Chapel House Motor Company Limited Advertising Banner
Page 9 of 14 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 225 of 326

Thread: Cunningham MK2

  1. #201
    Starting A Programme Collection
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Sthelens
    Posts
    669
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Nothing like throwing the baby out of the bath water. A prop to replace LMS, whose looking very “one season too far” at the moment and an actual, experienced winger (oh how I wished Grace hadn’t have messed us around and we would have been able to compete for Johnstone) would make a big difference to this team. But a centre isn’t getting in over Hurrell and Percival so would be pointless, and another hooker to sit on the bench for 70 minutes to Roby isn’t going to be any different to Lussick.
    Why do you need to displace your 1st choice at the start of the season experienced squad players are critical Percival & Hopoate missed most of last season so taking there place is a real possibility at some point in the season we've at present lost Walmsley Paasi Norman and LMS is at the end of his career therefore if we'd strengthed the pack as you should each season we might have better options we not even a quarter through season

  2. #202
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Bury
    Posts
    1,847
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CGSaint View Post
    I was thinking about Saints today.

    Really what motivation have some of these players got?
    They have absolutely pushed themselves to the limit to do what they have done in recent years.
    4 in a row was a real target becasue it hasn't been done, as was winning the WCC In OZ..

    I'm not saying they don't care.. but I'm not sure what motivation there is to push themselves to the limit and give that little extra effort they have been known for

    4 in a row had never been done, 5 in a row.. not sure that's a real Incentive..

    That positivity just doesn't seem to be there this year.
    it looks like everything was about winning the WCC and that's it for the season

  3. #203
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,220
    Rep Power
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Nothing like throwing the baby out of the bath water. A prop to replace LMS, whose looking very “one season too far” at the moment and an actual, experienced winger (oh how I wished Grace hadn’t have messed us around and we would have been able to compete for Johnstone) would make a big difference to this team. But a centre isn’t getting in over Hurrell and Percival so would be pointless, and another hooker to sit on the bench for 70 minutes to Roby isn’t going to be any different to Lussick.
    Slightly random but I would leave Lussick out and give Bell a try at hooker when Roby is spelled

    He can tackle and distribute and gets all over the pitch and would give us another option off the bench


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #204
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    11,188
    Rep Power
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by headtackle View Post
    Slightly random but I would leave Lussick out and give Bell a try at hooker when Roby is spelled

    He can tackle and distribute and gets all over the pitch and would give us another option off the bench


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Said the same about Bell last week, nothing much to lose with the minutes Lussick is doing.

  5. #205
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Harrogate
    Age
    33
    Posts
    7,965
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Said the same about Bell last week, nothing much to lose with the minutes Lussick is doing.
    Yep. No point having a 15 minute hooker. Essentially a waste of a sub.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  6. #206
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk STIDDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Kingdom of Wigoon
    Posts
    8,877
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Yep. No point having a 15 minute hooker. Essentially a waste of a sub.
    Roby is not playing his usual standard either, not helping our ruck speed getting the ball away.

  7. #207
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Stood at the back of Stand B in Knowsley Road
    Posts
    1,886
    Rep Power
    13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Yep. No point having a 15 minute hooker. Essentially a waste of a sub.
    Last season when Lussick came on Roby would often go to loose forward and Knowles would go off for a spell, so that was a usefull sub but this year that doesn't seem to happen.

    There was an interesting report by Jenna Brooks, I think it was prior to the Cass v Wakey game, that if Kruise Leeming doesn't make it in Australia he will return to UK and may join Saints or... I can't recall which other club she mentioned.

    Think I'd prefer to stick with Lussick but Leeming is a decent utility player

  8. #208
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    1,179
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    She just posed the question becasue of the retirement of Roby ..
    I'd love him at Saints
    NEVER WRITE OFF THE SAINTS
    Insta @christianjamescreative

  9. #209
    In The West Stand saintgeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    eccleston
    Posts
    5,258
    Rep Power
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    Last season when Lussick came on Roby would often go to loose forward and Knowles would go off for a spell, so that was a usefull sub but this year that doesn't seem to happen.

    There was an interesting report by Jenna Brooks, I think it was prior to the Cass v Wakey game, that if Kruise Leeming doesn't make it in Australia he will return to UK and may join Saints or... I can't recall which other club she mentioned.

