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Thread: 21 man squad v Hull FC

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Yellow Giraffe's Avatar
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    Default 21 man squad v Hull FC

    https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2023/03/1...sting-hull-fc/

    IN: Curtis Sironen
    OUT: Lewis Baxter

    1.Jack Welsby, 2. Tommy Makinson, 4. Mark Percival, 5. Jon Bennison, 6. Jonny Lomax, 7. Lewis Dodd, 8. Alex Walmsley, 9. James Roby, 10. Matty Lees, 13. Morgan Knowles, 14. Joey Lussick, 15. Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook, 16. Curtis Sironen, 17. Agnatius Passi, 18. Jake Wingfield, 19. James Bell, 20. Dan Norman, 21. Ben Davies, 22. Sam Royle, 25. Tee Ritson, 34. Wesley Bruines.

    I thought Royle was decent v Leigh but I expect he will be replaced by Sironen as the only change to the 17 this week.

    Welsby
    Makinson
    Davies
    Percival
    Bennison
    Lomax
    Dodd
    Walmsley
    Roby
    Lees
    Sironen
    Bell
    Knowles

    Lussick
    LMS
    Wingfield
    Paasi

    Ritson, Royle, Bruines and Norman to miss out.

    That's what I think he will do. I would personally play Ritson over Bennison and I'd be sorely tempted to throw Bruines in for Davies as he's just a slow plodder who offers nothing and wasn't particularly great defensively v Leigh either.
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    Need to change it up this week after a couple of poor weeks, give players like Ritson and Bruines a chance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigTuna View Post
    Need to change it up this week after a couple of poor weeks, give players like Ritson and Bruines a chance.
    Not sure Bruins is quite ready yet. He's got the makings of a very good centre, but looking at his Reserve team performance he was caught out a few times defensively. Personally i'd give him some more time to work on this aspect of his game while training with the 1st team, and then maybe start giving him some game time later on in the season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Toppy View Post
    Not sure Bruins is quite ready yet. He's got the makings of a very good centre, but looking at his Reserve team performance he was caught out a few times defensively. Personally i'd give him some more time to work on this aspect of his game while training with the 1st team, and then maybe start giving him some game time later on in the season.
    The thing with this is Davies was poor defensively v Leigh also so do we actually lose much by replacing him?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Toppy View Post
    Not sure Bruins is quite ready yet. He's got the makings of a very good centre, but looking at his Reserve team performance he was caught out a few times defensively. Personally i'd give him some more time to work on this aspect of his game while training with the 1st team, and then maybe start giving him some game time later on in the season.
    Maybe not, but will never know till he gets a game. As has been said, can't be any worse than Davies was last week against a promoted team.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigTuna View Post
    Need to change it up this week after a couple of poor weeks, give players like Ritson and Bruines a chance.
    I'm with BIG Tuna.

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    Welsby
    Makinson Bruines Percival Bennison
    Lomax Dodd
    Paasi Roby Lees
    Sironen Davies
    Knowles

    Lussick Wingfield Walmsley LMS

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Welsby
    Makinson Bruines Percival Bennison
    Lomax Dodd
    Paasi Roby Lees
    Sironen Davies
    Knowles

    Lussick Wingfield Walmsley LMS
    You've spelt Ritson incorrectly

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Welsby
    Makinson Bruines Percival Bennison
    Lomax Dodd
    Paasi Roby Lees
    Sironen Davies
    Knowles

    Lussick Wingfield Walmsley LMS
    Davies 2nd row rather than Bell ?

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    In my opinion Bruines is nowhere near ready.

    He looked really exposed in a reserve game I saw and his defence was poor.

    I'd go with the side TYG posted in original post. Looks the most balanced and strong from the options we have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2023/03/1...sting-hull-fc/

    IN: Curtis Sironen
    OUT: Lewis Baxter

    1.Jack Welsby, 2. Tommy Makinson, 4. Mark Percival, 5. Jon Bennison, 6. Jonny Lomax, 7. Lewis Dodd, 8. Alex Walmsley, 9. James Roby, 10. Matty Lees, 13. Morgan Knowles, 14. Joey Lussick, 15. Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook, 16. Curtis Sironen, 17. Agnatius Passi, 18. Jake Wingfield, 19. James Bell, 20. Dan Norman, 21. Ben Davies, 22. Sam Royle, 25. Tee Ritson, 34. Wesley Bruines.

