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Thread: Disciplinary 2023

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Nazareth View Post
    'should' is no better than 'if'

    Kendall applies the rules uniformly, doesn't fall for Leeds' cheating (play-acting), doesn't ignore a clear penalty offence (despite it being on the big bloody screen) and we win.

    We were poor by our standards, but still better than the opposition across the whole game.

    The reason why we lost is because of two harsh sin-binnings, a dubious overturning of an on-field try decision, and the failure to penalise a blatant piece of foul play by Walters (made worse by penalising Welsby, who did what Leeds players had done during the game and what happens every game every week).
    Maybe the Sironen one wash harsh,but we know from last year if you hit in the back and the man goes to ground then it's 10 minutes. It's not a dubious overturned try,it's a clear loss of control.

    Yes it was a shoulder and yes we should of had a penalty. But that doesn't alter the fact our poor discipline and poor defence was more costly. They put a high kick up and no one catches it,only Welsby is coming for it and he's way off it. When Martin scores the tackling is just awful,so many chances to stop that try.

    Like I said the ref was poor,but we shouldn't of been in the situation it became an issue.

  2. #52
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    Unprofessional play from Matautia and Hurrell, 2 players who earn their living playing professional sport. No excuses at all, particularly Matautia who has form. The actions of both players hurt the team and probably caused the loss. Sironen a bit unlucky I thought, clumsy more than anything else.
    Now it's in Wellen's hands and I hope he is strong enough with the players to get it sorted. He should also sort out the behaviour of Hurrell on the side-line which is not a good look for the Club - petty stuff.
    At the same time, the behaviour of the crowd at the post-match interviews did not reflect well on the Club and what we stand for, albeit a very small minority. Not good for youngsters to see this kind of stuff.
    We have had the plaudits since the WCC, and rightly so, so we will have to accept the criticism and move forward. Leigh should be interesting, looking forward to it.

  3. #53
    Got A Season Ticket Two Sugars Strong's Avatar
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    Agreed, I thought more Leeds players would appear on this list. No 8 point try and no sanction for pulling Percy's head off like a pringles lid ... We've got to be smarter in our approach. Everyone is upping their game against us, we've got to stop giving opponents the opportunity to stage injuries.
    That's the Saints way...

  4. #54
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    I’m not surprised at any of our bans. Hurrell was a direct shoulder to the head and Sironen/Mata’utia have poor records. Under the new guidelines I’m not surprised to see Walters avoid a ban either, at least the RFL have effectively admitted that Kendall ••••ed up.

    I’ve seen some comments on social media suggesting an agenda against saints to stop us winning 5 in a row. Absolute rubbish. Kendall is just incompetent. If we didn’t want 3 bans then our players shouldn’t have done 3 stupid things to warrant those bans.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  5. #55
    Learning All The Songs Brian Nazareth's Avatar
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    How do people suggest Mata'utia and Sironen halt their momentum in a split second?

    Or should they not commit to a tackle in case the opposition passes a split second before impact?
    He's not the Messiah, he's a naughty boy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I seem to remember Kendall never spoke to the video ref, he took it on himself to justify the decision telling the touch judges it wasn't a shoulder charge, then quickly moving onto Welsby and ignoring Walters putting his head towards Welsby on 2 occasions. Not checked the disciplinary minutes yet, don't know if Welsby got cited for the handbags incident.
    You're right, Kendall didn't speak to the video ref I just thought that some calls took longer than usual. Also both Welsby and Walters are in the MRP for headbutting but no action: 'Player gets involved with opponent but does not throw head at opponent.'

  7. #57
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    Certainly something Wellens has to work hard to try to influence. Matautia in particular is really letting us down at this point, it’s like he’s working shifts. Two on two off.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Nazareth View Post
    How do people suggest Mata'utia and Sironen halt their momentum in a split second?

    Or should they not commit to a tackle in case the opposition passes a split second before impact?
    They were told to show a grabbing action in the tackle to mitigate it,neither did.

