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Thread: Cunningham MK2

  1. #126
    Learning All The Songs RJM25R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penrith Plonker View Post
    Commenting on current form isn't fickle. Are you suggesting we write the rest of the season off because we've won something or fans turn up blindly and not voice an opinion? Jesus wept, some people on here are tapped.
    I’m all for commenting on form and having opinions about the team and performance’s but to suggest Wellens isn’t up to the job after half a dozen games, as some of the same people said about Woolf if you cast your mind back, is ludicrous.

    The sense of entitlement is ironic, if you think back to 2007-2013 where we sometimes blew teams away early in the season only to run out of steam at the back end and in some instances win a shield or naff all.


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    *except the WCC that we tucked up in February :-)
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  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    I’m all for commenting on form and having opinions about the team and performance’s but to suggest Wellens isn’t up to the job after half a dozen games, as some of the same people said about Woolf if you cast your mind back, is ludicrous.

    The sense of entitlement is ironic, if you think back to 2007-2013 where we sometimes blew teams away early in the season only to run out of steam at the back end and in some instances win a shield or naff all.


    Nobody wins anything by April*










    *except the WCC that we tucked up in February :-)
    We get this "Doom and Gloom" period near enough every year leading up to Easter, fans can have opinions but don't just expect or demand to be entertained every week with exciting rugby, its not going to be happen. Teams lose form, teams lose games but some fans don't want to accept that despite players putting in a lot of effort, if our team doesn't show the latter then its justified to be be more critical.

    Its an enormous challenge to go back to back for 5 years on the run, like Wello said recently Superleague needs to raise the bar rather than lower the ceiling. We are seeing a bit of that now with the likes of Warrington, Wigan, Catalans, Huddersfield, Salford and Hull KR joining the party instead of previous years when its mostly been Wigan or the Catalans.

    We do have a few fickle fans on here who have very little tolerance when the team doesn't play well, if they in their opinion find it not acceptable they could on a temporary basis be a Warrington Fan for a couple of months until our team gets back to an acceptable standard.

  3. #128
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    Whether or not Wello succeeds it’s way too early to know. I and a few others had reservations about Woolf. Even after we won the 2020 grand final supporters were still critical of him. I admit I was way too quick to write him off.
    A new coach isn’t going to click instantly. It’s like getting a new boss at work. Change feels alien. It may take Wello a few months before his way of doing things really registers with the players. It could take them time to appreciate what he brings.
    A couple of months isn’t long enough to make a decision on a coach.
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  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Whether or not Wello succeeds it’s way too early to know. I and a few others had reservations about Woolf. Even after we won the 2020 grand final supporters were still critical of him. I admit I was way too quick to write him off.
    A new coach isn’t going to click instantly. It’s like getting a new boss at work. Change feels alien. It may take Wello a few months before his way of doing things really registers with the players. It could take them time to appreciate what he brings.
    A couple of months isn’t long enough to make a decision on a coach.
    I think that's a fair point, however, don't forget the whole reason for appointing Wello was that the transition should be/have been as seamless as it could possibly be. He's been around for so long that there should be nothing alien about it other than a different voice. Standards are something that Woolf was very strict on and he had that authoritarian aura about him that screamed 'woe betide you if you step outside' - genuinely don't know how much Wello will be able to command that.

    I am neither here nor there at the moment, I want the bloke to succeed very much but I am acutely aware that appointing ex-players as coaches is a high-risk strategy, especially given it's his first gig. If it doesn't work out then McManus and Rush will be fully accountable, as indeed they should take the plaudits if it does. I am actually wondering more about why on earth we appointed Frayssinous - now he is a new face and voice which in terms of our attack thus far has produced the square root of nothing.

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Whether or not Wello succeeds it’s way too early to know. I and a few others had reservations about Woolf. Even after we won the 2020 grand final supporters were still critical of him. I admit I was way too quick to write him off.
    A new coach isn’t going to click instantly. It’s like getting a new boss at work. Change feels alien. It may take Wello a few months before his way of doing things really registers with the players. It could take them time to appreciate what he brings.
    A couple of months isn’t long enough to make a decision on a coach.
    Completely agree that things take time and far too early to form strong opinions either way.

    However change by definition means that something different is being developed and tried/applied.


    A quote below from the wakefield thread relates to a question of how ritson went in the reserves.
    It is very telling.