    Think I'd prefer to stick with Lussick but Leeming is a decent utility player
    It was Catalan I think

  10. #210
    Got A Season Ticket Haydock Saint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Haydock
    Posts
    426
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Worrying times with a tough set of fixtures coming up.

    The attack has been poor since we returned from Australia. We are seeing long minutes or halves of games where we don't score any tries. It was like this back in 2018 when we stormed the league but at the back end of the season in the critical games teams had worked us out and we struggled to score tries. A lot of work is needed in this area.

  11. #211
    really is sorry Reacher's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Wigan
    Age
    48
    Posts
    11,967
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    I want Wellens to succeed as much as anyone. However we have a really hard set of fixtures coming up and its not beyond the realms of possibility that we are 4 from 4 losses at the end of this set of matches.

    We go to HKR on Friday and will be without Walmsley, Batchelor, Matuatia and Knowles. Thats going to be a hard game. With Norman injured we still don't really have any cover at prop so we are relying on a young lad like Delaney again or the likes of Wingfield playing front row for a time. His return is very timely (if indeed he is back for Friday)

    Should we lose the next 3 I do feel there will be some pressure on Wellens. Depending on results we could find ourselves in 7th or 8th and that's a hell of a fall from grace for a team that's won 4 in a row and the WCC

  12. #212
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Harrogate
    Age
    33
    Posts
    7,965
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    I want Wellens to succeed as much as anyone. However we have a really hard set of fixtures coming up and its not beyond the realms of possibility that we are 4 from 4 losses at the end of this set of matches.

    We go to HKR on Friday and will be without Walmsley, Batchelor, Matuatia and Knowles. Thats going to be a hard game. With Norman injured we still don't really have any cover at prop so we are relying on a young lad like Delaney again or the likes of Wingfield playing front row for a time. His return is very timely (if indeed he is back for Friday)

    Should we lose the next 3 I do feel there will be some pressure on Wellens. Depending on results we could find ourselves in 7th or 8th and that's a hell of a fall from grace for a team that's won 4 in a row and the WCC
    I wonder if he’ll consider using one of Lussick or Roby as a 13 for this one? Just a way of making the most out of our pack players we have available. Maybe start Paasi, Lussick, Lees, Sironen, Bell and Roby with a bench of LMS, Delaney, Wingfield and one of Royle/Baxter/Buckley.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  13. #213
    Got A Season Ticket BigTuna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Haydock
    Posts
    487
    Rep Power
    10

    Default

    Proof in the pudding again - good players or good assistants don't make for good coaches, especially at the top level!

    What happened to going to lower leagues/lesser teams for 3 or 4 years and proving you are worthy of a job at one of the top teams?
    I ate a tuna sandwich on my first day!

  14. #214
    Starting A Programme Collection
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    625
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    The next 3 games are just so big.

    I am very confident we will win Friday because we need it big time but if we don't.....

    I keep seeing on social medias about "We've won the WCC" so this means this is now all ok.

    If anything I think it's making it worse because this team won the WCC 2 months ago and now we've only beaten 4 of the bottom 5 and no one else yet. It shows how capable this team is and how far they've fallen in a short period of time.

    I think LF must take his fair share as well if he is in charge of the attack as that's the worst element for sure but now Wellens needs to step in and sort it himself if he is.

  15. #215
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,906
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesSL View Post
    The next 3 games are just so big.

    I am very confident we will win Friday because we need it big time but if we don't.....

    I keep seeing on social medias about "We've won the WCC" so this means this is now all ok.

    If anything I think it's making it worse because this team won the WCC 2 months ago and now we've only beaten 4 of the bottom 5 and no one else yet. It shows how capable this team is and how far they've fallen in a short period of time.

    I think LF must take his fair share as well if he is in charge of the attack as that's the worst element for sure but now Wellens needs to step in and sort it himself if he is.
    Under Woolf we would be confident in 2/3 wins. But now Wello has us playing shockingly bad. Our attack is one of the worst.

  16. #216
    In The South Stand
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    4,339
    Rep Power
    18

    Default

    I think given the Knowles news yesterday, we've got to be realistic and admit that it's very likely we'll lose 2 of the next 3 games, if not all 3. We could be as low as 10th in the table following the Catalans game if we're not careful.

