knowles/Bell comparison is a good one. Knowles is good and hits hard, but with Bell we have that elusiveness at first receiver with his footwork.

    Just wondering other peoples opinions. Should we aim to carry on playing in this style? Can we get away with it long term? Am I imagining it that we looked our most entertaining for a long time? Who plays in what position when we get players back?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Is it just me or was that performance the closest we’ve looked to how we played in the Milward days? The Lomax try being a good example. It was the push of bodies around him that created that opportunity. Our ball movement, switching angles and dummy runners stretched Warringtons defence all night. It was brilliant. It’s a long time since Ive been so entertained watching is. In fact, even if we lost last night I would of enjoyed the game more than most of our wins in recent years.

    The question is, do we play that way once we get bodies back??? We would obviously want players like Walmsley, Knowles back in the team. But does that make us more direct and one out? The Knowles/Bell comparison is a good one. Knowles is good and hits hard, but with Bell we have that elusiveness at first receiver with his footwork.

    Just wondering other peoples opinions. Should we aim to carry on playing in this style? Can we get away with it long term? Am I imagining it that we looked our most entertaining for a long time? Who plays in what position when we get players back?
    Great post. We were brilliant to watch and for me Bell is better for us than Knowles unless Knowles can change his approach. Welsby and Lomax in the halves and Bennison at fullback. Ritson right wing, Makinson on the left. Walmsley and Passi coming into the pack will be great with LMS (for one final season) and Delaney as the other two props. Bachelor made a big difference.

    I also thought we looked a bit like the Milward era, which is fine by me!

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    Great post. We were brilliant to watch and for me Bell is better for us than Knowles unless Knowles can change his approach. Welsby and Lomax in the halves and Bennison at fullback. Ritson right wing, Makinson on the left. Walmsley and Passi coming into the pack will be great with LMS (for one final season) and Delaney as the other two props. Bachelor made a big difference.

    I also thought we looked a bit like the Milward era, which is fine by me!
    Yeh all good points mate. Walmsley is getting on a bit. I think Knowles could play his game just as well at prop if wr decided to experiment with keeping Bell at 13??
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    I think once we get the players back we will be playing more direct than last night but will also throw the ball about when the opportunity comes. It's great practice and gives us another option especially when it comes to playing the conditions.

    We've been so focused on wearing teams down over the last few years, it's nice to see that we can still throw the ball about. We will need to do both through out the year.

    All that being said, it was our defence, which was by far the best it's been all year (Penrith aside), that allowed us to play like that.

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    After waking to this brilliant performance and win that most of us hand on heart didn’t think was possible I also wondered about how we played. Has our injuries and suspensions ended up Wellens Covid (Woolfs reboot) break? Bearing in mind Percy and Tommy were late withdrawals I can’t believe the team trained for last night. I think this display was enforced due to the team we had as well as a team determined to improve. The issue now is as said above does Wello revert to before when we get players back? I hope he can find a middle ground. Without getting carried away he needs to keep Ritson and Bennison in the team. They are raw but offer unpredictable danger and play off the cuff. Delaney should be with Lees Al and Passi now. He offers speed and great footwork. Let Al and Passi do the steamrolling. We need to offer teams problems. Before last night we were predictable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Yeh all good points mate. Walmsley is getting on a bit. I think Knowles could play his game just as well at prop if wr decided to experiment with keeping Bell at 13??
    Knowles could be a very good prop I reckon. I think he needs to tidy up his discipline though. Bell at 13 for me, but I think Welsby will end up at loose forward in a few years time. He reminds me of Sculthorpe a bit. Bell is a ball player and Knowles isn't. I like a 13 to be a pivot because it remoulds the attack. Bell defends very well too, as does Welsby.

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    I think that was only the way we could play the game yesterday, with so many players missing we couldn't play to our structure of grinding opposition players down. I was very suprised with our second phase which suited Bell and his open running play. Wello will learn a lot of positives to that game, when we get all our players back perhaps not look to a rigid process and play more open to what we see with more attacking shapes.