    I'm happy for new things to take time and experience some pain along the way, however I think there is a danger
    that change is just maseqerading as trying stick with the same limited attack.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyarchie View Post
    Scored a try from 5 yards out and that was about it - we had Bruines and Ritson on our right edge and the ball just never came that way - a bit of a waste really. BUT Bruines looks a unit and he did look a class act with the few touches he had
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  6. #131
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Scouse Don's Avatar
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    I think we need to be realistic and accept that Wello has a rebuilding job on his hands with a significant number of the first team over and or approaching the 30 mark and rumours of Dodd looking to the NRL and possibly Welsby wanting a look at some point. Matautia is apparently going home.So we are going to need a bit of patience. But we've been here before and with everyone fit we are still the team to beat.
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  7. #132
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    Fear the Vee, did you go to the game? if so Ashton bears could have nilled this very poor Wakefield side, the scoreline is not always a good indicator of what shape a team are in . For me there was no urgency no line speed , very little backing up and hardly any kick chase, all these attributes are what we have come to expect over the last few seasons. Of course it is all opinion, I want Wello to succeed as much as anyone but I just feel there is something seriously missing since we won the WCC whether that is down to coaching staff, WCC hangover or dip in form I don't know. If you are happy with the level of performance from our team at the moment then I am glad you are not coaching us, I guess I could equally be eating my own words after the next four games, I hope so.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dash Riprock View Post
    Fear the Vee, did you go to the game? if so Ashton bears could have nilled this very poor Wakefield side, the scoreline is not always a good indicator of what shape a team are in . For me there was no urgency no line speed , very little backing up and hardly any kick chase, all these attributes are what we have come to expect over the last few seasons. Of course it is all opinion, I want Wello to succeed as much as anyone but I just feel there is something seriously missing since we won the WCC whether that is down to coaching staff, WCC hangover or dip in form I don't know. If you are happy with the level of performance from our team at the moment then I am glad you are not coaching us, I guess I could equally be eating my own words after the next four games, I hope so.
    Don’t be stupid Ashton bears would not nil or come close to beating Wakefield. Very exaggerated and silly but i suppose it fits your narrative

  9. #134
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weetabix View Post
    I think that's a fair point, however, don't forget the whole reason for appointing Wello was that the transition should be/have been as seamless as it could possibly be. He's been around for so long that there should be nothing alien about it other than a different voice. Standards are something that Woolf was very strict on and he had that authoritarian aura about him that screamed 'woe betide you if you step outside' - genuinely don't know how much Wello will be able to command that.

    I am neither here nor there at the moment, I want the bloke to succeed very much but I am acutely aware that appointing ex-players as coaches is a high-risk strategy, especially given it's his first gig. If it doesn't work out then McManus and Rush will be fully accountable, as indeed they should take the plaudits if it does. I am actually wondering more about why on earth we appointed Frayssinous - now he is a new face and voice which in terms of our attack thus far has produced the square root of nothing.

    I was and still am in favour of Wellens as coach. You mentioned standards under Woolf and it must be obvious to everyone at Saints that our line speed is nowhere near what it was defensively. It maybe because we knew we were just going to drive it in the first 3 tackles but we had players just strolling back to get onside at our PTB’s.

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dash Riprock View Post
    Fear the Vee, did you go to the game? if so Ashton bears could have nilled this very poor Wakefield side, the scoreline is not always a good indicator of what shape a team are in . For me there was no urgency no line speed , very little backing up and hardly any kick chase, all these attributes are what we have come to expect over the last few seasons. Of course it is all opinion, I want Wello to succeed as much as anyone but I just feel there is something seriously missing since we won the WCC whether that is down to coaching staff, WCC hangover or dip in form I don't know. If you are happy with the level of performance from our team at the moment then I am glad you are not coaching us, I guess I could equally be eating my own words after the next four games, I hope so.
    I didn’t say I was happy with the level of performance, I said criticising this team for effort levels is daft.


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  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benyon View Post
    Don’t be stupid Ashton bears would not nil or come close to beating Wakefield. Very exaggerated and silly but i suppose it fits your narrative
    Chill Mr Benyon it was tongue in cheek (very exaggerated) comparison, after all Ashton bears are young kids, I was trying to make the point due to a comment by Fear The Vee that the scoreline on the night was only half of the tale and he could not understand being critical of a 38-0 scoreline. Wello himself stated he was looking for a performance rather than a blow out score, maybe i am being over critical but the majority of fans sat by me felt disappointed on Friday night with that performance. Losing big Al after 3 minutes did not help but the team just seems rather flat since the WCC and I was just commenting on the difference in energy levels between Wigan,Warrington at the moment compared to us. All I said originally was that I was worried about the Good Friday game against Wigan, living in Ashton is never easy when the Pies are in the Ascendancy, maybe having Kendall ref the game meant we had to keep the intensity in check. Hopefully normal service will be resumed a.s.a.p. COYS

  12. #137
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    I expect us to find a couple of extra gears on Friday.
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

  13. #138
    Learning All The Songs saint mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    I expect us to find a couple of extra gears on Friday.
    If we don’t find a couple of gears on Friday then I will start to worry.I fully expect us to do so though.