    I've said all season this year might be one too far for the squad given the lack of recruitment to freshen things up and that circumstances just aren't going our way. The World Cup, WCC, injuries and suspensions as well as decisions at key points in games have all gone against us. So there are plenty of excuses at the moment, but it is also pretty undeniable that we look a poor side in comparison to last season. We just look flat and lifeless in attack and that bit less intense and aggressive in defense as well. Standards around the club seem to be slipping too, lots of little signs (Minor and individually irrelevant) it's not as professional and intense as it was under Woolf.

    Given what happened with Cunningham and the similarities we're seeing in the performances under Wello, will the club wait as long as they did with Keiron? Or will they bite the bullet sooner? It's not going to go down well if we do drop to 9th or 10th and it could end up giving us a season like Warrington's last year where confidence drops and we just come off the rails as the realisation hits that it's pointless as we're not going to win it this year. I'm in two minds, I think he's been hamstrung by the situation (WC, WCC etc) recruitment mistakes and an ageing squad, but he's also not getting enough out of them. I'm starting to think it's inevitable Wellens isn't a success and it's just a matter of time, which would be a massive shame. This squad has been sensational, arguably the best in our history and seeing it start to break up with a poor season wouldn't be fitting. Roby going out on a finish outside the playoffs is unimaginable.

    Does anyone still think we'll win the next three? We clearly still have the ability within the squad to turn it around and make this season a success, but we've not seen much sign yet.

  17. #217
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,906
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Can't see us winning the next 3. As for getting rid of Wello early would be harsh as he has inherited an aging squad. I'll wait for what signings are coming for next yr first. BUT if he does not go far in the cup and we don't make the playoffs then he can GO at end of season.

  18. #218
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk STIDDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Kingdom of Wigoon
    Posts
    8,877
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    I think given the Knowles news yesterday, we've got to be realistic and admit that it's very likely we'll lose 2 of the next 3 games, if not all 3. We could be as low as 10th in the table following the Catalans game if we're not careful.

    I've said all season this year might be one too far for the squad given the lack of recruitment to freshen things up and that circumstances just aren't going our way. The World Cup, WCC, injuries and suspensions as well as decisions at key points in games have all gone against us. So there are plenty of excuses at the moment, but it is also pretty undeniable that we look a poor side in comparison to last season. We just look flat and lifeless in attack and that bit less intense and aggressive in defense as well. Standards around the club seem to be slipping too, lots of little signs (Minor and individually irrelevant) it's not as professional and intense as it was under Woolf.

    Given what happened with Cunningham and the similarities we're seeing in the performances under Wello, will the club wait as long as they did with Keiron? Or will they bite the bullet sooner? It's not going to go down well if we do drop to 9th or 10th and it could end up giving us a season like Warrington's last year where confidence drops and we just come off the rails as the realisation hits that it's pointless as we're not going to win it this year. I'm in two minds, I think he's been hamstrung by the situation (WC, WCC etc) recruitment mistakes and an ageing squad, but he's also not getting enough out of them. I'm starting to think it's inevitable Wellens isn't a success and it's just a matter of time, which would be a massive shame. This squad has been sensational, arguably the best in our history and seeing it start to break up with a poor season wouldn't be fitting. Roby going out on a finish outside the playoffs is unimaginable.

    Does anyone still think we'll win the next three? We clearly still have the ability within the squad to turn it around and make this season a success, but we've not seen much sign yet.
    The only thing I,m seeing at the moment is that we are creeping into a "square pegs in round holes" scenario which we got under both Brown and Cunningham. Another observation is that quite a few players have frustration expressions on their faces and a few players getting annoyed with their own players.

    Its all suggesting all these small changes in player selection, new coaches, composure is effecting our "team togetherness" and we can't break out of it which is effecting team spirit and creating self imposed pressure.

    We are quite capable of winning the next 2 games, Hull KR have lost 2 good forwards for the Friday game and I imagine the Warrington game will be similar to the Wigoon game but we have home advantage.

    Foot Note: Sironen or Lees are due for a match ban, have the disciplinary already got the incident sheet made out for one of them.

  19. #219
    Learning All The Songs Brian Nazareth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Posts
    1,238
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Far too early to make comparisons, although he does seem to be falling into the trap of sticking with what he perceives to be 'safety first' team selections & tactics. One similarity is both had fast, exciting wingers in the squad but seemed reluctant to play them for fear of possible defensive frailties

    At first, Cunningham's teams didn't play the turgid, boring, ineffective rugby he later reverted to. It was only when results began to slip away that I think he panicked for his job and pulled up the drawbridge.

