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Thread: Mos

  1. #26
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    Part of the issue is doing it before the Grand Final. Leeds's golden generation was never going to win individual awards those years because they half assed the season and turned it on at the end. Winning the GF was their success but the awards are given out before then.

    I think Woolf is a bit unlucky this time. Winning the LLS was enough for McNamara to get it last year but this year he's up against Peet who's made a massive difference to Wigan both on and off the field, and Rowley who, whilst getting credit for Salford's results in the second half of the season has somehow been exonorated for their nine defeats in 10 games earlier in the year. I'd have actually had Rohan Smith ahead of Rowley.

    Personally I'd have given a joint award to Powell and Agar.

  2. #27
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    Not really sure why Peet was even in contention tbh. He's got the 2nd best squad in the league and coached them to 2nd place. Never threatened to get 1st. Won a CC but limped out at the semi-final. Their year has been good but it's not like he's shown a load of skill to get out of his team what he's got out of them.

    Rowley or Woolf all day. I would say Rohan Smith deserves an honourable mention but he looks better due to how awful Agar is. That squad should be walking into the play-offs at the bare minimum. They've been fantastic in the play-offs, though I guess it's all decided before the play-offs start.

    Rowley has shown real skill in getting that squad to where he's got them, really great stuff. Everyone had them on for a relegation scrap at the start of the year. Squad full of journeymen (except Croft). Got them playing really scintillating rugby, turned over all the big teams and got into the play-offs. Great stuff from him.

    Woolf self explanatory. Excellence week after week, year after year. Won the lot in his time here, and possibly would have won the super league title in every single year he's been in the comp but never got coach of the year. Pathetic and shows it up for the absolute sham that it is imo.

    Croft winning MoS is laughable. The top 3 was laughable in general imo. French, Lomax, Field. In that order. Shout out to Joe Batchelor too who has been excellent week in and week out and probably got nowhere near.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poysaint View Post
    Not really sure why Peet was even in contention tbh. He's got the 2nd best squad in the league and coached them to 2nd place. Never threatened to get 1st. Won a CC but limped out at the semi-final. Their year has been good but it's not like he's shown a load of skill to get out of his team what he's got out of them.

    Rowley or Woolf all day. I would say Rohan Smith deserves an honourable mention but he looks better due to how awful Agar is. That squad should be walking into the play-offs at the bare minimum. They've been fantastic in the play-offs, though I guess it's all decided before the play-offs start.

    Rowley has shown real skill in getting that squad to where he's got them, really great stuff. Everyone had them on for a relegation scrap at the start of the year. Squad full of journeymen (except Croft). Got them playing really scintillating rugby, turned over all the big teams and got into the play-offs. Great stuff from him.

    Woolf self explanatory. Excellence week after week, year after year. Won the lot in his time here, and possibly would have won the super league title in every single year he's been in the comp but never got coach of the year. Pathetic and shows it up for the absolute sham that it is imo.

    Croft winning MoS is laughable. The top 3 was laughable in general imo. French, Lomax, Field. In that order. Shout out to Joe Batchelor too who has been excellent week in and week out and probably got nowhere near.

    STOP talking sense...................

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaVenRouge View Post
    Please tell me that didn't happen? Sky will take any opportunity to talk the game down.

    Tired of Bill Arthur commenting on how few people are at the game, or surprise that there is a large crowd
    Oh It happened!! Asked him exactly what were you doing at about 7:15 last night!!

  5. #30
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    The big deal about the Bevan French deal was laughable. In reality Wigan must have been hanging on to announce it as a morale booster in the week prior to them appearing in the Grand Final...Oh well, nevermind,

  6. #31
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    If you take French and Field out of the equation and then just go ahead and take Woolf and Saints out too then I can see the merits of Croft and Rowley taking the RL's twisted logic awards. Peet knows how lucky he is to have those 2 in his mediocre team and I hope he remembers that when he's spit polishing his award.

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    Tbh I don't think the MOS is worth bothering about . The selection process is a joke and if we had players winning it on a regular basis that would mean we are bang average at best .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke Eddington View Post
    The big deal about the Bevan French deal was laughable. In reality Wigan must have been hanging on to announce it as a morale booster in the week prior to them appearing in the Grand Final...Oh well, nevermind,
    They have done well to keep French it must have cost them an arm and a leg and a brown jiffy bag envelope. Not always good for team morale if his salary is say twice the amount of the players who create the try's for him.

