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Thread: 8 point try clarity?

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    Default 8 point try clarity?

    Can anyone explain the rules on an 8 point penalty try? - especially as we have a glut of them and we're only up to round 4

    We've seen different decisions given for the same circumstances (no surprise there eh?)

    Saints v Leeds - Percival scores but has his head pulled in the act of scoring. Try but not an 8 point penalty try

    Warrington v Salford - Dufty scores but gets a slap across the chops in the act of scoring. Gets an 8 point penalty try

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Yellow Giraffe's Avatar
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    They should've either both been 8 point tries or neither of them.

    The rules state if a player fouls an opponent who is touching down for a try, a penalty kick at goal shall be taken from in front of the goal posts after the attempt to convert the try.

    So in both instances you have mentioned, a high tackle would presumably have been given anywhere else on the field, so for them to ignore the Percival one makes no sense to me.

    I personally have no problem with them being given but the key is consistency. You can't give some and not others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    They should've either both been 8 point tries or neither of them.

    The rules state if a player fouls an opponent who is touching down for a try, a penalty kick at goal shall be taken from in front of the goal posts after the attempt to convert the try.

    So in both instances you have mentioned, a high tackle would presumably have been given anywhere else on the field, so for them to ignore the Percival one makes no sense to me.

    I personally have no problem with them being given but the key is consistency. You can't give some and not others.
    I suppose the difference is in the interpretation/competency of the ref?

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    Quote Originally Posted by V_v_V View Post
    I suppose the difference is in the interpretation/competency of the ref?
    Yeah that's true, as is the case with most decisions to be fair. But it's frustrating as a supporter seeing 2 given the night before we are denied one (in a game we lost by 1 point!)
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    I've wondered about this for years. Defenders seem to see it as open season on try scorers and sometimes support players in preventing a try. This seems to be exacerbated by the fact that refs do nothing about it. Offences that would be a clear penalty in open play are completely ignored. I think it should be much more widely used to stop petulant defenders having a cheap shot out of frustration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Yeah that's true, as is the case with most decisions to be fair. But it's frustrating as a supporter seeing 2 given the night before we are denied one (in a game we lost by 1 point!)
    Right with you (and probably every other Saints fan) there. It seemed the ref and VR were paying more attention to the obstruction/holding on to the player leading up to the Percy try. I'm all for the RFL tightening up on rules to increase player safety but such a pity its done so inconsistently. Most seasons we start of with refs super keen on a particular aspect then they ease off as clubs get the message. Lets see how this one goes.

    Thanks for looking up and posting the rule YG

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    I,ve always thought an 8 pt try was when a player fouls after the act of scoring. Dufty got one around the chops a second after he got the ball down, Percival one he hadn't got the ball down at the stage he was having neck stretched beyond its limits. Should have been a yellow card to the Leeds player though in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I,ve always thought an 8 pt try was when a player fouls after the act of scoring. Dufty got one around the chops a second after he got the ball down, Percival one he hadn't got the ball down at the stage he was having neck stretched beyond its limits. Should have been a yellow card to the Leeds player though in my opinion.
    It's in the act of scoring. Without watching the Dufty one back I thought Watkins caught him before he grounded the ball anyway. I remember a few years back Gareth Raynor catching Tomkins with a corker at Odsal in similar circumstances. Think that was a red card and an 8 point try.
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    Learning All The Songs Brian Nazareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V_v_V View Post
    Can anyone explain the rules on an 8 point penalty try? - especially as we have a glut of them and we're only up to round 4

    We've seen different decisions given for the same circumstances (no surprise there eh?)

    Saints v Leeds - Percival scores but has his head pulled in the act of scoring. Try but not an 8 point penalty try

    Warrington v Salford - Dufty scores but gets a slap across the chops in the act of scoring. Gets an 8 point penalty try

    The Dufty one I thought was harsh anyway, as the Salford player was diving for the man to tackle him, and Dufty's slid for the line. Looked a glancing blow at most - but, of course, he made the most of it (like Myler and certain other Leeds players did)

    The question is, do we adopt similar 'wendyball' gamesmanship tactics to try to con the ref? Or do we take the moral position, but risk losing out in terms of points?