    PASTY is correct, a ball playing loose forward is more beneficial to pivotal attacking shapes, if Bell keeps up this form then Knowles will become a bench player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    After waking to this brilliant performance and win that most of us hand on heart didn’t think was possible I also wondered about how we played. Has our injuries and suspensions ended up Wellens Covid (Woolfs reboot) break? Bearing in mind Percy and Tommy were late withdrawals I can’t believe the team trained for last night. I think this display was enforced due to the team we had as well as a team determined to improve. The issue now is as said above does Wello revert to before when we get players back? I hope he can find a middle ground. Without getting carried away he needs to keep Ritson and Bennison in the team. They are raw but offer unpredictable danger and play off the cuff. Delaney should be with Lees Al and Passi now. He offers speed and great footwork. Let Al and Passi do the steamrolling. We need to offer teams problems. Before last night we were predictable.
    Agreed I thought Delaney was sensational last night. Deserves to keep his jersey.

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    Default Joe Batchelor

    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Is it just me or was that performance the closest we’ve looked to how we played in the Milward days? The Lomax try being a good example. It was the push of bodies around him that created that opportunity. Our ball movement, switching angles and dummy runners stretched Warringtons defence all night. It was brilliant. It’s a long time since Ive been so entertained watching is. In fact, even if we lost last night I would of enjoyed the game more than most of our wins in recent years.

    The question is, do we play that way once we get bodies back??? We would obviously want players like Walmsley, Knowles back in the team. But does that make us more direct and one out? The Knowles/Bell comparison is a good one. Knowles is good and hits hard, but with Bell we have that elusiveness at first receiver with his footwork.

    Just wondering other peoples opinions. Should we aim to carry on playing in this style? Can we get away with it long term? Am I imagining it that we looked our most entertaining for a long time? Who plays in what position when we get players back?


    What I difference when Joe comes back! - nothing fancy just offering tighter defence on one side whilst Bell covered the other side - Bell deserved his place in starting line up

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimmysaint View Post
    What I difference when Joe comes back! - nothing fancy just offering tighter defence on one side whilst Bell covered the other side - Bell deserved his place in starting line up
    Knowles has struggled with discipline this season but I think more to the point when he has played he has been nowhere near his best.

    I wouldn't be leaving out Bell to bring him back into the 13 in a hurry.

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    A lot of the same opinions and I agree
    Knowles to Prop
    Bennison to Full back when Makinson is back
    Welsby and Lomax in the halves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    Knowles has struggled with discipline this season but I think more to the point when he has played he has been nowhere near his best.

    I wouldn't be leaving out Bell to bring him back into the 13 in a hurry.
    I agree, Bell has outperformed him significantly I'd say. We know Knowles can do a good job at prop so there's always going to be somewhere for him in the 17, but Bell has been very strong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I think that was only the way we could play the game yesterday, with so many players missing we couldn't play to our structure of grinding opposition players down. I was very suprised with our second phase which suited Bell and his open running play. Wello will learn a lot of positives to that game, when we get all our players back perhaps not look to a rigid process and play more open to what we see with more attacking shapes.

    PASTY is correct, a ball playing loose forward is more beneficial to pivotal attacking shapes, if Bell keeps up this form then Knowles will become a bench player.
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    Not only was the attack better, so was the defence. Hurrell appeared to have confidence in Batchelor and seemed quite happy to slide out, leaving the inside for Batchelor to manage, which he did superbly. Ritson in turn seemed satisfied to hold his position, thus preventing them from getting round the outside. The missed one on one tackles which have been haunting us so far were also missing last night, we looked better defensively all round.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Moore View Post
    Not only was the attack better, so was the defence. Hurrell appeared to have confidence in Batchelor and seemed quite happy to slide out, leaving the inside for Batchelor to manage, which he did superbly. Ritson in turn seemed satisfied to hold his position, thus preventing them from getting round the outside. The missed one on one tackles which have been haunting us so far were also missing last night, we looked better defensively all round.
    Hurrell seems to have a lot more confidence in Batchelor inside - probably the extra pace Batchelor has. Very little was achieved down what is ordinarily Wires stronger edge and our weaker one. Williams was silent other than his assist for Hurrell

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimmysaint View Post
    What I difference when Joe comes back! - nothing fancy just offering tighter defence on one side whilst Bell covered the other side - Bell deserved his place in starting line up
    Regardless of the Bell question I think Joe Batch is one of our best players and offered really good presence and control on the right side. Great to have him back.

    As for Bell there is definitely and argument there I've always been a fan of a ball playing 13. Westerman being a great example of one when he's got his correct head on.