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    Just 3 weeks into the SL season and already it’s the referees and judiciary who are ‘talk of the town’. Contrast this with the WCC….barely remembered the referee but had that been a SL game it would have been littered with yellow cards and refereeing controversy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Surveyor View Post
    Just 3 weeks into the SL season and already it’s the referees and judiciary who are ‘talk of the town’. Contrast this with the WCC….barely remembered the referee but had that been a SL game it would have been littered with yellow cards and refereeing controversy.
    They'd made a great start as well, both the referees and the panel. Then the Warrington game seemed to throw everything off the tracks and it resulted in a shambles in our game. It's such a shame. Another farcical, although understandable, tariff handed out to Kenny Dowell from Hull KR. Another player faking an injury being tugged by the shirt resulting in a Grade E charge. I totally get why the rule is there, but when it's someone after a penalty as it always is, it's so frustrating. Hopefully the players stop doing it to avoid the punishment, but I think it's perhaps also time to start bringing in either bans for players who dive/feign injury or have some kind of football style rule where if they're declared well enough to stay on, they have to wait a certain period before coming back on unless a penalty is awarded. It's definitely time for IMG to get into the clubs and remind them that it's an entertainment business as well as a sport and that the nauseating obsession with cheating every possible little thing is making the sport look stupid and ultimately reducing their earning potential. Yellow cards for players appealing for decisions or cards too would be nice too.

  11. #61
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    Default Disciplinary 2023

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Nazareth View Post
    How do people suggest Mata'utia and Sironen halt their momentum in a split second?

    Or should they not commit to a tackle in case the opposition passes a split second before impact?
    We need to stop making excuses for them, they are not learning.

    Using their arms in these situations would be a good start.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    We need to stop making excuses for them, they are not learning.

    Using their arms in these situations would be a good start.


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    Other than throwing himself to the floor I don’t think that there was any wat Sironen could avoid the collision.

  13. #63
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk STIDDY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    We need to stop making excuses for them, they are not learning.

    Using their arms in these situations would be a good start.


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    Don't think thats the case with Sironem much improved, its Matautia who doesn't learm. There was a case of Myler obstructing (blocking) Sironen and Sironen got sucked into pushing him. Wish we could get a stat on how many penalties Myler gets for grubby tactics, we all remember the Myler "I will fall on my own head" on the Chris Hill tackle, similarly they also won that game on controversial circumstances as well, referee was Jack Smith.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Other than throwing himself to the floor I don’t think that there was any wat Sironen could avoid the collision.
    Well other back rowers for other teams seem to manage okay. They aren't being banned every few weeks

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Don't think thats the case with Sironem much improved, its Matautia who doesn't learm. There was a case of Myler obstructing (blocking) Sironen and Sironen got sucked into pushing him. Wish we could get a stat on how many penalties Myler gets for grubby tactics, we all remember the Myler "I will fall on my own head" on the Chris Hill tackle, similarly they also won that game on controversial circumstances as well, referee was Jack Smith.
    Need to stop hitting opposition players whose backs are turned as well. Just causes the whiplash effect and its an instant yellow.

    Easier said than done though

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    The Walters shoulder charge is an interesting one.
    Watching the game live I didn't notice it and I doubt if the officials did.
    It was only Welsby kicking off that brought it to their attention.
    From the refs comments as heard on TV the ref wasn't happy with Welsby trying to ref the game which is why he penalised Welsby and chose to ignore the shoulder charge "no rotation" I think was the expression he used ?????

    In previous seasons refs have been referring yo video refs in instances like this but he seemed content to just discuss it with the touch judges.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Well other back rowers for other teams seem to manage okay. They aren't being banned every few weeks





    Bachelor has no problem

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    Well other back rowers for other teams seem to manage okay. They aren't being banned every few weeks
    Just watched it back. Sironen has one foot in the air mid pace and hits him as that foot comes down. So he doesn’t take a single pace toward him after the ball has gone. Fo me it’s still a harsh decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    We need to stop making excuses for them, they are not learning.

    Using their arms in these situations would be a good start.


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    Spot on, if these players wrap their arms then they are doing a legal tackle and reducing the risk of injury. Throw in Hurrell as well. If he uses his arms on Myler is would have probably now even been a penalty.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    The Walters shoulder charge is an interesting one.
    Watching the game live I didn't notice it and I doubt if the officials did.
    It was only Welsby kicking off that brought it to their attention.
    From the refs comments as heard on TV the ref wasn't happy with Welsby trying to ref the game which is why he penalised Welsby and chose to ignore the shoulder charge "no rotation" I think was the expression he used ?????

    In previous seasons refs have been referring yo video refs in instances like this but he seemed content to just discuss it with the touch judges.
    The Walters challenge was just a penalty, it wasn't late and it wasn't contact with the head. Charging Walters feels almost like a punishment to Kendall/Smith drawing attention to the fact the decision was wrong.

    All they had to do was review it, say the penalty went the wrong way but no charge. I think then we could all just move on.