    I don't want Wellens to fall into that trap, but he's inherited a much different - and far better - side. He's so far just seemed to copy the Woolfball playbook. The initial problem was that the players, after the WCC win (where they played the right balance of defensive steel, quick line speed, and attacking prowess) struggled initially in the SL games. We have talked about fatigue, and many have dismissed that as just an excuse. I personally think the fatigue now is a mental fatigue.

    Players have won it all. They've done it tough, too, playing a physically robust way, and having to cover a number of injuries. They were all up for the NRL games; these were new, there was a big prize immediately on the line. Coming back to the UK, knowing they have to climb the long season mountain again... it's tough to retain the same level of motivation as when you were hungry for trophies. I imagine also there could also be a sense of being able to win matches in 2nd/3rd gear for most of the game (as we did at times with Woolf). When participating in sport at the top level, small margins make big differences. Even a 5% drop-off in intensity can lead to problems.

    Then we have the opening few games. We struggled for defensive solidity against Cas but still ended up winning comfortably. Many pundits marked this as a huge banana skin after the travelling; probably gave a false sense of superiority to the players. Who knew then how poor Cas would turn out to be? Even against Leeds we were the more dominant team, but couldn't shake them off (not helped by their play-acting and two sin-binnings). The loss, though, was ultimately down to a refereeing travesty, and I think that loss dented confidence amongst the players. Leigh, and we face a team scenting blood from us and wanting to put on a show at their home ground. Again, although to a lesser extent, a wrong ref decision turns the game against us. Players begin to seconbd guess themselves (and, I assume, the officials and their agendas)

    I think any plans Wellens and the coaching team had for the team's evolution over the opening third/half of the season went out the window at that point. Was a case of getting points on the board and keeping in contention with the top 2/4. It was a case of sticking to what you - and the players - know.

    It's far too early to be getting on Wellens' back. But I do hope he has plans to improve our attacking, which is too one-dimensional and easy to defend. We're averaging scoring less than 20 points per game and that includes a bit of a blow-out against Wakey (take that out, and it's less than 17 points). For comparison, Warrington average 31.5.

    Under Woolf, we would physically dominate teams into submission. A combination of our players not being quite at the same intensity, officials pinging us for trivialities (that other teams don't seem to suffer with), and opposition teams both increasing their effort against us to try to take down the World Champs and playing around our once-formidable 'middle', means that we haven't been able to do that too many times this season. We need a 'plan B', which must include better attacking tactics.
    He's not the Messiah, he's a naughty boy.

  20. #220
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    11,188
    Rep Power
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rommel View Post
    Can't see us winning the next 3. As for getting rid of Wello early would be harsh as he has inherited an aging squad. I'll wait for what signings are coming for next yr first. BUT if he does not go far in the cup and we don't make the playoffs then he can GO at end of season.
    I don’t see any way that Wellens will go this year.

  21. #221
    Banned Gerry Mander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Around the Ruck. Winning the Collision.
    Posts
    3,223
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I don’t see any way that Wellens will go this year.
    Never in question. He will be the coach at the start of 2024.

    However what is in question are the decisions to be made now over attack and recruitment/retention.
    These will have an impact (potentially spanning several seasons) regardless of how long he remains in post.

    Will saints bounce back in 2023 or will they fall away and entered a rebuild phase?

  22. #222
    In The South Stand
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    4,339
    Rep Power
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I don’t see any way that Wellens will go this year.
    He'll have to if results don't improve? If we go out of the cup early and slip out of the play offs, he has to go?

  23. #223
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk STIDDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Kingdom of Wigoon
    Posts
    8,877
    Rep Power
    22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    Never in question. He will be the coach at the start of 2024.

    However what is in question are the decisions to be made now over attack and recruitment/retention.
    These will have an impact (potentially spanning several seasons) regardless of how long he remains in post.

    Will saints bounce back in 2023 or will they fall away and entered a rebuild phase?
    I agree Wello will be given more time to settle in and start some transition for next year. Can't see that situation for our assistant coaches though, Laurent Frayssinous could be the sacrificial lamb being our attack coach and that particular attribute looks poor at the moment.