  9. #34
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    I've always said that whoever wins MoS should be a player that, if available, every club in the comp would try and sign - as by reference, he's the best player in the league at that time:
    So which of these would you have been happy that Saints signed if they had been available (obviously apart from Ben Barba)?
    2013 - Danny Brough
    2014 - Daryl Clark
    2015 - Zak Hardaker
    2016 - Danny Houghton
    2017 - Luke Gale
    2018 - Ben Barba
    2019 - Jackson Hastings
    2020 - Paul McShane
    2021 - Sam Tomkins
    2022 - Brodie Croft

    It's the best player in an average team that's going to get the MoS points week on week, rather than the player that has had the overall best impact on the league across the season.
    You look at James Roby, because he puts in a minimum of an 8 out of 10 every week, it's become the norm, so nobody sees it as being special. Granted, he won the MoS back in 2007, but that was as an interchange, coming off the bench for Cunningham?

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samphire15 View Post
    I've always said that whoever wins MoS should be a player that, if available, every club in the comp would try and sign - as by reference, he's the best player in the league at that time:
    So which of these would you have been happy that Saints signed if they had been available (obviously apart from Ben Barba)?
    2013 - Danny Brough
    2014 - Daryl Clark
    2015 - Zak Hardaker
    2016 - Danny Houghton
    2017 - Luke Gale
    2018 - Ben Barba
    2019 - Jackson Hastings
    2020 - Paul McShane
    2021 - Sam Tomkins
    2022 - Brodie Croft

    It's the best player in an average team that's going to get the MoS points week on week, rather than the player that has had the overall best impact on the league across the season.
    You look at James Roby, because he puts in a minimum of an 8 out of 10 every week, it's become the norm, so nobody sees it as being special. Granted, he won the MoS back in 2007, but that was as an interchange, coming off the bench for Cunningham?
    That's a shocking list

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samphire15 View Post
    I've always said that whoever wins MoS should be a player that, if available, every club in the comp would try and sign - as by reference, he's the best player in the league at that time:
    So which of these would you have been happy that Saints signed if they had been available (obviously apart from Ben Barba)?
    2013 - Danny Brough
    2014 - Daryl Clark
    2015 - Zak Hardaker
    2016 - Danny Houghton
    2017 - Luke Gale
    2018 - Ben Barba
    2019 - Jackson Hastings
    2020 - Paul McShane
    2021 - Sam Tomkins
    2022 - Brodie Croft

    It's the best player in an average team that's going to get the MoS points week on week, rather than the player that has had the overall best impact on the league across the season.
    You look at James Roby, because he puts in a minimum of an 8 out of 10 every week, it's become the norm, so nobody sees it as being special. Granted, he won the MoS back in 2007, but that was as an interchange, coming off the bench for Cunningham?
    Vs this list

    2008 James Graham St Helens
    2007 James Roby St Helens
    2006 Paul Wellens St Helens
    2005 Jamie Lyon St Helens
    2004 Andy Farrell Wigan Warriors
    2003 Jamie Peacock Bradford Bulls
    2002 Paul Sculthorpe St Helens
    2001 Paul Sculthorpe St Helens
    2000 Sean Long St Helens
    1999 Adrian Vowles Castleford Tigers
    1998 Iestyn Harris Leeds Rhinos
    1997 James Lowes Bradford Bulls
    1996 Andy Farrell Wigan Warriors
    1995 Denis Betts Wigan
    1994 Jonathan Davies Warrington
    1993 Andy Platt Wigan
    1992 Dean Bell Wigan
    1991 Garry Schofield Leeds
    1990 Shaun Edwards Wigan
    1989 Ellery Hanley Wigan
    I ate a tuna sandwich on my first day!

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I think so too, its similar to James Roby his high standard is often dismissed over the years, strange that over the last 5 years its usually the coach who wins the LLS wins the coac of the year but thats not happened this year. For me Jonny Lomax is Man of Steel in every sense of the, word plays with an injured arm and takes loads of heavy knocks but gets up and carries on playing the game.

    Glad Croft has got it over Field, Croft is not a one trick pony and is a lot more skilful than Field, we must acknowledge that Field is an exciting player though and catches the eye with his breaks in open field. Its going to be very difficult for Jack Welsby to win Man of Steel there are too many quality saints players to take MOS points off him, I expect Dodd will feature a lot more next year.

    Lomax as been the best in SL for about 3 years.

  13. #38
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    These awards aren't worth getting worked up about, 9 of the last ten MOS winners would swap an individual honour for a GF ring in a heartbeat (only Hardaker got both in the same year).

  14. #39
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    I think Field was the obvious choice, in the end he has probably suffered due to French being in form for Wigan at the back end of the year.

    I know we shouldn't listen to the Aussies as much as we do but saying that a guy that couldn't get a job to save his life in the NRL is the best player in our league is just awful and makes us look like a joke.

    I can understand the politics behind picking Welsby as MOS. He has just won young player back to back which I think only Andy Farrell has done. It would be a bit of a statement in a World Cup year to pin the RFLs flag to the next English superstar.