    In the end three silly cards for Saints and a missed penalty nearly in front are bigger factors to the loss that one penalty that went the wrong way, even though it was at a key moment in the game.

    I am surprise more has not been made of the Percival try. Two defenders committing professional fouls on Matautia and Fusitua putting Percy in a dangerous and high position. No cards and no 8 point try seems out of step with what we have seen so far this season.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    The Walters challenge was just a penalty, it wasn't late and it wasn't contact with the head.
    No, the technique itself is against the rules. It was very blatant, he shot out and hit him with the shoulder. It should be a yellow when it's that deliberate, as highlighted by the charge against being Grade B, not A.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    The Walters challenge was just a penalty, it wasn't late and it wasn't contact with the head. Charging Walters feels almost like a punishment to Kendall/Smith drawing attention to the fact the decision was wrong.

    All they had to do was review it, say the penalty went the wrong way but no charge. I think then we could all just move on.

    In the end three silly cards for Saints and a missed penalty nearly in front are bigger factors to the loss that one penalty that went the wrong way, even though it was at a key moment in the game.

    I am surprise more has not been made of the Percival try. Two defenders committing professional fouls on Matautia and Fusitua putting Percy in a dangerous and high position. No cards and no 8 point try seems out of step with what we have seen so far this season.
    This,how often do you see a penalty try in a season ? Yet we have have a few already and he was looking at that as being one in the game. How often do you see an 8 point try ? Yet alone 2 in one game. It was clear on every replay that Percival's head was being violently moved,I don't know a single person who saw that and didn't think foul. So how in all the replays can the officials not see it ?

  23. #73
    Learning All The Songs Brian Nazareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brook View Post
    This,how often do you see a penalty try in a season ? Yet we have have a few already and he was looking at that as being one in the game. How often do you see an 8 point try ? Yet alone 2 in one game. It was clear on every replay that Percival's head was being violently moved,I don't know a single person who saw that and didn't think foul. So how in all the replays can the officials not see it ?


    They saw it. Ignored it.

    Just like with Walters' shoulder charge.

    I'd prepare yourselves for a season of more games where key decisions go against us from certain refs.
    He's not the Messiah, he's a naughty boy.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Nazareth View Post


    I'd prepare yourselves for a season of more games where key decisions go against us from certain refs.
    I accepted that last season its par for the course in respect to our type of play. We are very much like an NRL team and in that respect its seen as "playing on the edge" of accepatability in terms of defensive pressure. In the NRL "playing on the edge" is normal in Superleague less so.

    We will see a couple of players like Myler and others being smart in cheating to get a penalty reward, the superleague refs are no way at the same level as NRL refs and we will always see superleague refs with a different agenda. Its a handicap we have to overcome and like many on here have mentioned our players need to use their arms if it looks as though they are going to arrive late, I can see that being very difficult for Matautia though he's competitive wants to smash the opposition at the same time not become a constant liability.

  25. #75
    Learning All The Songs Brian Nazareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I accepted that last season its par for the course in respect to our type of play. We are very much like an NRL team and in that respect its seen as "playing on the edge" of accepatability in terms of defensive pressure. In the NRL "playing on the edge" is normal in Superleague less so.

    We will see a couple of players like Myler and others being smart in cheating to get a penalty reward, the superleague refs are no way at the same level as NRL refs and we will always see superleague refs with a different agenda. Its a handicap we have to overcome and like many on here have mentioned our players need to use their arms if it looks as though they are going to arrive late, I can see that being very difficult for Matautia though he's competitive wants to smash the opposition at the same time not become a constant liability.

    Ironically, Matautia gets closest to wrapping his arms (out of the 3 punished). They do raise as he collides, but don't genuinely wrap. The contact is also from Mata'utia's front of his body, and Sezer has turned his back towards him (blinding Matautia to the ball being released)

    As I said in an earlier post, these are split-second things. We can all see the examples of players who are able to pull out but don't - and they need to be punished. Both Mata'utia & Sironen were fraction of a second late and unable to stop momentum.

    I think Leeds have developed a tactic of drawing an ever-so-slightly-late impact from the aggressive Saints forwards, then going down as if poleaxed. Sadly, Kendall was either suckered into falling for it, or he was a willing stooge.

    I don't think he'll be the only one this season.

    I really hope we neither choose to or are forced to row back on our 'NRL style' defence, though. It's a great spectacle and gets the crowd on their feet.
    He's not the Messiah, he's a naughty boy.

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