  24. #224
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    In the kitchen, trying to remember why I came here.
    Posts
    374
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Nazareth View Post
    Far too early to make comparisons, although he does seem to be falling into the trap of sticking with what he perceives to be 'safety first' team selections & tactics. One similarity is both had fast, exciting wingers in the squad but seemed reluctant to play them for fear of possible defensive frailties

    At first, Cunningham's teams didn't play the turgid, boring, ineffective rugby he later reverted to. It was only when results began to slip away that I think he panicked for his job and pulled up the drawbridge.

    I don't want Wellens to fall into that trap, but he's inherited a much different - and far better - side. He's so far just seemed to copy the Woolfball playbook. The initial problem was that the players, after the WCC win (where they played the right balance of defensive steel, quick line speed, and attacking prowess) struggled initially in the SL games. We have talked about fatigue, and many have dismissed that as just an excuse. I personally think the fatigue now is a mental fatigue.

    Players have won it all. They've done it tough, too, playing a physically robust way, and having to cover a number of injuries. They were all up for the NRL games; these were new, there was a big prize immediately on the line. Coming back to the UK, knowing they have to climb the long season mountain again... it's tough to retain the same level of motivation as when you were hungry for trophies. I imagine also there could also be a sense of being able to win matches in 2nd/3rd gear for most of the game (as we did at times with Woolf). When participating in sport at the top level, small margins make big differences. Even a 5% drop-off in intensity can lead to problems.

    Then we have the opening few games. We struggled for defensive solidity against Cas but still ended up winning comfortably. Many pundits marked this as a huge banana skin after the travelling; probably gave a false sense of superiority to the players. Who knew then how poor Cas would turn out to be? Even against Leeds we were the more dominant team, but couldn't shake them off (not helped by their play-acting and two sin-binnings). The loss, though, was ultimately down to a refereeing travesty, and I think that loss dented confidence amongst the players. Leigh, and we face a team scenting blood from us and wanting to put on a show at their home ground. Again, although to a lesser extent, a wrong ref decision turns the game against us. Players begin to seconbd guess themselves (and, I assume, the officials and their agendas)

    I think any plans Wellens and the coaching team had for the team's evolution over the opening third/half of the season went out the window at that point. Was a case of getting points on the board and keeping in contention with the top 2/4. It was a case of sticking to what you - and the players - know.

    It's far too early to be getting on Wellens' back. But I do hope he has plans to improve our attacking, which is too one-dimensional and easy to defend. We're averaging scoring less than 20 points per game and that includes a bit of a blow-out against Wakey (take that out, and it's less than 17 points). For comparison, Warrington average 31.5.

    Under Woolf, we would physically dominate teams into submission. A combination of our players not being quite at the same intensity, officials pinging us for trivialities (that other teams don't seem to suffer with), and opposition teams both increasing their effort against us to try to take down the World Champs and playing around our once-formidable 'middle', means that we haven't been able to do that too many times this season. We need a 'plan B', which must include better attacking tactics.
    Agree with pretty much every word of that, especially the bits highlighted, and especially the third of them. I think the wheels came off at Leigh and we've been struggling to get them back on ever since.

    Napoleon always said that the most important characteristic in a general was that he was lucky. Woolf was obviously very good, but he was also (in my view) lucky. I think he got lucky in the 2019 GF and in 2020, when things still weren't working out, he got lucky tjat the Covid break gave him time to rethink. Wello doesn't seem to have the same kind of luck. He's been unlucky with injuries, suspensions and refereeing decisions, not to mention the fact that there have been significant improvements to a number of teams. He isn't going to get a Covid type break to give him breathing space so he's going to have to sort them out as best he can on the hoof. That's a big ask but he can't be judged on what's happened, only on how he responds.

    For now I'll stay optimistic, but if I see the same team on Friday playing the same tactics I think I'll start to worry (even if we do manage to nick a win)

  25. #225
    Learning All The Songs Brian Nazareth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Posts
    1,238
    Rep Power
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DewiSant View Post
    Napoleon always said that the most important characteristic in a general was that he was lucky.

    Bizarrely, that very quote was meandering around my head when I was typing my post!



    (PS - it was the 2020 GF where we had a bit of luck Vs Wigan; Holbrook led us to GF glory in 2019 against Salford)
    He's not the Messiah, he's a naughty boy.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •