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Thread: TWS / RL atmosphere.

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    My initial reaction was to reject such musical interventions during the game, remembering the forced attempts to get the Bradford crowd singing player-related ditties such as “Hey McNamara” during the Bullmania days. But I then recalled being at Yankees baseball and Jets American Football games where the atmosphere was enhanced by the public address chants/music. Admittedly there was no danger of these cutting across crowd singing which was totally absent but perhaps it could work at rugby games provided the control of it was in the hands of someone who understands the ebb and flow of crowd involvement.
    This. I also have been to Yankee stadium and hoping to get tickets for the London Series 2023. The interjections of music last about 10 seconds if that. Mainly when there's a break in play and it works really well. I know the Seven Nation Army riff played once and Zombie Nation is a big hit in baseball

    https://youtu.be/u2gltauuAxA

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    Enjoy your baseball lad

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    So how would these musical pieces work....

    If it's a Knock On do we get a burst of Knock On Wood by Sam & Dave

    A scrum.... Come together by the Beatles

    Six Again........ Oops I did it again

    Yellow Card......... Mellow Yellow, Donovan

    Red Card........... So Long, Farewell, auf wiedersen, goodbye from Sound of Music

    Saints Try ......... Congratulations Cliff Richards

    Opposition Try...... Funeral March

    Video Ref confirms a try.... All Right Now by Free

    Obviously when Saints enter the field its when the Saints go marching in but for the opposition can't decide between Benny Hill Music or "send in the clowns"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infamous Grouse View Post
    So how would these musical pieces work....

    If it's a Knock On do we get a burst of Knock On Wood by Sam & Dave

    A scrum.... Come together by the Beatles

    Six Again........ Oops I did it again

    Yellow Card......... Mellow Yellow, Donovan

    Red Card........... So Long, Farewell, auf wiedersen, goodbye from Sound of Music

    Saints Try ......... Congratulations Cliff Richards

    Opposition Try...... Funeral March

    Video Ref confirms a try.... All Right Now by Free

    Obviously when Saints enter the field its when the Saints go marching in but for the opposition can't decide between Benny Hill Music or "send in the clowns"
    Hicks announced as referee There may be trouble ahead Nat King Cole

    We played Oldham at Oldham Athletic Football Ground years ago and after the first two tries Saints scored, they played that and it raised a chuckle from me,

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    Interesting debate. I think the nub of all of this is that atmospheres can't be artificially generated. Good atmospheres thrive off a bit of tension, a sense of importance in the outcome and at times a bit of dread (for your teams chances that day). I think that the generation that maybe grew up in the SL era has slowly started to realise that most weeks none of those factors exist. You can't really be tense for a regular season game anymore, you can't really deem them that important, and you can't really dread a loss when half the teams qualify for the play-offs and you can still win a league title losing a dozen games. The drive towards mediocrity and the rewards given to mediocrity have been detrimental to the overall game, both on and off the field.

    It's true that if you're Salford or Castleford, games do have loads of meaning late in the season as you try to get into the 6, and the atmosphere is probably there. But if you're a Saints or Wigan fan you pretty much know you're going to be a game or two away from a Grand Final by the time Good Friday even rolls around. Big Cup games can still have a sense of atmosphere, if not the large crowds, but that's tied in with must-win knockout games having those three major factors quite naturally. For 90% of the season it simply isn't there, we enjoy wins, moan about defeats but apart from giving Wigan a tonking we don't get really high or really low about any regular season game anymore. I think you'd find that a really poor season where we were struggling half way through would generate some good atmospheres because we'd turn up knowing we had to go on a run and knowing that any loss would set us back if we wanted to reach the 6. When Wigan had that disastrous season and nearly got relegated they had an upturn in crowds and general atmosphere. The siege mentality works, there is tension and fear of defeat and the consequences involved.