    So Field was the best player, Welsby the best for the games image, Croft a joke.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samphire15 View Post
    I've always said that whoever wins MoS should be a player that, if available, every club in the comp would try and sign - as by reference, he's the best player in the league at that time:
    So which of these would you have been happy that Saints signed if they had been available (obviously apart from Ben Barba)?
    2013 - Danny Brough
    2014 - Daryl Clark
    2015 - Zak Hardaker
    2016 - Danny Houghton
    2017 - Luke Gale
    2018 - Ben Barba
    2019 - Jackson Hastings
    2020 - Paul McShane
    2021 - Sam Tomkins
    2022 - Brodie Croft

    It's the best player in an average team that's going to get the MoS points week on week, rather than the player that has had the overall best impact on the league across the season.
    You look at James Roby, because he puts in a minimum of an 8 out of 10 every week, it's become the norm, so nobody sees it as being special. Granted, he won the MoS back in 2007, but that was as an interchange, coming off the bench for Cunningham?
    Brough in 2013 was a part of a great Huddersfield side that should have been champions. Hardacker was good for Leeds in 2015 but probably deserved it more in 2017 instead of Gale. The rest are all very meh and don't really represent who was good that season. Pre then we weren't short of bad MOS. Vowels in 1999 was a particularly poor choice given that it should have really been a Bulls player. Henry Paul or Jamie Peacock would have been much better choices.

    Rugby League suffers terribly from trophy syndrome. I dont know if it is a northern thing or just an RL thing but we hate celebrating winners.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samphire15 View Post
    I've always said that whoever wins MoS should be a player that, if available, every club in the comp would try and sign - as by reference, he's the best player in the league at that time:
    So which of these would you have been happy that Saints signed if they had been available (obviously apart from Ben Barba)?
    2013 - Danny Brough
    2014 - Daryl Clark
    2015 - Zak Hardaker
    2016 - Danny Houghton
    2017 - Luke Gale
    2018 - Ben Barba
    2019 - Jackson Hastings
    2020 - Paul McShane
    2021 - Sam Tomkins
    2022 - Brodie Croft

    It's the best player in an average team that's going to get the MoS points week on week, rather than the player that has had the overall best impact on the league across the season.
    You look at James Roby, because he puts in a minimum of an 8 out of 10 every week, it's become the norm, so nobody sees it as being special. Granted, he won the MoS back in 2007, but that was as an interchange, coming off the bench for Cunningham?
    These players were all brilliant in the year they won it.

    So to answer your question, most if not all would. In some of these years Saints really struggled, it shouldn't be forgotten.

    If Luke Walsh hadn't suffered the terrible injury he did, he would've stood a very good chance in 2014.

    Luke Gale was the best half in the competition in 2017 in that fantastic Cas side at the time.

    Hastings was great for Salford and better than Lomax and Fages in 2019.

    Tomkins was better than Coote last year.

    Croft has been better than Lomax and Welsby this year.

    And on Roby, there have been years when he hasn't been the best 9. Clark and Houghton have been better than him at times (as above) and there was a year when Matt Parcell was too.

    For me it was only Barba who I would've picked as MoS. He was the standout player in the competition in 2018 and was an absolute joy to watch.
    *Not to be confused with Mike Stephenson, MBE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    These players were all brilliant in the year they won it.

    So to answer your question, most if not all would. In some of these years Saints really struggled, it shouldn't be forgotten.

    If Luke Walsh hadn't suffered the terrible injury he did, he would've stood a very good chance in 2014.

    Luke Gale was the best half in the competition in 2017 in that fantastic Cas side at the time.

    Hastings was great for Salford and better than Lomax and Fages in 2019.

    Tomkins was better than Coote last year.

    Croft has been better than Lomax and Welsby this year.

    And on Roby, there have been years when he hasn't been the best 9. Clark and Houghton have been better than him at times (as above) and there was a year when Matt Parcell was too.

    For me it was only Barba who I would've picked as MoS. He was the standout player in the competition in 2018 and was an absolute joy to watch.
    I have seen some very crazy comments tonight with the disciplinary news, but nothing takes the biscuit like there was a period where Houghton was better than Roby!