    That Leeds game was a prime example. Leeds players - and I swear it's a coached tactic - went down like they'd been shot every time there was even a hint of anything late or high. Kendall, of course, lapped it up. We had two examples - the Percival try and the shoulder charge on Lees - that should have been penalties and very likely 4 points. But both players just got up and continued. Kendall ignored the fouls (indeed, penalised Welsby for trying to draw attention to the Lees incident)

    That, ultimately, cost us the game.

    Cheating prevailed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Nazareth View Post
    ... I swear it's a coached tactic - went down like they'd been shot...
    A long time ago I used to coach a junior football team. One week we played against a team, rumour had it, the coach would shout a certain code word, usually when their player was tackled in the penalty box, and the player would drop to the ground, resulting in a penalty. It went well for them... until the day 3 of their players all heard the shout and all dropped, 2 of which having no other players even near them So, yes, coached, I agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Nazareth View Post
    The Dufty one I thought was harsh anyway, as the Salford player was diving for the man to tackle him, and Dufty's slid for the line. Looked a glancing blow at most - but, of course, he made the most of it (like Myler and certain other Leeds players did)

    The question is, do we adopt similar 'wendyball' gamesmanship tactics to try to con the ref? Or do we take the moral position, but risk losing out in terms of points?

    That Leeds game was a prime example. Leeds players - and I swear it's a coached tactic - went down like they'd been shot every time there was even a hint of anything late or high. Kendall, of course, lapped it up. We had two examples - the Percival try and the shoulder charge on Lees - that should have been penalties and very likely 4 points. But both players just got up and continued. Kendall ignored the fouls (indeed, penalised Welsby for trying to draw attention to the Lees incident)

    That, ultimately, cost us the game.

    Cheating prevailed.
    Watkins caught Dufty to the face. They were both going low, (not like where the attacker slips and the defender accidentally catches him). I think it was reckless rather than deliberate, but that is still a penalty. Nothing to do with Dufty “milking it” you don’t need an injury for a penalty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by V_v_V View Post
    I suppose the difference is in the interpretation/competency of the ref?
    It was doubly frustrating as the offical who was the video ref at our game was the one who sent the two tries up as penalty tries the night before at Wire. I understand that different officials may have different interpretations, but it's a bit rich when the same geezer sees the same thing one night but treats it differently the next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie McWolf View Post
    Watkins caught Dufty to the face. They were both going low, (not like where the attacker slips and the defender accidentally catches him). I think it was reckless rather than deliberate, but that is still a penalty. Nothing to do with Dufty “milking it” you don’t need an injury for a penalty.
    He did catch him - although it didn't seem that much of a biff (accepted that tv replays/angles can be deceptive). I agree that I don't think Watkins meant it, so reckless is perhaps fair. No worse than what you see in most games, though, with nothing given.

    My point was more that, with Dufty staying down and holding his face, it drew the ref's attention, sort of forcing him to act. We saw that with Leeds players several times. Almost always Kendall fell for it.
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    I find that people confuse the two - an 8-point try and a Penalty Try are two different things aren't they?

    An 8-point try is when a try is scored but there is a penalty worthy offence in the act of scoring

    A penalty try is when a try is not scored but it was an offence, such as tackling a player without the ball, that was the only thing that prevented the try

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    I find that people confuse the two - an 8-point try and a Penalty Try are two different things aren't they?

    An 8-point try is when a try is scored but there is a penalty worthy offence in the act of scoring

    A penalty try is when a try is not scored but it was an offence, such as tackling a player without the ball, that was the only thing that prevented the try

    I think we all here understand the difference.

    The 8-point try should have been awarded against the Leeds player trying to detach Percival's head from his torso as Percival was in the act of scoring (if we use the two examples in the Wire game as the yardstick).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Nazareth View Post
    I think we all here understand the difference.

