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Thread: IMG grading criteria

  1. #26
    In The South Stand Noel Cleal's Avatar
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    From my projection spreadsheet I have got the following numbers. These are very rough and will be too high. I have also not included the teams outside of SL at the moment.

    I have reasonable data for everything apart from finances at the moment so everyone has a score of 5 which will obviously come down. There is also a Covid hangover with the numbers currently in the public domain so obviously these are not going to be great at predicting future numbers. Some other numbers like Utilisation are given as full marks due to lack of info. It is also worth saying that Leigh are based on numbers from being in the Championship, if they stay up this season their numbers will naturally improve.

    The key take aways are that there are only really three possible grade A teams Leeds/Saints/Wigan. Leeds due to a large catchment area and strong social media are top of class in several categories.

    For the purpose of my calculation I have given top of class the full marks and the remaining teams a score based on the percentage they have compared to top of class. I assume that IMG will use a more sophisticated algorithm than this but it will still have the same ranking order. For example at the moment for catchment area Leeds are top of class with around 800k, once I include London this could change to 8m so in my spreadsheet this would give everyone a tenth of the score. I can't believe that this is how it will really be calculated.

    Leeds 18.78
    St Helens 17.23
    Wigan 16.69
    Hull FC 15.38
    Warrington 14.99
    Catalans 14.58
    Hull KR 13.84
    Huddersfield 13.75
    Salford 13.70
    Leigh 12.75
    Castleford 12.59
    Wakefield 12.13
    Last edited by Noel Cleal; 10th March 2023 at 16:05.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    From my projection spreadsheet I have got the following numbers. These are very rough and will be too high. I have also not included the teams outside of SL at the moment.

    I have reasonable data for everything apart from finances at the moment so everyone has a score of 5 which will obviously come down. There is also a Covid hangover with the numbers currently in the public domain so obviously these are not going to be great at predicting future numbers. Some other numbers like Utilisation are given as full marks due to lack of info. It is also worth saying that Leigh are based on numbers from being in the Championship, if they stay up this season their numbers will naturally improve.

    The key take aways are that there are only really three possible grade A teams Leeds/Saints/Wigan. Leeds due to a large catchment area and strong social media are top of class in several categories.

    For the purpose of my calculation I have given top of class the full marks and the remaining teams a score based on the percentage they have compared to top of class. I assume that IMG will use a more sophisticated algorithm than this but it will still have the same ranking order. For example at the moment for catchment area Leeds are top of class with around 800k, once I include London this could change to 8m so in my spreadsheet this would give everyone a tenth of the score. I can't believe that this is how it will really be calculated.

    Leeds 18.78
    St Helens 17.23
    Wigan 16.69
    Hull FC 15.38
    Warrington 14.99
    Catalans 14.58
    Hull KR 13.84
    Huddersfield 13.75
    Salford 13.70
    Castleford 12.59
    Leigh 12.75
    Wakefield 12.13
    Have you transposed the scores for Castleford and Leigh, or the place order?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    From my projection spreadsheet I have got the following numbers. These are very rough and will be too high. I have also not included the teams outside of SL at the moment.

    I have reasonable data for everything apart from finances at the moment so everyone has a score of 5 which will obviously come down. There is also a Covid hangover with the numbers currently in the public domain so obviously these are not going to be great at predicting future numbers. Some other numbers like Utilisation are given as full marks due to lack of info. It is also worth saying that Leigh are based on numbers from being in the Championship, if they stay up this season their numbers will naturally improve.

    The key take aways are that there are only really three possible grade A teams Leeds/Saints/Wigan. Leeds due to a large catchment area and strong social media are top of class in several categories.

    For the purpose of my calculation I have given top of class the full marks and the remaining teams a score based on the percentage they have compared to top of class. I assume that IMG will use a more sophisticated algorithm than this but it will still have the same ranking order. For example at the moment for catchment area Leeds are top of class with around 800k, once I include London this could change to 8m so in my spreadsheet this would give everyone a tenth of the score. I can't believe that this is how it will really be calculated.