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    I have seen some very crazy comments tonight with the disciplinary news, but nothing takes the biscuit like there was a period where Houghton was better than Roby!
    In fairness to Danny Houghton, in his pomp he was very good for Hull. Off memory, think this was the period when they had their (relative) purple patch.
    *Not to be confused with Mike Stephenson, MBE

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    I have seen some very crazy comments tonight with the disciplinary news, but nothing takes the biscuit like there was a period where Houghton was better than Roby!
    But you need to understand that there are years when Roby loses all his skills and abilities that he’s acquired over many years, meaning that players like Houghton automatically become better than him

    When a new challenger appears he just gets them all back!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samphire15 View Post
    I've always said that whoever wins MoS should be a player that, if available, every club in the comp would try and sign - as by reference, he's the best player in the league at that time:
    So which of these would you have been happy that Saints signed if they had been available (obviously apart from Ben Barba)?
    2013 - Danny Brough
    2014 - Daryl Clark
    2015 - Zak Hardaker
    2016 - Danny Houghton
    2017 - Luke Gale
    2018 - Ben Barba
    2019 - Jackson Hastings
    2020 - Paul McShane
    2021 - Sam Tomkins
    2022 - Brodie Croft

    It's the best player in an average team that's going to get the MoS points week on week, rather than the player that has had the overall best impact on the league across the season.
    You look at James Roby, because he puts in a minimum of an 8 out of 10 every week, it's become the norm, so nobody sees it as being special. Granted, he won the MoS back in 2007, but that was as an interchange, coming off the bench for Cunningham?
    Anyone can have one good year. Theres arguments for all of these to be reasonable men of steel based on the seasons they had. Except for Paul McShane, that one is complete bollocks.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  21. #46
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    There’s often a slight Yorkshire bias when the awards are given out for some reason, not sure why

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    In fairness to Danny Houghton, in his pomp he was very good for Hull. Off memory, think this was the period when they had their (relative) purple patch.
    Which is sort of the point people have been trying to make. A good player elevating a team above complete mediocrity will always win out against the great player in the great team as it currently stands. In 2016 Hull finished 3rd on points difference (equal with Saints) and lost in the playoff semi finals (same as Saints). I know they won the CC that year, but that alone can’t have made him the best player in the competition that year.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    These players were all brilliant in the year they won it.

    So to answer your question, most if not all would. In some of these years Saints really struggled, it shouldn't be forgotten.

    If Luke Walsh hadn't suffered the terrible injury he did, he would've stood a very good chance in 2014.

    Luke Gale was the best half in the competition in 2017 in that fantastic Cas side at the time.

    Hastings was great for Salford and better than Lomax and Fages in 2019.

    Tomkins was better than Coote last year.

    Croft has been better than Lomax and Welsby this year.

    And on Roby, there have been years when he hasn't been the best 9. Clark and Houghton have been better than him at times (as above) and there was a year when Matt Parcell was too.

    For me it was only Barba who I would've picked as MoS. He was the standout player in the competition in 2018 and was an absolute joy to watch.
    MS there is not one season when Roby was not as good if not better than them 9`s.
    Clark had that good season but even then he was equal not better.
    Three 9`s in the last decade!! yet Cunnigham never won it, Roby once, true reflection of the best???
    I agree on Hastings, Tomkins and Hardaker in 2015 was very good.
    Croft has been as good as Johnny this year not better or stand out.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    MS there is not one season when Roby was not as good if not better than them 9`s.
    Clark had that good season but even then he was equal not better.
    Three 9`s in the last decade!! yet Cunnigham never won it, Roby once, true reflection of the best???
    I agree on Hastings, Tomkins and Hardaker in 2015 was very good.
    Croft has been as good as Johnny this year not better or stand out.
    I pretty much agree with this. Clark did have one very good year when it was a toss up between him and Roby. Houghton was probably second best 9 to Robes a few times, but quite a gap between them. I don’t begrudge Croft winning it this season, was he the best player, probably not. But he did have a good season and got the rest of the Salford back line firing.
    I find it difficult to understand why Lomax always seems to be overlooked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Anyone can have one good year. There’s arguments for all of these to be reasonable men of steel based on the seasons they had. Except for Paul McShane, that one is complete bollocks.
    So, if the previous way of selection (i.e. back to the players picking via a voting system) would these players really have won in their years?
    As JBT states, look at the years before this, no one could really argue with the winners then as they were probably the best player in the League at that time.

    They got rid of the old system as they said it was being abused:
    1. Players couldn't vote for anyone in their club
    2. Some of the players voting was open to ridicule, but as the voting outcome was presented for all to see, it painted them, not the outcome in a bad light.

    Now we have a system where it's decided on a match-by-match basis, so for teams like Saints and Wigan, literally, anyone from the 17 could pick up the MoM points, whereas, as previously stated, a good player in an average team will tend to pick up the majority of the points in their matches. I've also seen what I think are some laughable decisions for MoM in the live games - how many times is a player picked as MoM when, say, he's scored a hat-trick of tries, yet they were all just simple run-ins, rather than the player(s), that did the work to create those tries?

    With the current system, it's effectively one person's point of view that decides the points, whereas, under the old system, it was a collective decision, spread across 200-300 players, choosing the player that they thought had performed the best across the whole season, not just in selective matches.

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