    The other conundrum is the Welsby/Lomax or Dodd/Lomax question. Is Dodd unsettled and hence not clicking. His kicking game needs to improve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    Bell is better for us than Knowles unless Knowles can change his approach. Welsby and Lomax in the halves and Bennison at fullback. Ritson right wing, Makinson on the left. Walmsley and Passi coming into the pack will be great with LMS (for one final season) and Delaney as the other two props. Bachelor made a big difference.
    Perfect. Just the Dodd conundrum is bugging me, back to his 2022 displays he's too good to be back up. The outstanding 2 Oz games seems to have took him 2 steps backward in recovery .......... or his head isn't in SL, I just don't know ........ one for Wello to sort not the likes of us

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    Quote Originally Posted by jefmeister2004 View Post
    Perfect. Just the Dodd conundrum is bugging me, back to his 2022 displays he's too good to be back up. The outstanding 2 Oz games seems to have took him 2 steps backward in recovery .......... or his head isn't in SL, I just don't know ........ one for Wello to sort not the likes of us
    I don’t think it’s head in Oz. He’s defending well and last night seemed fired up with enthusiasm. As others have said he may be carrying an injury but if he is, it isn’t interfering with his tackling. It may just be a drop off in confidence or it might be that he needs a full strength pack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jefmeister2004 View Post
    Perfect. Just the Dodd conundrum is bugging me, back to his 2022 displays he's too good to be back up. The outstanding 2 Oz games seems to have took him 2 steps backward in recovery .......... or his head isn't in SL, I just don't know ........ one for Wello to sort not the likes of us
    Whatever the cause is I think he needs time in the reserves or on loan. He certainly is not near his best at the moment and I think we have better options available

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    How many errors did we make? There were a couple of knock ons diving for loose balls near the opposition line and Hurrell’s dodgy offload that went down. Apart from that did we make any noticeable unforced errors? We also gave away only 4 penalties. That makes a huge difference for field position and is one of the key reasons we had a platform to play a more attacking game.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    He’s defending well and last night seemed fired up with enthusiasm
    Good to know, just the sort of thing you don't pick up on TV. Mebbe its just still physchologically scary / too early for him spntaneously flooring the accelerator. Some say is characteristic with recovery from that type injury. I want the eventual Welsby-Dodd combo but it has to wait as Jonny is undroppable atm even on a bad day

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    If you look at Bennison’s 2nd try it goes from dummy half to Welsby to Dodd to Lomax to Bennison. What creates the space for Lomax’s cut out to Bennison though is the speed with which all three pivots are moving forwards. All 3 catch, take the ball forwards quickly and then pass. The defensive line is held that extra couple of seconds before they can drift across, that leaves Minikin back pedalling, Ashton panics and jumps in and Lomax picks them off. Then Bennison does the rest but as Lomax is already moving at pace he’s there to support and give Dufty a choice to make. He bottles the tackle, goes for the high risk interception and Bennison makes him look a fool. All that came from the pivots taking the ball on at pace, something we haven’t seen enough of this season but was really led well by Bell often at 1st receiver.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    I think Dodd is catching some unfair flak mainly brought about by his kicking. What he's doing ball in hand is absolutely fine, he's not lighting up with breaks but he absolutely is creating space for Lomax and Welsby which is what good 7s do.

    His injury is hamstring/lower back which should give some explanation why his kicking and running games aren't quite as potent as it stands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    Great post. We were brilliant to watch and for me Bell is better for us than Knowles unless Knowles can change his approach. Welsby and Lomax in the halves and Bennison at fullback. Ritson right wing, Makinson on the left. Walmsley and Passi coming into the pack will be great with LMS (for one final season) and Delaney as the other two props. Bachelor made a big difference.

    I also thought we looked a bit like the Milward era, which is fine by me!
    Bennison hasn’t got the hands of Dodd/Welsby. We played so well last night because the spine clicked and we were able to spread the ball seamlessly. We’d be more clunky with Bennison at fullback so I don’t see how that change would improve us at all.

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    Ah, thankyou Backrow - I didn't know that he was suffering a further setback on top of last years Achilles. That explains the missing ooomphh factor.

    As another poster (dewi) so expertly pointed out - a lot of answers last emerged last night but brought even more pleasant questions to perplex Cheif Wello.

    [edit]
    Just wondering about your point above reliable sauce, why has that spine repeatedly clicked last night the same one that had been misfiring lately, not dismissing your point at all just curious .... was it Bell / more of Lussick / Batchelor ... mebbe a combo of all 3 ? Personally I think it was the extra space attracted by Batchelor, easing the mistrust of defence of Hurrell/Ritson (misplaced n last nights evidence) and also speed of execution from Bell
    Last edited by jefmeister2004; 21st April 2023 at 16:29.

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