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Thread: Future Structure for RL Competitions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    Cornwall is the Rugby Union version of Cumbria. There is a lot of untapped potential there. If they are planning to take things seriously then that could be a very interesting place to have a team.
    i live in cornwall and would like to see it do well, but there is complete apathy here. if they can sustain a lower league team i would be surprised

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    Cornwall is the Rugby Union version of Cumbria. There is a lot of untapped potential there. If they are planning to take things seriously then that could be a very interesting place to have a team.
    These ideas read like the ravings of a mad man.

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    I am a rugby league expansionist and have been involved in promoting and driving the game probably more than most on here. My credentials go back to my university days, being part of the early first teams at Staffordshire University to moving to Oxford and building a team there called the Oxford Sharks which eventually became the Oxford Cavaliers. I remember sitting in on meetings which included people from the very strong Midlands league at the time, the South West league and the very strong London league. The meetings were exciting and full of people with fantastic ideas – people who were living in far flung places of the UK far from the M62 who wanted to wave the RL flag and take the game forward. People like Lionel Hurst in Swindon and Neil Tunnicliffe in Oxford (who eventually became the Chief Executive of the Rugby League for a short period) were fantastic people who just loved the game.

    Building a club and team from scratch in a non RL area is a thankless task. It becomes all consuming. You can’t just advertise or put the word out like you used to be able to in RL towns and cities and players turn up with their boots, because those players are just not there. In those days you went to the pubs where expat Northerners drank or the University bars or the pubs where the Aussies and Kiwis drank and eventually you built a rag tag team and if you were lucky a few locals had a go and a few Union players. It was also thankless because of the lack of interest in what we were doing outside of the RL heartlands. As a group of teams, we contacted several bodies for help in promoting the game, help in administering the leagues, help with advice on set up and publicity and help with general coaching advice. The Rugby League had no interest whatsoever, BARLA dismissed us as not relevant, preferring to concentrate on their tours, dinners and self interest and the only people that seemed to care at the time was Open Rugby magazine. It was a fantastic monthly magazine that promoted the game, they listed the leagues and the results each month and were the sole voice of support.

    At that time (1989/1990) there was a strong Midlands League, Redditch, Stoke, Leicester, Oxford, Swindon, Birmingham Police plus others, a very strong London league, mainly with teams made up of Aussies, Kiwis and other island nations and a strong South West league, lead by Bath and Bristol. Indeed, playing the London teams could be a bit of a lottery as often they were scattered with ex Aussie and Kiwi past internationals, who had retired and were working in London. I estimate that south of Stoke, there were probably around 40 teams playing RL at that time. I believe that it is at this first point in time that Rugby League missed the expansion boat (the second being when the SKY money appeared). It missed the boat because at the time the Rugby League and BARLA were happy with what they had in the North of England and didn’t give two hoots about anything south of Warrington.

    I sent a long letter to Open Rugby at the time saying that, in my humble opinion, the time was now for expansion. My suggested plan was to put money into the next team down from the RL heartlands and then move South through the country supporting teams to move to semi pro and then pro. So Stoke, Redditch, Birmingham, Coventry, Leicester, Oxford, Cambridge, etc. National expansion, establishing teams on a campaign that moved South, but supporting the amateur clubs who were already in existence until the money/support reached them. I suggested a similar plan moving north, into the North East and Scotland, eventually coming back full circle linking back into Cumbria. It was probably a pie in the sky dream, but “evolving expansion” seemed to make sense to me, joining up all these distant outposts across the country.

    Fast forward in time and the creation of teams like Kent Invicta, Paris St Germain, Toronto and even Fulham and eventually London. I was pleased by the expansion of the game but ultimately knew they would fail simply from my experience of creating an amateur rugby team in a none RL city. Just like the amateur teams, ultimately the Northern Super League and Championship clubs don’t really care. Fan bases and clubs have to be created and evolve and not simply be dropped into a town or area. Rugby League in the South of France is different as there is a long history and plenty of clubs in the region, but whether they should be in Super League is a discussion for another day. The long-term aim has to be a strong French League that stands on its own two feet.

    My ramblings bring us to the announcement about Cornwall. The expansionist in me welcomes the news and I think of all the clubs that have been created, they have one of the best chances to make a go of it. They are in a rugby area, there is no major football team nearby, they have an amateur structure to draw on and ultimately they have a backer with money. I genuinely hope is succeeds, but I still can’t help feeling that this club could have been the last in the chain if we had grasped opportunities more than 20 years ago. I already see parts of the press and people from clubs like Keighley moaning about the location, yet they were happy to take a flight to Catalan or Toronto. Expansion is fantastic and it is what is going to keep our game alive, but it has to be supported and nurtured and not left to a few enthusiastic individuals.
    Last edited by Laner; 4th November 2021 at 09:42.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laner View Post
    I am a rugby league expansionist and have been involved in promoting and driving the game probably more than most on here. My credentials go back to my university days, being part of the early first teams at Staffordshire University to moving to Oxford and building a team there called the Oxford Sharks which eventually became the Oxford Cavaliers. I remember sitting in on meetings which included people from the very strong Midlands league at the time, the South West league and the very strong London league. The meetings were exciting and full of people with fantastic ideas – people who were living in far flung places of the UK far from the M62 who wanted to wave the RL flag and take the game forward. People like Lionel Hurst in Swindon and Neil Tunnicliffe in Oxford (who eventually became the Chief Executive of the Rugby League for a short period) were fantastic people who just loved the game.

    Building a club and team from scratch in a non RL area is a thankless task. It becomes all consuming. You can’t just advertise or put the word out like you used to be able to in RL towns and cities and players turn up with their boots, because those players are just not there. In those days you went to the pubs where expat Northerners drank or the University bars or the pubs where the Aussies and Kiwis drank and eventually you built a rag tag team and if you were lucky a few locals had a go and a few Union players. It was also thankless because of the lack of interest in what we were doing outside of the RL heartlands. As a group of teams, we contacted several bodies for help in promoting the game, help in administering the leagues, help with advice on set up and publicity and help with general coaching advice. The Rugby League had no interest whatsoever, BARLA dismissed us as not relevant, preferring to concentrate on their tours, dinners and self interest and the only people that seemed to care at the time was Open Rugby magazine. It was a fantastic monthly magazine that promoted the game, they listed the leagues and the results each month and were the sole voice of support.

    At that time (1989/200) there was a strong Midlands League, Redditch, Stoke, Leicester, Oxford, Swindon, Birmingham Police plus others, a very strong London league, mainly with teams made up of Aussies, Kiwis and other island nations and a strong South West league, lead by Bath and Bristol. Indeed, playing the London teams could be a bit of a lottery as often they were scattered with ex Aussie and Kiwi past internationals, who had retired and were working in London. I estimate that south of Stoke, there were probably around 40 teams playing RL at that time. I believe that it is at this first point in time that Rugby League missed the expansion boat (the second being when the SKY money appeared). It missed the boat because at the time the Rugby League and BARLA were happy with what they had in the North of England and didn’t give two hoots about anything south of Warrington.

    I sent a long letter to Open Rugby at the time saying that, in my humble opinion, the time was now for expansion. My suggested plan was to put money into the next team down from the RL heartlands and then move South through the country supporting teams to move to semi pro and then pro. So Stoke, Redditch, Birmingham, Coventry, Leicester, Oxford, Cambridge, etc. National expansion, establishing teams on a campaign that moved South, but supporting the amateur clubs who were already in existence until the money/support reached them. I suggested a similar plan moving north, into the North East and Scotland, eventually coming back full circle linking back into Cumbria. It was probably a pie in the sky dream, but “evolving expansion” seemed to make sense to me, joining up all these distant outposts across the country.

    Fast forward in time and the creation of teams like Kent Invicta, Paris St Germain, Toronto and even Fulham and eventually London. I was pleased by the expansion of the game but ultimately knew they would fail simply from my experience of creating an amateur rugby team in a none RL city. Just like the amateur teams, ultimately the Northern Super League and Championship clubs don’t really care. Fan bases and clubs have to be created and evolve and not simply be dropped into a town or area. Rugby League in the South of France is different as there is a long history and plenty of clubs in the region, but whether they should be in Super League is a discussion for another day. The long-term aim has to be a strong French League that stands on its own two feet.

