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Thread: Saints to join new NRL competition?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    Some NRL sides have taken the WCC very seriously indeed. In fact, most of them have.

    Penrith, however, are tinpot compared to the appraoch of proper clubs like Roosters, Storm and Souths.
    Are we any better by disrespecting their competition they’re proposing? Is an eye for an eye the best approach?
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Are we any better by disrespecting their competition they’re proposing? Is an eye for an eye the best approach?
    Yes because one is an established game between the two champions of the top leagues, the other is just basically a pre season magic weekend including everyone with Saints thrown in.

    They aren’t comparable


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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    Yes because one is an established game between the two champions of the top leagues, the other is just basically a pre season magic weekend including everyone with Saints thrown in.

    They aren’t comparable


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    One isn’t established though, is it? It’s been much maligned for years.
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  4. #29
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    Default Saints to join new NRL competition?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    One isn’t established though, is it? It’s been much maligned for years.
    Before covid this foxture had been played every year for 20 years - I’d say that counts as established.

    As for much maligned - depends who you ask. I don’t think it’s much maligned in the UK and I don’t think it’s much maligned by most of the clubs and players in the NRL who participate in it.

    There are critics but then the NRL is not known for being the most open minded of competitions.

    Genuine question - you think a pre season magic weekend is better than for example:
    - Newlove skinning Sailor to set up Joynt in 2001 win
    - Bulls smashing Andrew Johns’ Knights the next year
    - Roosters teaching us a lesson the next year before the Bulls bring it back to UK in 2004
    - Leeds winning a thriller at a packed Elland Rd in 2005
    - Fielden putting in a magical performance for the Bulls vs Wests
    - Scully taking out the MOM in another win vs star studded Brisbane
    Etc etc

    This IS an established fixture with a great history. Yes there have been some blow out scores but a lot of close ones too - the last fixture was a cracking game at TWS despite a weakened Saints side. Souths / Roosters / Storm haven’t been taking this foxture easy. They are proud to compete in it and win it.

    It would be a big mistake to can it IMO, particularly in favour of a nothing NRL-centric jamboree with a token English side.

    Anyway - good news that for another year at least the WCC will happen. Looks like we’ll have a warm up game against St George beforehand also.

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    Last edited by FearTheVee; 4th November 2022 at 07:52.

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    https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/st-he...rnament-61666/

    Saints vs Saints a week before the WCC apparently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/st-he...rnament-61666/

    Saints vs Saints a week before the WCC apparently.
    Would be quite an honour for the club this.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    Before covid this foxture had been played every year for 20 years - I’d say that counts as established.

    As for much maligned - depends who you ask. I don’t think it’s much maligned in the UK and I don’t think it’s much maligned by most of the clubs and players in the NRL who participate in it.

    There are critics but then the NRL is not known for being the most open minded of competitions.

    Genuine question - you think a pre season magic weekend is better than for example:
    - Newlove skinning Sailor to set up Joynt in 2001 win
    - Bulls smashing Andrew Johns’ Knights the next year
    - Roosters teaching us a lesson the next year before the Bulls bring it back to UK in 2004
    - Leeds winning a thriller at a packed Elland Rd in 2005
    - Fielden putting in a magical performance for the Bulls vs Wests
    - Scully taking out the MOM in another win vs star studded Brisbane
    Etc etc

    This IS an established fixture with a great history. Yes there have been some blow out scores but a lot of close ones too - the last fixture was a cracking game at TWS despite a weakened Saints side. Souths / Roosters / Storm haven’t been taking this foxture easy. They are proud to compete in it and win it.

    It would be a big mistake to can it IMO, particularly in favour of a nothing NRL-centric jamboree with a token English side.

    Anyway - good news that for another year at least the WCC will happen. Looks like we’ll have a warm up game against St George beforehand also.

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    I’d say it is maligned. There’s been plenty of posts on here and from fans of clubs regarding the lull in form playing in the World Challenge creates in the early part of Super League and there’s plenty in the UK who don’t think it’s a big enough event or that it’s not taken serious enough.