    Leeds 18.78
    St Helens 17.23
    Wigan 16.69
    Hull FC 15.38
    Warrington 14.99
    Catalans 14.58
    Hull KR 13.84
    Huddersfield 13.75
    Salford 13.70
    Castleford 12.59
    Leigh 12.75
    Wakefield 12.13
    Great analysis.
    Listening to the guy on Sky last night from IMG, 15points secures a Band A, between 7.5 and 15 gets a Band B and below that a Band C.
    Will be difficult to see any current Super League club getting less than a B and only a few from the Championship getting anywhere near a B grading.
    Will be interesting to see how they work out which Band B's get into/remain in Super League in 2025 and if they'll weight any specifically in favour of those already in?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samphire15 View Post
    Great analysis.
    Listening to the guy on Sky last night from IMG, 15points secures a Band A, between 7.5 and 15 gets a Band B and below that a Band C.
    Will be difficult to see any current Super League club getting less than a B and only a few from the Championship getting anywhere near a B grading.
    Will be interesting to see how they work out which Band B's get into/remain in Super League in 2025 and if they'll weight any specifically in favour of those already in?
    The Bs will all still have their individual points scores ie 12.75 which will determine the 'ladder' so to speak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    From my projection spreadsheet I have got the following numbers. These are very rough and will be too high. I have also not included the teams outside of SL at the moment.

    I have reasonable data for everything apart from finances at the moment so everyone has a score of 5 which will obviously come down. There is also a Covid hangover with the numbers currently in the public domain so obviously these are not going to be great at predicting future numbers. Some other numbers like Utilisation are given as full marks due to lack of info. It is also worth saying that Leigh are based on numbers from being in the Championship, if they stay up this season their numbers will naturally improve.

    The key take aways are that there are only really three possible grade A teams Leeds/Saints/Wigan. Leeds due to a large catchment area and strong social media are top of class in several categories.

    For the purpose of my calculation I have given top of class the full marks and the remaining teams a score based on the percentage they have compared to top of class. I assume that IMG will use a more sophisticated algorithm than this but it will still have the same ranking order. For example at the moment for catchment area Leeds are top of class with around 800k, once I include London this could change to 8m so in my spreadsheet this would give everyone a tenth of the score. I can't believe that this is how it will really be calculated.

    Leeds 18.78
    St Helens 17.23
    Wigan 16.69
    Hull FC 15.38
    Warrington 14.99
    Catalans 14.58
    Hull KR 13.84
    Huddersfield 13.75
    Salford 13.70
    Castleford 12.59
    Leigh 12.75
    Wakefield 12.13
    Only the performance scores are laddered with descending points allocated from top spot. The rest of the points are banded, hitting certain parameters to achieve a certain number of points.

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    Can't help thinking of how SL started all those years ago. Merged teams (nobody wanted) international expansion of the league (with the exception of Catalans, all others have failed miserably, Tolouse, Toronto), all stadia to be up to a specific standard (unless you're a Yawkshire team like Wakey, Cas etc) which few teams adhered to, many now being merely rent boys (Hull, Wigan, Huddersfield). It's really shocking when teams that are considered major players (Wigan) don't even have their own stadium. I hope that IMG are succesful but as always it'll all be down to the clubs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    Can't help thinking of how SL started all those years ago. Merged teams (nobody wanted) international expansion of the league (with the exception of Catalans, all others have failed miserably, Tolouse, Toronto), all stadia to be up to a specific standard (unless you're a Yawkshire team like Wakey, Cas etc) which few teams adhered to, many now being merely rent boys (Hull, Wigan, Huddersfield). It's really shocking when teams that are considered major players (Wigan) don't even have their own stadium. I hope that IMG are succesful but as always it'll all be down to the clubs.
    After I saw this post, I just had a look at the history of Super League on Wikipedia to remind myself of the events and it is unbelievable that the sport went through so much change in a relatively short period of time. It seems like we have come full circle back to licencing with the grading system and I wonder if it will ever get to the point that a team that doesn't make the grade, mergers with another team will happen, to achieve where they need to get to. Whatever view you have of Maurice Lindsay, he knew what a bleak future the sport was facing and his leadership at the time put the sport in the best possible position for success. A £87M investment from SKY all that time ago would be the equivalent to many more millions now, but the RFL badly squandered the opportunity and it was totally mismanaged. I guess you could argue that with all the changes over the years, rugby league is a visionary sport and is not afraid of innovation or it is completely leaderless and has no idea what it is doing!

  8. #33
    In The South Stand Noel Cleal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samphire15 View Post
    Great analysis.
    Listening to the guy on Sky last night from IMG, 15points secures a Band A, between 7.5 and 15 gets a Band B and below that a Band C.
    Will be difficult to see any current Super League club getting less than a B and only a few from the Championship getting anywhere near a B grading.
    Will be interesting to see how they work out which Band B's get into/remain in Super League in 2025 and if they'll weight any specifically in favour of those already in?
    Thanks, I dont think my spreadsheet is up to much scrutiny at the moment but hopefully I can put it somewhere public so others can pick it apart.

    Yes the document covers the gradings;

    15+ A
    7 to 15 B
    <7 C

    Given 25% is on field SL clubs get a reasonable score no matter what so it definitely adds some protection to existing clubs meaning the Championship club as to have a significant advantage elsewhere.