    We just don't have that. We could lose 4 or 5 home games over the season and it wouldn't stop us being in the mix in September. We could go to Wigan on Good Friday next year and stick 50 on them, but taking away the joy of beating them and seeing them in despair, the feelings only last so long as we know it doesn't mean as much as it should if the 4 points we both played for could mean the difference between a league title and finishing runners-up. American and Australian sports have that same vibe as well. The NFL has as close to the perfect regular season and play-off mix, I've been a fan for 30-odd years and I am not anti-playoffs at all when it makes sense, but the fact is that until the last couple of months you simply don't get too worked up about wins and don't get too low about defeats unless you're really messing up. Baseball is the same, I was at Yankee Stadium in April, NY won with a walk off home run, everyone going wild in that instance, but 20 minutes later the place was very mellow. It was something like the 20th game of a 162 game season, it really didn't matter. Half the crowd were walking around buying food for long stretches of the game, there was no tension in the air, no fear of defeat, no sense of importance, it was just a game, good if you win, not so good if you lose, but there'll be another one around the corner, don't get too worked up. So artificial encouragements and stuff to occupy your mind and get you a bit enthused works in that setting. Compare to the atmosphere later in the season in MLB play off games, it's night and day, tension abounds, fear of defeat gets everyone up for it.

    We are now the same, games are just games, another one next week, the league table merely a guide and not the be all and end all, and nothing is settled until those 3 weeks in September and October. These are the rules the game set, and we have simply altered our attitudes as time has gone by. Only a change in structure will change that.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by greggo View Post
    Enjoy your baseball lad
    I do. Imagine that!

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Interesting debate. I think the nub of all of this is that atmospheres can't be artificially generated. Good atmospheres thrive off a bit of tension, a sense of importance in the outcome and at times a bit of dread (for your teams chances that day). I think that the generation that maybe grew up in the SL era has slowly started to realise that most weeks none of those factors exist. You can't really be tense for a regular season game anymore, you can't really deem them that important, and you can't really dread a loss when half the teams qualify for the play-offs and you can still win a league title losing a dozen games. The drive towards mediocrity and the rewards given to mediocrity have been detrimental to the overall game, both on and off the field.

    It's true that if you're Salford or Castleford, games do have loads of meaning late in the season as you try to get into the 6, and the atmosphere is probably there. But if you're a Saints or Wigan fan you pretty much know you're going to be a game or two away from a Grand Final by the time Good Friday even rolls around. Big Cup games can still have a sense of atmosphere, if not the large crowds, but that's tied in with must-win knockout games having those three major factors quite naturally. For 90% of the season it simply isn't there, we enjoy wins, moan about defeats but apart from giving Wigan a tonking we don't get really high or really low about any regular season game anymore. I think you'd find that a really poor season where we were struggling half way through would generate some good atmospheres because we'd turn up knowing we had to go on a run and knowing that any loss would set us back if we wanted to reach the 6. When Wigan had that disastrous season and nearly got relegated they had an upturn in crowds and general atmosphere. The siege mentality works, there is tension and fear of defeat and the consequences involved.

    We just don't have that. We could lose 4 or 5 home games over the season and it wouldn't stop us being in the mix in September. We could go to Wigan on Good Friday next year and stick 50 on them, but taking away the joy of beating them and seeing them in despair, the feelings only last so long as we know it doesn't mean as much as it should if the 4 points we both played for could mean the difference between a league title and finishing runners-up. American and Australian sports have that same vibe as well. The NFL has as close to the perfect regular season and play-off mix, I've been a fan for 30-odd years and I am not anti-playoffs at all when it makes sense, but the fact is that until the last couple of months you simply don't get too worked up about wins and don't get too low about defeats unless you're really messing up. Baseball is the same, I was at Yankee Stadium in April, NY won with a walk off home run, everyone going wild in that instance, but 20 minutes later the place was very mellow. It was something like the 20th game of a 162 game season, it really didn't matter. Half the crowd were walking around buying food for long stretches of the game, there was no tension in the air, no fear of defeat, no sense of importance, it was just a game, good if you win, not so good if you lose, but there'll be another one around the corner, don't get too worked up. So artificial encouragements and stuff to occupy your mind and get you a bit enthused works in that setting. Compare to the atmosphere later in the season in MLB play off games, it's night and day, tension abounds, fear of defeat gets everyone up for it.