    I thought Royle was decent v Leigh but I expect he will be replaced by Sironen as the only change to the 17 this week.

    Welsby
    Makinson
    Davies
    Percival
    Bennison
    Lomax
    Dodd
    Walmsley
    Roby
    Lees
    Sironen
    Bell
    Knowles

    Lussick
    LMS
    Wingfield
    Paasi

    Ritson, Royle, Bruines and Norman to miss out.

    That's what I think he will do. I would personally play Ritson over Bennison and I'd be sorely tempted to throw Bruines in for Davies as he's just a slow plodder who offers nothing and wasn't particularly great defensively v Leigh either.
    i think you're right about what he will do and I agree about what I would like him to do. I would also like to see somebody give Lussick a run for his money but there is nobody in this 21 to do that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    i think you're right about what he will do and I agree about what I would like him to do. I would also like to see somebody give Lussick a run for his money but there is nobody in this 21 to do that
    I feel sorry for Lussick in a way. There's only so much you can do in 10 minutes. At times I don't know why we bother with him on the bench if Wellens (and Woolf to be fair) are so reluctant to take Roby off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penrith Plonker View Post
    The thing is, generally, Roby is usually one of the best players on the pitch for however long he's there so you can see why. Added to that, Lussick hasn't been that great when he's had the chance.
    Roby looked gassed against Leigh and should have been rotated earlier, hopefully this was picked up on review because we need to start looking at rotating him more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    I feel sorry for Lussick in a way. There's only so much you can do in 10 minutes. At times I don't know why we bother with him on the bench if Wellens (and Woolf to be fair) are so reluctant to take Roby off.
    Problem is it's a pivotal role, needs to develop an understanding between himself and the other players, that can't be done in training or 20 minute stints.
    Surely Roby must retire at the end of this season so Lussick must have longer on the pitch.

    He needs to be starting then maybe Roby coming on to relieve.

    We need to stop depending on Roby, if not and he gets injured at a crucial part of the season we will be screwed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    Problem is it's a pivotal role, needs to develop an understanding between himself and the other players, that can't be done in training or 20 minute stints.
    Surely Roby must retire at the end of this season so Lussick must have longer on the pitch.

    He needs to be starting then maybe Roby coming on to relieve.

    We need to stop depending on Roby, if not and he gets injured at a crucial part of the season we will be screwed
    The problem with that is that he did start against Cas and Leeds (IIRC) but there were still no signs of him showing he had it in him, which is (presumably) why we felt we had to bring an obviously tired Roby back for the Leigh game (Leigh, FFS!)

    I'm afraid I don't really buy the 'he needs more than the odd 10 or 20 minutes here and there' line. Saints quality players don't hang around to be invited in, they demand their place (like eg. Wello pushed out Patch, Grace pushed out Swift, Hurrell demanded his first team slot, and Batchelor made it impossible to drop him in favour of Sironen or Matautia).

    On paper it looked a good signing, and I was as eager for Lussick to succeed as anyone, but I can't help thinking that if he was going to he would have made his move by now.

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    Sironen in for Royle feels like the only change.

    Swap Walmsley and Passi.

    Make the team that played poorly versus Leigh right their wrongs.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    I like Bennison, i personally think he would be better suited to fullback.

    A future 1 , 6 , 7 of him, Dodd and Welsby would be a good line up.


    But for this week, i would put Ritson on the wing. His speed will cause Hull some problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DewiSant View Post
    The problem with that is that he did start against Cas and Leeds (IIRC) but there were still no signs of him showing he had it in him, which is (presumably) why we felt we had to bring an obviously tired Roby back for the Leigh game (Leigh, FFS!)

    I'm afraid I don't really buy the 'he needs more than the odd 10 or 20 minutes here and there' line. Saints quality players don't hang around to be invited in, they demand their place (like eg. Wello pushed out Patch, Grace pushed out Swift, Hurrell demanded his first team slot, and Batchelor made it impossible to drop him in favour of Sironen or Matautia).

    On paper it looked a good signing, and I was as eager for Lussick to succeed as anyone, but I can't help thinking that if he was going to he would have made his move by now.
    The players you mention aren't playmaker it's a completely different role.