    The document also answered my big question which is what happens to the grade Bs. The answer being is the score is god. If you have a top 12 score you are in.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simeon Stylites View Post
    Have you transposed the scores for Castleford and Leigh, or the place order?
    That is a typo.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackrowSaint View Post
    Only the performance scores are laddered with descending points allocated from top spot. The rest of the points are banded, hitting certain parameters to achieve a certain number of points.
    It is hard to know what these parameters are without further breakdown. Some are pretty obvious as they are boolean/true or false statements.

    Are you the primary leaseholder?

    Do you have LED lighting?

    League ranking as you say is pretty well defined. Catchment area needs brackets to be clearly defined.

    You either get these points or you don't. Others as you say will be bracketed but without knowing these brackets better to just have a formula and get a fraction. It will all level out in the wash. Once I include some sensible financial figures I suspect I will be pretty near.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    It is hard to know what these parameters are without further breakdown. Some are pretty obvious as they are boolean/true or false statements.

    Are you the primary leaseholder?

    Do you have LED lighting?

    League ranking as you say is pretty well defined. Catchment area needs brackets to be clearly defined.

    You either get these points or you don't. Others as you say will be bracketed but without knowing these brackets better to just have a formula and get a fraction. It will all level out in the wash. Once I include some sensible financial figures I suspect I will be pretty near.
    Yeah absolutely, but you've made a good start that's for sure and I think it'll be close to accurate as an indicative measure.

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    Vote today. The two turds of Super League, Cas and Wakefield, likely to vote against.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    This really is D Day for the sport - I don't think that's an exaggeration of the truth. It's hopefully the turning point of the deadwood anchoring the rest of the sport and dragging it down, but they'll do their best to keep their self interests alive. Hopefully there's enough progressive clubs left to see it through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Vote today. The two turds of Super League, Cas and Wakefield, likely to vote against.
    Wakefield are now apparently saying they will vote in favour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Vote today. The two turds of Super League, Cas and Wakefield, likely to vote against.
    As if we needed evidence of the selfishness of the chairmen who have been voting on the direction of our sport

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    Hunslet have said they’re voting against and Keighley almost certainly are, too. Featherstone had reservations, too.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Hunslet have said they’re voting against and Keighley almost certainly are, too. Featherstone had reservations, too.
    Typical regressive Yorkies. Keighley’s point about it being fundamentally unfair and it should be all about on field performance is stupid, pretty much every top level sport has criteria that clubs need to maintain to achieve promotion, stadia standards is one of them, Hunslet were previously rejected based on that in 1999.
    Last edited by Tomsepho; 19th April 2023 at 12:14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Hunslet have said they’re voting against and Keighley almost certainly are, too. Featherstone had reservations, too.
    Its the tail wagging the dog time at the moment. All the moderm stadia in Wigan, Warrington, St Helens, Salford, Leigh and Widnes whilst most of West Yorkshire Clubs still in the dark ages.

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    It's passed, excellent news.

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    Total RL saying clubs abstained rather than voted against. Salford, Batley, Whitehaven, Featherstone, Keighley, Dewsbury and West Wales the sides to abstain.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Total RL saying clubs abstained rather than voted against. Salford, Batley, Whitehaven, Featherstone, Keighley, Dewsbury and West Wales the sides to abstain.
    So you’d count these as votes against/refusal to accept the vision.

    Great news for the sport and it should in time attract more investment into the game.

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    Absolutely hilarious that Keighley abstained rather than voting against after the fuss they've kicked up. Spineless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Total RL saying clubs abstained rather than voted against. Salford, Batley, Whitehaven, Featherstone, Keighley, Dewsbury and West Wales the sides to abstain.
    I thought it said the clubs not eligible to vote were abstained (Catalans and Toulouse) and those were the clubs which voted against

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Total RL saying clubs abstained rather than voted against. Salford, Batley, Whitehaven, Featherstone, Keighley, Dewsbury and West Wales the sides to abstain.
    Not really surprised as from what I've read, when to comes to voting, the Championship & League 1 clubs vote is worth 1, whilst the Super League clubs vote is worth 2.18. So in reality, it didn't matter what the Championship & League 1 clubs vote, it's totally reliant on the Super League clubs. It would have only been rejected if all of teh Championship and League 1 clubs had voted against it.

    From the Rugby League website:

    Ten of the 11 Betfred Super League clubs voted in favour, with one absention. (The 12th club, Catalans Dragons, were not entitled to vote).

    Eight of the 13 Betfred Championship clubs voted in favour, with one absention. (The 14th club, Toulouse Olympique, were not entitled to vote)

    Seven of the 11 Betfred League One clubs voted in favour, with one absention.

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