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Thread: Cunningham MK2

  1. #101
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    Nothing happens from the hooker position with Lussick there , if he is fit put Pemberton there and tell him its make or break for him , put Ritson in and tell whoever is playing centre to him to pass the ball , the way that Percival lays centre he might as well be in the second row.

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    For me the biggest hangover of winning a trophy early or mid season is psychological rather than physical. It brings with it a sense of 'mission accomplished' and players unavoidably relax at a point when everyone else is firing up. This is why I've always thought Challenge Cup winners tend to struggle for the rest of the year, unless they have some serious mettle.

    I think we've seen our intensity drop a level or two for this reason. With the way that we defend the effect of that is exaggerated. We leave a lot of space out wide so that we can dominate the middle of the field, but it's a bit like a high press in football ó if you don't commit to it with high energy and intensity then teams can play through it and you're left exposed at the back. By crowding the middle but not defending with our usual intensity we're leaving ourselves wide open on the edges.

    This has been magnified by the problems with yellow cards, injuries and suspensions. We've got makeshift setups on both edges having to deal with an unusual amount of traffic and having to make lots of decisions, sometimes while a man short.

    If this was happening after a CC win, with only a few rounds to go, I'd be worried, but we're only three games in. I think it will be sorted soon; the WCC already seems like a long time ago and the players will be stinging, especially after that last result, so I'm expecting to see an upturn in intensity. We have Sironen back this week and possibly Hopoate (I know), which will help tighten things up on the edges.

    I'm expecting us to give it to Hull at the weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Disagree with this. Its the worst time to play them, they will want a response
    I know what you mean but they've just conceded 100 points in 2 games for a reason and we will want a response as well.

    If we can't beat them at home Friday then I'm not sure where we are at.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    For me the biggest hangover of winning a trophy early or mid season is psychological rather than physical. It brings with it a sense of 'mission accomplished' and players unavoidably relax at a point when everyone else is firing up. This is why I've always thought Challenge Cup winners tend to struggle for the rest of the year, unless they have some serious mettle.

    I think we've seen our intensity drop a level or two for this reason. With the way that we defend the effect of that is exaggerated. We leave a lot of space out wide so that we can dominate the middle of the field, but it's a bit like a high press in football — if you don't commit to it with high energy and intensity then teams can play through it and you're left exposed at the back. By crowding the middle but not defending with our usual intensity we're leaving ourselves wide open on the edges.

    This has been magnified by the problems with yellow cards, injuries and suspensions. We've got makeshift setups on both edges having to deal with an unusual amount of traffic and having to make lots of decisions, sometimes while a man short.

    If this was happening after a CC win, with only a few rounds to go, I'd be worried, but we're only three games in. I think it will be sorted soon; the WCC already seems like a long time ago and the players will be stinging, especially after that last result, so I'm expecting to see an upturn in intensity. We have Sironen back this week and possibly Hopoate (I know), which will help tighten things up on the edges.

    I'm expecting us to give it to Hull at the weekend.
    I agree with this, but also think it's easy to overlook the psychological impact of the Leeds loss too. I'm no sports psychologist, but I suspect that the impact of a narrow loss in a big game can be as great as that of a narrow win, especially a loss in those kind of circumstances.

    I know that, in reality, the Leeds game was no-where near as 'big' as the WCC game, but my hunch is that the club set itself the goal of winning the WCC, getting a win in the first two games by hook or by crook and then pausing for breath. But for a pretty shocking call by the ref they would have (probably) pulled it off too, and to fail in those kind of circumstances must be pretty deflating. Instead they found themselves as knackered as if they had won both league games, with holes in the squad caused by suspensions away to a Leigh team with their tails up and looking for a scalp. Pretty near a 'perfect storm' I'd say.

    Problem is this kind of thing can quickly lead to players feeling sorry for themselves and things going from bad to worse, which is where the coach comes in. I've no reason to believe that Wello can't turn it round (although (so far) no real reason apart from sentiment to assume he can either).

    In the current circumstances I can't see a better opportunity to start the revival than against a Hull team in complete disarray, so I'll be really interested to see how we go.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    Nothing happens from the hooker position with Lussick there , if he is fit put Pemberton there and tell him its make or break for him , put Ritson in and tell whoever is playing centre to him to pass the ball , the way that Percival lays centre he might as well be in the second row.
    Great defender.

    A bit of a blunt instrument on exit sets but getting better and is looking for holes.

    The thing that lets him down is he has developed Mark Bailey hands since Holbrook left.

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    Just read Wellens take on last nights match. It's like listening to Cunningham all over again. The usual platitudes and guff about patience and "speaking to the group"....I'm not getting a good feeling about all this!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thommo View Post
    Just read Wellens take on last nights match. It's like listening to Cunningham all over again. The usual platitudes and guff about patience and "speaking to the group"....I'm not getting a good feeling about all this!
    When has a coach ever come out and spoke about his team like fans do?

  8. #108
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    WCC winners and in the top 4 and a game in hand over 5th place.

    Where did it all go wrong?
    Can't stop the spirits when they need you.

    This life is more than just a read through.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    WCC winners and in the top 4 and a game in hand over 5th place.

    Where did it all go wrong?
    The amount of travelling if you listen to some of the shite on here.

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    Based on past experiences I was not a fan of appointing an ex player as a coach unless he'd been to another club to get experience, but on the other side of the coin this team shouldn't need much coaching, you don't need to tell the likes of Roby, Lomax & Walmsley how to play.

    The main job at the moment is coping with players missing through injury or suspension, we haven't been able to field the same team two weeks running

    If you go back a couple of seasons on here a lot of posters were critical of Woolfs style of play, it wasn't attractive but it was effective

    A loss or 2 were predictable after WCC but we've put a few wind together now.

    Next 4 or 5 games will be interesting, win them all and it will look like we are back to normal but if we lose 2 or 3 it will be a difficult time

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thommo View Post
    Just read Wellens take on last nights match. It's like listening to Cunningham all over again. The usual platitudes and guff about patience and "speaking to the group"....I'm not getting a good feeling about all this!
    Very harsh, a few seasons ago under Holbrook his main job was doing performance analytics and for me thats were his dialogue is coming from. We are just not getting that much in our favour at the moment be it in or out of our control.

    I think we have to understand to dominate superleague for a 5th term is a massive mental demand on our players, you can actually see it in our players Makinson, Welsby, Knowles and Roby are really struggling at the moment, Only Sironen and Hurrell are anywhere near last seasons standard.

    For me the players were frustrated under Cunninghams tactics of everthing down the middle and less expansive, under Wello I think the players are more frustrated with themselves and are struggling with composure and discipline which has to be fixed on the field and not the training pitch.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.O.88 View Post
    When has a coach ever come out and spoke about his team like fans do?
    In short Never.

    That said fans have a finite capacity for being fed spin.

    There's a middle ground.

    Wellens and Cunningham are chalk and cheese in so many ways.
    Wellens will stand or fall by his own actions.

    The next 4-5 weeks will be interesting.
    Results will be important but also the quality and nature of the attack.

  13. #113
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    One thing that was Infuriating with KC was the brand of Rugby. It was horrible to watch at times.

    This will be more of an issue if Saints come the mid point are not playing good rugby.
    NEVER WRITE OFF THE SAINTS
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  14. #114
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    After watching Wigan on Thursday and saints last night I am seriously worried about Good Friday, we seem light years away from the performance in the WCC, you can only excuse that game for so long. I am kind of with Thommo on Wello's summary of the last few games, Keiran lost the fans and I do worry that Wello is heading down the same path especially with comments like " the fans can't expect to be entertained every match" well sorry but I do, win or loose. At the moment I am bored to death with our efforts or (lack of effort), there seems no energy in the team full stop, we have no pace,no intensity and the boring last kick options just leave me cold. I know we have had a lot of disruption already this year but is our lack of recruitment last year is coming back to haunt us. please prove me wrong wello and I will gladly apologise for my negativity, before anyone suggests I am a glory hunter I have been supporting saints for over 60 years ,good times and bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dash Riprock View Post
    After watching Wigan on Thursday and saints last night I am seriously worried about Good Friday, we seem light years away from the performance in the WCC, you can only excuse that game for so long. I am kind of with Thommo on Wello's summary of the last few games, Keiran lost the fans and I do worry that Wello is heading down the same path especially with comments like " the fans can't expect to be entertained every match" well sorry but I do, win or loose. At the moment I am bored to death with our efforts or (lack of effort), there seems no energy in the team full stop, we have no pace,no intensity and the boring last kick options just leave me cold. I know we have had a lot of disruption already this year but is our lack of recruitment last year is coming back to haunt us. please prove me wrong wello and I will gladly apologise for my negativity, before anyone suggests I am a glory hunter I have been supporting saints for over 60 years ,good times and bad.
    That's sport though,by it's very nature there will be games that don't entertain

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    WCC winners and in the top 4 and a game in hand over 5th place.