    Whether Lussick or Roby was on against Leeds wouldn't have changed Sironen Matautia or Hurrell getting cards, it wouldn't have stopped Welsby having a hissy fit and being penalised and didn't make Makinson miss a penalty that he wod have kicked 99% of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DewiSant View Post
    The problem with that is that he did start against Cas and Leeds (IIRC) but there were still no signs of him showing he had it in him, which is (presumably) why we felt we had to bring an obviously tired Roby back for the Leigh game (Leigh, FFS!)

    I'm afraid I don't really buy the 'he needs more than the odd 10 or 20 minutes here and there' line. Saints quality players don't hang around to be invited in, they demand their place (like eg. Wello pushed out Patch, Grace pushed out Swift, Hurrell demanded his first team slot, and Batchelor made it impossible to drop him in favour of Sironen or Matautia).

    On paper it looked a good signing, and I was as eager for Lussick to succeed as anyone, but I can't help thinking that if he was going to he would have made his move by now.
    You can't compare those players because they were all game sharp coming in. Wello and grace both were playing regularly in the academy when they got their chance so was in a good flow of play. Batchelor had odd appearances here and there and made no impact, it was only when he got a run of games with good time on the pitch he cemented himself - which supports the point about Lussick in itself. You just can't build any cohesion in your play with bit part minutes - he needs a run of 5-10 games playing at least 30/40 minutes before he can be judged properly, not 10 minutes here and there with the odd game when we rotate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sinkers89 View Post
    I like Bennison, i personally think he would be better suited to fullback.

    A future 1 , 6 , 7 of him, Dodd and Welsby would be a good line up.


    But for this week, i would put Ritson on the wing. His speed will cause Hull some problems.
    Agreed. Bennison isn't a winger and offers nothing there in attack. He can play there and anywhere in the backs for me as cover if we need him to, but he's not a long term option there. So I see no reason at all (Other than horses for courses in important games) to hurt Ritson's or a youth wingers development by sticking him there for a year or two. It does nothing for Bennison, it does nothing for the team and it does nothing from any potential academy prospects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    The players you mention aren't playmaker it's a completely different role.

    Whether Lussick or Roby was on against Leeds wouldn't have changed Sironen Matautia or Hurrell getting cards, it wouldn't have stopped Welsby having a hissy fit and being penalised and didn't make Makinson miss a penalty that he wod have kicked 99% of the time.
    But Lussick is in control of how he plays and what sort of impact he has on a game.

    I think the arguments regarding players forcing themselves into the starting line up is a fair argument.

    Dodd forcing his way into the team over Fages is a good example. Yes Fages was injured and on his way out but Dodd made the position his own. He took the opportunities he was given regardless of minutes or the position he was in.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    Sironen in for Royle feels like the only change.

    Swap Walmsley and Passi.

    Make the team that played poorly versus Leigh right their wrongs.
    Agree with this though personally I would give Ritson a go. Feel a bit sorry for Royle, I thought he did ok last week but doesn’t have the size to command a regular spot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    But Lussick is in control of how he plays and what sort of impact he has on a game.

    I think the arguments regarding players forcing themselves into the starting line up is a fair argument.

    Dodd forcing his way into the team over Fages is a good example. Yes Fages was injured and on his way out but Dodd made the position his own. He took the opportunities he was given regardless of minutes or the position he was in.
    Again though, Dodd only secured a starting spot over Fages once he had a run of games at 7 due to Fages injury and regular game time. Before then he wasn't deemed to be a better option.

    You just can't expect a player to perform at their peak when they aren't.playing regular minutes, they have absolutely no match sharpness. It's not about playing first team necessarily, but playing in general.
    Last edited by BackrowSaint; 15th March 2023 at 15:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Agree with this though personally I would give Ritson a go. Feel a bit sorry for Royle, I thought he did ok last week but doesn’t have the size to command a regular spot.
    I think it is a straight choice between Bennison and Ritson.

    Modern coaching leans towards giving players a run rather than chopping and changing. It depends if Wello believes Bennison has had a run and now it is time for Ritson to get a few games.

    I would like to see Ritson have a fair shot and come into a team playing well rather than be put under pressure. Hull FC do feel like a smaller risk but we will see.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    I read the comments about Ritson and some mention his defence but everyone knows thathe is fast , it reminds me about what some people used to say about Brian Bevan , ie he cant tackle he didnt need to he was to busyscoring tries.

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