    The 8-point try should have been awarded against the Leeds player trying to detach Percival's head from his torso as Percival was in the act of scoring (if we use the two examples in the Wire game as the yardstick).
    They way Percy’s head went reminded me of the Exorcist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    They way Percy’s head went reminded me of the Exorcist.



    "Your mother cooks socks in Hull!!"

    I think the line was. Something like that, anyway.
    Last edited by Brian Nazareth; 10th March 2023 at 18:11.
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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    I find that people confuse the two - an 8-point try and a Penalty Try are two different things aren't they?

    An 8-point try is when a try is scored but there is a penalty worthy offence in the act of scoring

    A penalty try is when a try is not scored but it was an offence, such as tackling a player without the ball, that was the only thing that prevented the try

    Yeah, I initially wrote 8 point try (as in the title) then changed my question to include penalty try... but didnt separate the two the way I wrote it. I agree with your explanation, thanks

    Iff the conversion is missed for an 8 point try - does it just become 4 points plus 2 if the penalty kick goes over? (which being under the sticks is almost nailed on).

    We need a dummies guide of rugby league rules!

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    Quote Originally Posted by V_v_V View Post
    Yeah, I initially wrote 8 point try (as in the title) then changed my question to include penalty try... but didnt separate the two the way I wrote it. I agree with your explanation, thanks

    Iff the conversion is missed for an 8 point try - does it just become 4 points plus 2 if the penalty kick goes over? (which being under the sticks is almost nailed on).

    We need a dummies guide of rugby league rules!
    Yes. You basically get 2 chances to kick for 2 points, 1 from where the try is scored as normal and then 1 under the sticks.

    With penalty tries you just get 1 conversion and this is also under the sticks (I think, but not certain on that).
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Yes. You basically get 2 chances to kick for 2 points, 1 from where the try is scored as normal and then 1 under the sticks.

    With penalty tries you just get 1 conversion and this is also under the sticks (I think, but not certain on that).
    Yes a penalty try is always awarded under the sticks and the conversion is taken from there

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Yes. You basically get 2 chances to kick for 2 points, 1 from where the try is scored as normal and then 1 under the sticks.

    With penalty tries you just get 1 conversion and this is also under the sticks (I think, but not certain on that).
    I guess the reasoning here is that you can't say where a 'normal' type of conversion would be taken from if there's no actual grounding of the ball over the try line?

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    Quote Originally Posted by V_v_V View Post
    We need a dummies guide of rugby league rules!
    I’m often called worse.

    Scenario 1 - Les Quirk is 2m out with a clear run at the line when Mark Forster clobbers him in the mush. Les drops the ball as they both crash over. Referee adjudges that the try would have been scored and so a Penalty Try is awarded, under the sticks.

    Scenario 2 - Anthony Sullivan is 2m out with a clear run at the line when Brett Dallas clobbers him in the mush. Sully grounds the ball as they both crash over. Referee adjudges that the try has been scored and immediately after the conversion (taken in line with the grounding) offers a penalty against the ginger ninja.

    Both scenarios award a try and 4 points. Scenario 1 also awards a conversion and a maximum 6 points on the board, scenario 2 awards a conversion and a penalty, a maximum of 8 points on the board, hence the colloquialism 8 point try.

    In both cases you would not want to see Don Fox lining up the kicks.


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    Warrington got yet another 8 pointer last night. Used to be rare as rocking horse sh1t!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    Warrington got yet another 8 pointer last night. Used to be rare as rocking horse sh1t!
    Is this an experimental pilot thing by the RFL involving one or two clubs.

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    Learning All The Songs Brian Nazareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Is this an experimental pilot thing by the RFL involving one or two clubs.
    I said in another thread that they seem to be this season's darlings, getting soft and 50:50 calls going their way.

    It's almost like Sky and the RL authorities want to create a story narrative...
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