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Thread: Saints Support V Population.

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    Default Saints Support V Population.

    Reading through some comments on RL Fans and we seem to be getting comments about our poor support with how well were doing. I looked into population from the Superleague clubs and was surprised we are the 2nd lowest population in the league & I didn't realise how big Wakefield is?

    Castleford: 44209
    ST Helens: 102629
    Huddersfield: 146234
    Warrington: 202200
    Salford: 262700
    Hull:323000
    Wigan: 330700
    Wakefield: 333564
    Leeds: 526043

    Someone else can work out average attendance to population, going off those figures we must grab over 15/20%, Leeds ok get big crowds but % to population is poor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rommel View Post
    Reading through some comments on RL Fans and we seem to be getting comments about our poor support with how well were doing. I looked into population from the Superleague clubs and was surprised we are the 2nd lowest population in the league & I didn't realise how big Wakefield is?

    Castleford: 44209
    ST Helens: 102629
    Huddersfield: 146234
    Warrington: 202200
    Salford: 262700
    Hull:323000
    Wigan: 330700
    Wakefield: 333564
    Leeds: 526043

    Someone else can work out average attendance to population, going off those figures we must grab over 15/20%, Leeds ok get big crowds but % to population is poor?
    Surely the Wakefield figure includes all the small towns within the borough whereas the St Helens figure is just St Helens itself, excluding Newton Le Willows, Rainhill and even Haydock? I may be wrong and realise that Wakefield is a city and, on paper at least, is the size of Cardiff.

    P.S. It doesn’t seem to be the size of Cardiff when you’re actually there but it includes lots of towns. I don’t think our support is bad anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    Surely the Wakefield figure includes all the small towns within the borough whereas the St Helens figure is just St Helens itself, excluding Newton Le Willows, Rainhill and even Haydock? I may be wrong and realise that Wakefield is a city and, on paper at least, is the size of Cardiff.
    Error

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    Where did you get all the population figures from? A cursory glance at Wikipedia tells me a completely different story.

    Wakefield had a population of 99,251 in the 2011 census whereas the
    City of Wakefield had a population of 325,837. The City of Wakefield includes Normanton, Pontefract, Featherstone, Castleford, Knottingley, Ossett, Horbury, Hemsworth, South Kirby & Moorthorpe and South Elmsall.

    Wigan at 330k is the entire borough - the town is 107k. St Helens at 102k is the town. Warrington's number is the borough but can be halved: Old Town and New Town. Experience from working round there tells me that the vast majority of Wolfs fans are from the Old Town, ergo 101k. Similarly, Hull at 256k can be halved into East and West. And so on.

    Therefore, using the town figure and average attendances from 2019 (the last full season) the best attended clubs are ...

    Castleford = 7253 of 44k = 16.5%

    St. Helens = 11,910 of 102k = 11.7%

    Warrington = 10,970 of 101k = 10.9%

    Wigan = 11,432 of 107k = 10.7%

    Hull FC = 11,478 of 128k = 9%

    Catalans = 10,560 of 121k = 8.7%

    Hull KR = 8185 of 128k = 6.4%

    Wakefield = 5468 of 99k = 5.5%


    Salford = 3676 of 103k = 3.6%

    Huddersfield = 5222 of 162k = 3.2%

    Leeds = 11,838 of 516k = 2.3%







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    Quote Originally Posted by RedVee Admin View Post
    Where did you get all the population figures from? A cursory glance at Wikipedia tells me a completely different story.

    Wakefield had a population of 99,251 in the 2011 census whereas the
    City of Wakefield had a population of 325,837. The City of Wakefield includes Normanton, Pontefract, Featherstone, Castleford, Knottingley, Ossett, Horbury, Hemsworth, South Kirby & Moorthorpe and South Elmsall.

    Wigan at 330k is the entire borough - the town is 107k. St Helens at 102k is the town. Warrington's number is the borough but can be halved: Old Town and New Town. Experience from working round there tells me that the vast majority of Wolfs fans are from the Old Town, ergo 101k. Similarly, Hull at 256k can be halved into East and West. And so on.

    Therefore, using the town figure and average attendances from 2019 (the last full season) the best attended clubs are ...

    Castleford = 7253 of 44k = 16.5%

    St. Helens = 11,910 of 102k = 11.7%

    Warrington = 10,970 of 101k = 10.9%

    Wigan = 11,432 of 107k = 10.7%

    Hull FC = 11,478 of 128k = 9%

    Catalans = 10,560 of 121k = 8.7%

    Hull KR = 8185 of 128k = 6.4%

    Wakefield = 5468 of 99k = 5.5%


    Salford = 3676 of 103k = 3.6%

    Huddersfield = 5222 of 162k = 3.2%

    Leeds = 11,838 of 516k = 2.3%





    The population for St. Helens is significantly higher than stated .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
    The population for St. Helens is significantly higher than stated .
    I think RedVee Administratorís figures are right. Even when I was at school we were always told that the population was 100,000 and I donít think itís grown much. Back then Wigan and Warrington were smaller but the 1970s boundary changes gave them more satellite towns and villages and Warrington was also classed as a New Town and encouraged to grow.

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    It's that old chestnut again!

    It used to really annoy me when London was included in these sort of lists, where the population of Greater London was quoted rather than defining a sensible 'catchment area' for wherever the clubs were based. The same reasoning applies to all really.
    Regarding our own support, I would say that it's pretty strong.
    A case of 'sour grapes' from some RL Fans maybe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedVee Admin View Post
    Wigan at 330k is the entire borough - the town is 107k. St Helens at 102k is the town.

    snip

    Therefore, using the town figure and average attendances from 2019 (the last full season) the best attended clubs are ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
    The population for St. Helens is significantly higher than stated .
    The borough of is.

    I was and am quite clear. The town is 102k and I've used the town figures for all the teams.


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    In regards to that I've always felt a lot should be done to try and reach the rest of Merseyside for support.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    used to really annoy me when London was included in these sort of lists, where the population of Greater London was quoted
    Indeed, there has to be a reasonable catchment area but even then attendances are skewed with other circumstances such as visiting fans, big games, and so on.


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    Quote Originally Posted by RedVee Admin View Post
    Indeed, there has to be a reasonable catchment area but even then attendances are skewed with other circumstances such as visiting fans, big games, and so on.
    Are we financing other clubs significantly to a few clubs with our away support and our current league status.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Harp View Post
    Scousers never have, and never will be bothered about RL save from the odd one. I wouldn't even waste time trying to get them to watch.
    Add to that their downright contempt of all things east of Huyton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Add to that their downright contempt of all things east of Huyton.
    I think you can extend that to Prescot nowadays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Harp View Post
    Scousers never have, and never will be bothered about RL save from the odd one. I wouldn't even waste time trying to get them to watch.
    Yep

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Are we financing other clubs significantly to a few clubs with our away support and our current league status.
    I’ll use one prime example. The worst supported club regularly accepts thousands of us to their wide open, exposed to the elements, crumbling concrete terrace but the return fixture sees literally none of them at our gaff.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I think you can extend that to Prescot nowadays.
    Oh yeh I forgot now that Prescot has a national theatre it has all of a sudden become part of Liverpool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Add to that their downright contempt of all things east of Huyton.
    To be fair, that seems to be a two way thing for many on here...Nearly fell off my chair though to learn that the Shakespeare thing had actually happened!

    Joking apart, there must be some untapped support, or sponsorship to the West. I'm not sure what the club need to do to find that, but 'doing nothing' isn't an option IMO.
    (that last bit isn't aimed at anyone here BTW)

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    Let’s have the stats for the borough given that st Helen’s is a metropolitan borough

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    Can you confirm where at Helen’s start and ends in term of your stats !

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Harp View Post
    Scousers never have, and never will be bothered about RL save from the odd one. I wouldn't even waste time trying to get them to watch.
    I know of at least five who are interested albeit one who supports Wigan. We should do all we can to get them interested.

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    Think St Helens where doing some work with Liverpool Lions RLFC not to long ago

    Also, born and bred Scouser here, i love Rugby League and St Helens . Cant stand football. But its the biggest sport in the world and the city has 2 clubs. So its always going to be the main sport.

    Me personally, i think footy is garbage though
    Last edited by sinkers89; 18th July 2022 at 20:00.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
    Let’s have the stats for the borough given that st Helen’s is a metropolitan borough
    Which would dilute the percentage and serve no real purpose. Plus, if you do that with Saints you have to do it with all and Castleford doesn't have a borough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Side Of The Moon View Post
    Can you confirm where at Helen’s start and ends in term of your stats !
    Yes, it starts and ends with the what the 2011 Census says.

    I'm really getting the feeling that you're from Rainford - Haydock - Newton - Similar and objecting at not being included in what is a meaningless and unprovable willy measuring exercise.


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    Quote Originally Posted by RedVee Admin View Post
    Which would dilute the percentage and serve no real purpose. Plus, if you do that with Saints you have to do it with all and Castleford doesn't have a borough.


    Yes, it starts and ends with the what the 2011 Census says.

    I'm really getting the feeling that you're from Rainford - Haydock - Newton - Similar and objecting at not being included in what is a meaningless and unprovable willy measuring exercise.



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    Quote Originally Posted by RedVee Admin View Post
    Iíll use one prime example. The worst supported club regularly accepts thousands of us to their wide open, exposed to the elements, crumbling concrete terrace but the return fixture sees literally none of them at our gaff.
    Leeds?

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    I think the away fans are the issue, we've definitely seen away fans less and less - I wonder without sounding arrogant a lot of teams expect a defeat, and would rather choose an away game they may win

    It really does make the Catalans/Toulouse bring no away fans rather moot when Huddersfield bring a similar amount to what we took to Toulouse in June.

    That said, I've always thought if you're relying on away fans your business model is flawed

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