    We are now the same, games are just games, another one next week, the league table merely a guide and not the be all and end all, and nothing is settled until those 3 weeks in September and October. These are the rules the game set, and we have simply altered our attitudes as time has gone by. Only a change in structure will change that.
    I think sports clubs are no longer in the "sports business" they are in the entertainment business. Like or loath US sports, but they do know how to get the crowd going.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRLStatman View Post
    I think sports clubs are no longer in the "sports business" they are in the entertainment business. Like or loath US sports, but they do know how to get the crowd going.
    Seems to work with the NFL games they stage over here at Wembley and more recently Tottenham.

    I assume those matches are stage managed by a presentation company, it would be interesting to see what they could do with Magic weekend

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRLStatman View Post
    Like or loath US sports, but they do know how to get the crowd going.
    I do indeed like it, and I see it as part of their culture and have no issues with it. In terms of getting the crowd going, it's still no patch on a genuinely atmospheric crowd over here though, it's simply artificial spikes in a generic atmosphere. I have no issue with that, I follow the NFL religiously and watch a bit of baseball as well, I don't think it my place to question their sporting culture, it works for them. Over here I sense it would work less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I do indeed like it, and I see it as part of their culture and have no issues with it. In terms of getting the crowd going, it's still no patch on a genuinely atmospheric crowd over here though, it's simply artificial spikes in a generic atmosphere. I have no issue with that, I follow the NFL religiously and watch a bit of baseball as well, I don't think it my place to question their sporting culture, it works for them. Over here I sense it would work less.
    It is no match for an atmospheric crowd, but outside of the big games how many Ďbigí atmospheres do we actually get?
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    It is no match for an atmospheric crowd, but outside of the big games how many ‘big’ atmospheres do we actually get?
    Id say trial it at an early season game against a side that we know dont bring many supporters, if it works then there is no reason why we shouldnt think about it for the lesser games, you wont need it for the likes of Wigan, Warrington etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Id say trial it at an early season game against a side that we know dont bring many supporters, if it works then there is no reason why we shouldnt think about it for the lesser games, you wont need it for the likes of Wigan, Warrington etc.
    agreed! no harm in trying something new

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    It is no match for an atmospheric crowd, but outside of the big games how many ‘big’ atmospheres do we actually get?
    Agreed, very few, and I tried to give my opinions on why that is earlier in the thread. Change the structure, make league games more important, see the general atmosphere get better. We'll always have mundane atmosphere's when we're coasting 32-8 vs Wakefield or Hull KR, but in the games we think we have a chance of losing, where the 2 points are massive, the atmosphere will be better. Back in the days of Top 5 where getting a top 2 spot was considered really important we'd have really good atmospheres against Leeds and Bradford as well as Wigan and Wire, because we knew they were challengers for those spots and we needed to beat them. Now it's basically Wigan and Wire, and even they aren't as good as there's not much riding on them other than local bragging rights.

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    I'm not sure about music during the game, but I would like to see more going on outside the stadium and in the concourse pre game - we have plenty of space now to have some entertainment for kids, better food offerings etc. Often used to be something going on on the training pitch in front of KR pre match

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint My Fault View Post
    I'm not sure about music during the game, but I would like to see more going on outside the stadium and in the concourse pre game - we have plenty of space now to have some entertainment for kids, better food offerings etc. Often used to be something going on on the training pitch in front of KR pre match
    Yeah definitely, there's enough space to have a mini fan zone for the games that warrant it. Couple of food trucks, some pop up bars and music is all it would need and the club could be pulling in revenue 2-3 hours before kick off.

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    Yeah I agree the club could do more with the outside space, particularly in the summer months. Music/DJís and food/drink spaces would bring in more fans and revenue compared to what they have now. They have enough space for a marquee to attract people even if the weather is rubbish. Catalan away last year had a decent music offering pre-game and it helps attract people to come to the stadium beforehand.

    I normally head to weatherspoons beforehand but if they had different food and drink stands around the stadium Iíd probably head there a couple of hours before the game before going inside the stadium.


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    I've noticed in the FIFA world cup they have started to follow the US sports atmosphere model. RL needs to tap into this

    Edit. Looks like both MLB games in London are heading for a sell out. I do think the heads of the RFL / Superleague need to attend other sports to basically get ideas on atmosphere improvements for RL

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRLStatman View Post
    I've noticed in the FIFA world cup they have started to follow the US sports atmosphere model. RL needs to tap into this...
    Is that the bit were the crowd seem more interested in banging drums and dancing than watching the actual game?

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    Having lived in the US and travelled there extensively for work after that, I have been to many US sports grounds. Although I preferred NFL, the game that got the crowd going most was baseball. They really got the crowd involved at every stoppage of play, and there are a few of them in the US.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Is that the bit were the crowd seem more interested in banging drums and dancing than watching the actual game?
    Iím firmly in the atmosphere should be created by the fans and the tension, if there is any, on the field of play, camp. By way of an example, you donít have to support them, it would be hard to artificially generate the atmosphere found at Anfield. It would be equally difficult to create the atmosphere at a Grand Final although ďJamesĒ managed to create a lasting legacy with their pre-match entertainment in 2014.

    Having said that, I think more could be done pre-match, both inside and outside the ground, to create more of an extended match day event, particularly for children. I think we could learn from the USA about the overall experience and, in view of the current £2 million deficit, exploiting it.

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    I think Rugby League is starting to wake up to things slowly. Hull KR utilising the space where their worst stand once sat and turning it into a fan zone, Wigan creating the fan area at Robin Park that included the player walk through last year, Hull KR being introduced to the pitch by a band and London Broncos announcing this week that theyíre going to start a fan zone in 2023 are all examples of clubs working on their matchday experience. Ours isnít bad at all in hospitality but for the average fan, itís not the greatest. The Red V Cafe is small and every time Iíve been in, the service has been rubbish but aside from that, thereís nothing really, outside or inside the stadium that can be considered part of the matchday experience.

    I donít think weíre alone in being guilty of it and most clubs also are.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    I think Rugby League is starting to wake up to things slowly. Hull KR utilising the space where their worst stand once sat and turning it into a fan zone, Wigan creating the fan area at Robin Park that included the player walk through last year, Hull KR being introduced to the pitch by a band and London Broncos announcing this week that theyíre going to start a fan zone in 2023 are all examples of clubs working on their matchday experience. Ours isnít bad at all in hospitality but for the average fan, itís not the greatest. The Red V Cafe is small and every time Iíve been in, the service has been rubbish but aside from that, thereís nothing really, outside or inside the stadium that can be considered part of the matchday experience.

    I donít think weíre alone in being guilty of it and most clubs also are.
    For the world cup they had a couple of bits outside, bit of a lights arch and fire eaters.. not brilliant but something.

    We have a massive space outside the ground (someone must own it) you could have food and drink stalls every week..

    Again though kicking off at 8pm on work night makes it tight

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    I agree with Big Tuna and after 70 years of watching Saints and most of my time at matches shouting in support i have decided to give up , it does not matter if supporters anly want to sit talking or sulking at supporters who let themselves enjoy a gahe by shouting at a game .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    I’m firmly in the atmosphere should be created by the fans and the tension, if there is any, on the field of play, camp. By way of an example, you don’t have to support them, it would be hard to artificially generate the atmosphere found at Anfield. It would be equally difficult to create the atmosphere at a Grand Final although “James” managed to create a lasting legacy with their pre-match entertainment in 2014.

    Having said that, I think more could be done pre-match, both inside and outside the ground, to create more of an extended match day event, particularly for children. I think we could learn from the USA about the overall experience and, in view of the current £2 million deficit, exploiting it.
    OK. I was probably being a little sarcastic, and I do have a reputation for turning up to games at the last minute, as I'm not particularly interested in pre-match 'entertainment'.
    And to be honest, I've never seen anything at any of the club grounds or RL events over the years that I've been to, that has come close to changing my mind.
    I take your point about maybe having something for children though, and maybe PS's food and drinks stalls idea has some legs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    OK. I was probably being a little sarcastic, and I do have a reputation for turning up to games at the last minute, as I'm not particularly interested in pre-match 'entertainment'.
    And too be honest, I've never seen anything at any of the club grounds or RL events over the years that I've been to, that has come close to changing my mind.
    I take your point about maybe having something for children though, and maybe PS's food and drinks stalls idea has some legs?
    I was agreeing with you Barry. I think a lot of fans are happy going to the pub before the game and a good game with a decent number of opposition fans generates its own atmosphere. There is room to improve pre-match stuff though. More for parents and children and people like me who sometimes turn up hungry and too late for the pub.

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