    A tournament with potentially a decent sized purse on offer against some of the best on the planet shouldn’t be written off at this stage. We don’t know what the details are for it, what it entails or how it’s won. We don’t know what this tournament could be or what it could become.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    I can't beleieve that people think like this. Binning our own SL fixtures to play in some friendlies against random NRL teams? Would be a potent cocktail of the NRL disrespecting the WCC and Saints disrespecting SL.

    No thanks, proper WCC or nothing.
    We didn't disrespect the regular season the RFL did with their mickey mouse play off systems that rendered finishing top pointless.

    We would finish top year after year and then get beaten by other teams in increasingly silly models. Leeds winning back to back from 5th was the final straw. The teams, the players the fans all knew that the league is a qualifying tournament for the playoffs.

    The RFL could have acted and fixed the problem but instead joined the rest of thecsport at giggling at us. So if we can go play against better teams from a better competition then sod Superleague and its 27 meaningless weeks.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    Would be quite an honour for the club this.
    Yes I am actually getting quite excited about it.

    You feel the model for the tournament could be similar to some of the football preseason tournaments.

    I am usually a sceptic of just copying football but if we could have a number of 4 team tournaments with squads from different leagues. This could eventually be sold to venues around the world. It could be a great revenue and exposure tool for the sport.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    Well in my opinion the day we decide that a pre season friendly tournament amongst every NRL team akin to what we have in soccer is more attractive than a genuine WCC game between the champions of the two best leagues on the planet will be a sad day indeed - however the NRL try to dress it up.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    Well in my opinion the day we decide that a pre season friendly tournament amongst every NRL team akin to what we have in soccer is more attractive than a genuine WCC game between the champions of the two best leagues on the planet will be a sad day indeed - however the NRL try to dress it up.


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    From what has come out so far, this concept will include both. We will play penrith on 18/19 Feb in the WCC and play two games prior to that as part of this tournament that we don't really know a lot about yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackrowSaint View Post
    From what has come out so far, this concept will include both. We will play penrith on 18/19 Feb in the WCC and play two games prior to that as part of this tournament that we don't really know a lot about yet.
    Appreciate that's what is proposed for this year but I'm cynical as to whether it will remain that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    We didn't disrespect the regular season the RFL did with their mickey mouse play off systems that rendered finishing top pointless.

    We would finish top year after year and then get beaten by other teams in increasingly silly models. Leeds winning back to back from 5th was the final straw. The teams, the players the fans all knew that the league is a qualifying tournament for the playoffs.

    The RFL could have acted and fixed the problem but instead joined the rest of thecsport at giggling at us. So if we can go play against better teams from a better competition then sod Superleague and its 27 meaningless weeks.
    Spot on. We could miss 5 games, forfeit them all and still easily make the playoffs given the diluted concept we play in. I struggle with the idea that regular season games are the be-all-and-end-all for some people. They are simply not that important, they are merely a way for the clubs that value consistency and achieving something to flog themselves for 27 weeks in the hope they will get 'shocked' by some team in 5th or 6th to the delight of Sky and neutrals who revel in the fact that our entire season can be shaped by one game in September at the expense of the 6 months before it. Except for getting beat by Wigan or Wire I can't remember the last time a regular season defeat even annoyed me let alone upset me. And conversely, except beating those two I barely rise above 'good win' levels when we win one.

    Some on here were happy some of our lads missed out on the chance of playing in a World Cup through injury because 'they'd be fresh for the start of the season', as if anything that happens at the start of the season is even remotely important. Tell Leeds (lost 7 of their first 10), they'll laugh at you, it means nothing, they ended up in the Grand Final after doing nothing for half a season and sacking their coach The RFL, SL and the clubs correctly worked out the RL fanbase a long time ago and knew that the vast majority wouldn't bother complaining about the constant changes, the ridiculous play-off structures or the excessive number of games. Most just get on with on it, turn up and treat every game as if it means something. We get people on here posting in September asking what the play-off format is this year, people simply don't care enough to complain, so nothing happens. And we end up with this, people saying we shouldn't go to Australia and try something new and potentially beneficial as it'll mean we are undercooked for some reg season games in Feb.