    Where did it all go wrong?
    Totally agree. Unbelievably fickle fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twentyman View Post
    Totally agree. Unbelievably fickle fans.
    Why? Because we have the audacity to say what everyone at the ground is feeling? The sad fact is we havent played even half decent so far in the league. I'm not fickle...I just say what I see and I see a team struggling. I'm worried about Lomax most of all. He seems miles away and Dodd isn't helping him.
    Last edited by Thommo; 1st April 2023 at 16:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thommo View Post
    Why? Because we have the audacity to say what everyone at the ground is feeling? The sad fact is we havent played even half decent so far in the league. I'm not fickle...I just say what I see and I see a team struggling. I'm worried abut Lomax most of all. He seems miles away and Dodd isn't helping him.
    Lomax was man of the match last night, he had a hand in absolutely everything. He dropped one cold but other than that was very strong. He's not had his best start to the year but he was great last night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackrowSaint View Post
    Lomax was man of the match last night, he had a hand in absolutely everything. He dropped one cold but other than that was very strong. He's not had his best start to the year but he was great last night.
    I disagree Backrow. His midfied passing was slow and he put undue pressure on Dodd to get the 6th tackle kick away. Just my observation looking side on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thommo View Post
    I disagree Backrow. His midfied passing was slow and he put undue pressure on Dodd to get the 6th tackle kick away. Just my observation looking side on.
    It's fair enough we all have different observations and opinions! Worth noting the playing group themselves gave Lomax MOM as an on field perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackrowSaint View Post
    It's fair enough we all have different observations and opinions! Worth noting the playing group themselves gave Lomax MOM as an on field perspective.
    Maybe it was because of the 300th game? Look, I'm a big fan of Jonny and I've probably been used to perpetual excellence and he's only human after all, so I'm not criticising, just a tad worried. Onwards and upwards to Goon Town.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thommo View Post
    Maybe it was because of the 300th game? Look, I'm a big fan of Jonny and I've probably been used to perpetual excellence and he's only human after all, so I'm not criticising, just a tad worried. Onwards and upwards to Goon Town.
    Nobody is immune to criticism absolutely not and he's not had a good start. He was very poor against St George, but I do think that form has turned and we'll start to see more out of him and Dodd. Especially as we get settled second row and centre pairings which is a huge part of a half backs arsenal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dash Riprock View Post
    After watching Wigan on Thursday and saints last night I am seriously worried about Good Friday, we seem light years away from the performance in the WCC, you can only excuse that game for so long. I am kind of with Thommo on Wello's summary of the last few games, Keiran lost the fans and I do worry that Wello is heading down the same path especially with comments like " the fans can't expect to be entertained every match" well sorry but I do, win or loose. At the moment I am bored to death with our efforts or (lack of effort), there seems no energy in the team full stop, we have no pace,no intensity and the boring last kick options just leave me cold. I know we have had a lot of disruption already this year but is our lack of recruitment last year is coming back to haunt us. please prove me wrong wello and I will gladly apologise for my negativity, before anyone suggests I am a glory hunter I have been supporting saints for over 60 years ,good times and bad.
    Weíve just nilled a team and you think there is a lack of effort and no energy?

    Some people on this forum are properly losing the plot.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Thommo View Post
    Maybe it was because of the 300th game? Look, I'm a big fan of Jonny and I've probably been used to perpetual excellence and he's only human after all, so I'm not criticising, just a tad worried. Onwards and upwards to Goon Town.
    I'm a fan of Johny Lomax, he has been a great player and still is. But he isn't getting any younger and, in my view, he has been playing less well for a few months. I say that even in light of his injury last year; he was incredible and tough as old boots, but he is slowing down. Like with Roby, he should be rested more this year and kept safe for big games. Soon, he will have to be replaced. I would like to see more games with Welsby at 6, Benison at 1 and Lomax rested. I can't see him being ever present for many more years, but by all accounts he would make make a great addition to the coaching team because apparently he rugby brain is pretty top notch.

  25. #125
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    My only worry is if heís capable of being detached enough from them to be ruthless. Heís been there for years and played for years with the likes of Lomax, Makinson, Roby and Walmsley.

    I canít imagine Woolf being worried about administering bollockings or saying a few home truths.

    Iíve noticed on the pics from last night WCC celebrations that the players were all in different suits. Woolf wouldíve had them all in matching club suits with club ties. I think itís little things like that which matter. Itís setting standards and my concern is if these are being eroded slightly.

    These next few games will give us the answer. We are more than capable of beating Wigan and Warrington, of course we are but we have to start returning to the levels we know of.


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