  14. #139
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    Saints never really got out of second gear on friday and in reality, didnt need to.

    Wakey where never going to cause us problems. We didnt need to be "high intensity" , we just needed to be methodical. Bit boring perhaps, but we just needed to come through with no bans/injuries and barring Walmsley, it looks like we achieved that.

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    At the end of the WCC Celebration dinner, Wello said ‘winning that trophy was like climbing Everest and succeeding. We are now going to climb Everest again - on Friday’
    He got a standing ovation for that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    My only worry is if he’s capable of being detached enough from them to be ruthless. He’s been there for years and played for years with the likes of Lomax, Makinson, Roby and Walmsley.

    I can’t imagine Woolf being worried about administering bollockings or saying a few home truths.

    I’ve noticed on the pics from last night WCC celebrations that the players were all in different suits. Woolf would’ve had them all in matching club suits with club ties. I think it’s little things like that which matter. It’s setting standards and my concern is if these are being eroded slightly.

    These next few games will give us the answer. We are more than capable of beating Wigan and Warrington, of course we are but we have to start returning to the levels we know of.


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    I have similar feelings. Also how well are Coach and assistant jelling ? Hopefully next few weeks with ( in theory ) no easy encounters will tell us more.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    I expect us to find a couple of extra gears on Friday.
    Sometimes I have seen a saints side cruise to victory and then I can get on board with we never got out of 2nd gear chat. But at the moment I believe it’s more to do with the clutch being ••••ed!

  18. #143
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    Default Cunningham MK2

    Quote Originally Posted by The.Reverand View Post
    Sometimes I have seen a saints side cruise to victory and then I can get on board with we never got out of 2nd gear chat. But at the moment I believe it’s more to do with the clutch being ••••ed!
    I don’t recall us going all out to muller poor teams under Woolf - happy to be proven otherwise but my recollection is that tbere were lots of games like Friday where we did enough to win then moved on.

    The only difference is that Woolf earned the benefit of the doubt through winning trophies and Wello is needing to do the same. But the WCC is on the sideboard and I wouldn’t back against us knocking Wigan over on Friday and people starting to give Wello some space.


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  19. #144
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    Wellens is moving on the right path to being KC 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint from Bury View Post
    Wellens is moving on the right path to being KC 2.
    How exactly? I can’t remember us bombing tries under Cunningham the way we have under Wellens. You cant coach based on players bombing major chances.

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint from Bury View Post
    Wellens is moving on the right path to being KC 2.

    OMG you can't say that on here??????????????

    I'd say Mick Potter Mk2 now. Awful to watch, Players look bewildered to Wello's tactics and where has our defence gone?

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rommel View Post
    OMG you can't say that on here??????????????

    I'd say Mick Potter Mk2 now. Awful to watch, Players look bewildered to Wello's tactics and where has our defence gone?
    Woah. Wellens apparently has his own ideas. I’m all ears, give it to us Wello and let’s move on. I’ll back the lad for now but it won’t last forever.

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rommel View Post
    OMG you can't say that on here??????????????

    I'd say Mick Potter Mk2 now. Awful to watch, Players look bewildered to Wello's tactics and where has our defence gone?
    The players can only be bewildered by Wellens tactics if Wellens has tactics and I’ve seen very little evidence of that. The second quarter of the game the players realised that Wigan couldn’t defend and bombed 2 chances, go in at half time and we come out straight back on the set for set grind even though we had figured out it wasn’t working in the first half.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The.Reverand View Post
    Woah. Wellens apparently has his own ideas. I’m all ears, give it to us Wello and let’s move on. I’ll back the lad for now but it won’t last forever.
    Hull KR away then Wire at home next........................................ Then You'll be on here telling Wello to do one?

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    The players can only be bewildered by Wellens tactics if Wellens has tactics and I’ve seen very little evidence of that. The second quarter of the game the players realised that Wigan couldn’t defend and bombed 2 chances, go in at half time and we come out straight back on the set for set grind even though we had figured out it wasn’t working in the first half.

    I'm not arguing on that one, He's changed something as we look clueless.

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