    If it proves to be a joke and a let-down, or we are disrespected, it's one year, live with it and don't do it again. But what if it isn't, and what if we were in at the start of something that grows, the flagship club from England, the pioneers, seen in Australia as the benchmark of our sport in our country? There's no reason not to do it, and certainly no reason to not do it because it might have a negative impact on a few meaningless run-arounds in the opening weeks of a diluted, overly long glorified qualifying comp masquerading as a league.

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    To be honest it would be a bit of a victory to kill off the belief that the bottom team in the NRL would mop the floor with us.

    I would agree generally that three games would detract from having one big meaningful game. However, as it is us and we are going all the way to Australia, then let's get in a few games and test ourselves in back to back weeks.

    I think a lot of out success under Woolf was on the back of the Sydney Roosters game. That was about as intense a game as I have seen us play. Knowing we had that in us convinced me that we could beat anyone in SL. I assume it did the same for the team.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Spot on. We could miss 5 games, forfeit them all and still easily make the playoffs given the diluted concept we play in. I struggle with the idea that regular season games are the be-all-and-end-all for some people. They are simply not that important, they are merely a way for the clubs that value consistency and achieving something to flog themselves for 27 weeks in the hope they will get 'shocked' by some team in 5th or 6th to the delight of Sky and neutrals who revel in the fact that our entire season can be shaped by one game in September at the expense of the 6 months before it. Except for getting beat by Wigan or Wire I can't remember the last time a regular season defeat even annoyed me let alone upset me. And conversely, except beating those two I barely rise above 'good win' levels when we win one.

    Some on here were happy some of our lads missed out on the chance of playing in a World Cup through injury because 'they'd be fresh for the start of the season', as if anything that happens at the start of the season is even remotely important. Tell Leeds (lost 7 of their first 10), they'll laugh at you, it means nothing, they ended up in the Grand Final after doing nothing for half a season and sacking their coach The RFL, SL and the clubs correctly worked out the RL fanbase a long time ago and knew that the vast majority wouldn't bother complaining about the constant changes, the ridiculous play-off structures or the excessive number of games. Most just get on with on it, turn up and treat every game as if it means something. We get people on here posting in September asking what the play-off format is this year, people simply don't care enough to complain, so nothing happens. And we end up with this, people saying we shouldn't go to Australia and try something new and potentially beneficial as it'll mean we are undercooked for some reg season games in Feb.

    If it proves to be a joke and a let-down, or we are disrespected, it's one year, live with it and don't do it again. But what if it isn't, and what if we were in at the start of something that grows, the flagship club from England, the pioneers, seen in Australia as the benchmark of our sport in our country? There's no reason not to do it, and certainly no reason to not do it because it might have a negative impact on a few meaningless run-arounds in the opening weeks of a diluted, overly long glorified qualifying comp masquerading as a league.
    The fact that super league is pants doesn’t mean that a half baked comp in Australia is a good idea. I would love to see a good competition here and against some Australian teams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    The fact that super league is pants doesn’t mean that a half baked comp in Australia is a good idea. I would love to see a good competition here and against some Australian teams
    There’s got to be some give and take though and it’s easier for us to try it out over there first. The icing on the cake for me would be if Channel 4 or someone else, not Sky, were to get the TV rights but I assume they’ll go with the NRL rights, which Sky already have.
    Last edited by Suttoner; 4th November 2022 at 16:01. Reason: Correcting predictive text

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    My concern with this is nothing to do with the matches themselves, which I would look forward to, but the economics of the whole exercise. I think I remember Kris Radlinski saying that Wigan's trip over there a few years back ended up costing them a fortune.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    My concern with this is nothing to do with the matches themselves, which I would look forward to, but the economics of the whole exercise. I think I remember Kris Radlinski saying that Wigan's trip over there a few years back ended up costing them a fortune.
    I'm pretty sure I read somewhere it's covered as part of the competition expenses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    There’s got to be some give and take though and it’s easier for us to try it out over there first. The icing on the cake for me would be if Channel 4 or someone else, not Sky, were to get the TV rights but I assume they’ll go with the NRL rights, which Sky already have.
    That would help. Channel 4 or Amazon Prime or even BBC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    My concern with this is nothing to do with the matches themselves, which I would look forward to, but the economics of the whole exercise. I think I remember Kris Radlinski saying that Wigan's trip over there a few years back ended up costing them a fortune.
    That whole trip was complete hubris. It made no sense at all.


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    My only concern would be injuries with going into intense games without a warm up. I like the idea of the 3 games, just hope we don’t suffer any major injuries. If we can go with a full squad, then bring the Aussies on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    Well in my opinion the day we decide that a pre season friendly tournament amongst every NRL team akin to what we have in soccer is more attractive than a genuine WCC game between the champions of the two best leagues on the planet will be a sad day indeed - however the NRL try to dress it up.


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    Fully agree with you on this. Mind boggling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Spot on. We could miss 5 games, forfeit them all and still easily make the playoffs given the diluted concept we play in. I struggle with the idea that regular season games are the be-all-and-end-all for some people. They are simply not that important, they are merely a way for the clubs that value consistency and achieving something to flog themselves for 27 weeks in the hope they will get 'shocked' by some team in 5th or 6th to the delight of Sky and neutrals who revel in the fact that our entire season can be shaped by one game in September at the expense of the 6 months before it. Except for getting beat by Wigan or Wire I can't remember the last time a regular season defeat even annoyed me let alone upset me. And conversely, except beating those two I barely rise above 'good win' levels when we win one.

    Some on here were happy some of our lads missed out on the chance of playing in a World Cup through injury because 'they'd be fresh for the start of the season', as if anything that happens at the start of the season is even remotely important. Tell Leeds (lost 7 of their first 10), they'll laugh at you, it means nothing, they ended up in the Grand Final after doing nothing for half a season and sacking their coach The RFL, SL and the clubs correctly worked out the RL fanbase a long time ago and knew that the vast majority wouldn't bother complaining about the constant changes, the ridiculous play-off structures or the excessive number of games. Most just get on with on it, turn up and treat every game as if it means something. We get people on here posting in September asking what the play-off format is this year, people simply don't care enough to complain, so nothing happens. And we end up with this, people saying we shouldn't go to Australia and try something new and potentially beneficial as it'll mean we are undercooked for some reg season games in Feb.

    If it proves to be a joke and a let-down, or we are disrespected, it's one year, live with it and don't do it again. But what if it isn't, and what if we were in at the start of something that grows, the flagship club from England, the pioneers, seen in Australia as the benchmark of our sport in our country? There's no reason not to do it, and certainly no reason to not do it because it might have a negative impact on a few meaningless run-arounds in the opening weeks of a diluted, overly long glorified qualifying comp masquerading as a league.
    I don't doubt that the regular season is far from what it used to be, id rather we had FPTP myself, but try telling our fans if we lose 3 out of the first 6. It'd be meltdown on here and i could understand. I also don't think this 'tournament' or whatever it is will amount to anything long term. All the signs are there that it's some last minute cobbled together pre season nonsense that like every otherbRL idea has little chance of sticking long term. And yes I'd rather win our first half a dozen SL games and be in the strongest possible position to reach the GF at the end of the year, not having to win away twice to get there. I think some people have become a bit flippant about this scenario like its nailed on that we'd come through it

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    Do Wigan not get an invite?

    To be fair they won one of the two major trophies on offer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    I think a lot of out success under Woolf was on the back of the Sydney Roosters game. That was about as intense a game as I have seen us play. Knowing we had that in us convinced me that we could beat anyone in SL. I assume it did the same for the team.
    I feel the same TBH. We deserved to take something out of that game and I think it showed just how good we could be.

    Big baptism of fire for Wello as well. Regardless of how relevant the tournament would be seen by fans, the club will not want to be embarrassed.

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