    My ramblings bring us to the announcement about Cornwall. The expansionist in me welcomes the news and I think of all the clubs that have been created, they have one of the best chances to make a go of it. They are in a rugby area, there is no major football team nearby, they have an amateur structure to draw on and ultimately they have a backer with money. I genuinely hope is succeeds, but I still can’t help feeling that this club could have been the last in the chain if we had grasped opportunities more than 20 years ago. I already see parts of the press and people from clubs like Keighley moaning about the location, yet they were happy to take a flight to Catalan or Toronto. Expansion is fantastic and it is what is going to keep our game alive, but it has to be supported and nurtured and not left to a few enthusiastic individuals.
    Can I for one thank you for all the hard work you have clearly put in over the years, like many thousands of others who have been let down by the people who have somehow been allowed to run this great game into the ground over the last 25 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laner View Post
    I am a rugby league expansionist and have been involved in promoting and driving the game probably more than most on here. My credentials go back to my university days, being part of the early first teams at Staffordshire University to moving to Oxford and building a team there called the Oxford Sharks which eventually became the Oxford Cavaliers. I remember sitting in on meetings which included people from the very strong Midlands league at the time, the South West league and the very strong London league. The meetings were exciting and full of people with fantastic ideas – people who were living in far flung places of the UK far from the M62 who wanted to wave the RL flag and take the game forward. People like Lionel Hurst in Swindon and Neil Tunnicliffe in Oxford (who eventually became the Chief Executive of the Rugby League for a short period) were fantastic people who just loved the game.

    Building a club and team from scratch in a non RL area is a thankless task. It becomes all consuming. You can’t just advertise or put the word out like you used to be able to in RL towns and cities and players turn up with their boots, because those players are just not there. In those days you went to the pubs where expat Northerners drank or the University bars or the pubs where the Aussies and Kiwis drank and eventually you built a rag tag team and if you were lucky a few locals had a go and a few Union players. It was also thankless because of the lack of interest in what we were doing outside of the RL heartlands. As a group of teams, we contacted several bodies for help in promoting the game, help in administering the leagues, help with advice on set up and publicity and help with general coaching advice. The Rugby League had no interest whatsoever, BARLA dismissed us as not relevant, preferring to concentrate on their tours, dinners and self interest and the only people that seemed to care at the time was Open Rugby magazine. It was a fantastic monthly magazine that promoted the game, they listed the leagues and the results each month and were the sole voice of support.

    At that time (1989/200) there was a strong Midlands League, Redditch, Stoke, Leicester, Oxford, Swindon, Birmingham Police plus others, a very strong London league, mainly with teams made up of Aussies, Kiwis and other island nations and a strong South West league, lead by Bath and Bristol. Indeed, playing the London teams could be a bit of a lottery as often they were scattered with ex Aussie and Kiwi past internationals, who had retired and were working in London. I estimate that south of Stoke, there were probably around 40 teams playing RL at that time. I believe that it is at this first point in time that Rugby League missed the expansion boat (the second being when the SKY money appeared). It missed the boat because at the time the Rugby League and BARLA were happy with what they had in the North of England and didn’t give two hoots about anything south of Warrington.

    I sent a long letter to Open Rugby at the time saying that, in my humble opinion, the time was now for expansion. My suggested plan was to put money into the next team down from the RL heartlands and then move South through the country supporting teams to move to semi pro and then pro. So Stoke, Redditch, Birmingham, Coventry, Leicester, Oxford, Cambridge, etc. National expansion, establishing teams on a campaign that moved South, but supporting the amateur clubs who were already in existence until the money/support reached them. I suggested a similar plan moving north, into the North East and Scotland, eventually coming back full circle linking back into Cumbria. It was probably a pie in the sky dream, but “evolving expansion” seemed to make sense to me, joining up all these distant outposts across the country.

    Fast forward in time and the creation of teams like Kent Invicta, Paris St Germain, Toronto and even Fulham and eventually London. I was pleased by the expansion of the game but ultimately knew they would fail simply from my experience of creating an amateur rugby team in a none RL city. Just like the amateur teams, ultimately the Northern Super League and Championship clubs don’t really care. Fan bases and clubs have to be created and evolve and not simply be dropped into a town or area. Rugby League in the South of France is different as there is a long history and plenty of clubs in the region, but whether they should be in Super League is a discussion for another day. The long-term aim has to be a strong French League that stands on its own two feet.

    My ramblings bring us to the announcement about Cornwall. The expansionist in me welcomes the news and I think of all the clubs that have been created, they have one of the best chances to make a go of it. They are in a rugby area, there is no major football team nearby, they have an amateur structure to draw on and ultimately they have a backer with money. I genuinely hope is succeeds, but I still can’t help feeling that this club could have been the last in the chain if we had grasped opportunities more than 20 years ago. I already see parts of the press and people from clubs like Keighley moaning about the location, yet they were happy to take a flight to Catalan or Toronto. Expansion is fantastic and it is what is going to keep our game alive, but it has to be supported and nurtured and not left to a few enthusiastic individuals.

    Brilliant post, and one that shames the administrators of the game. I remember the BARLA bods worried more about protecting their positions and jollies more than looking after the wider interests of the game.

    It's hard to imagine now, but there was indeed a time when there was a lot to be optimistic about with the sport, due to the dedication and hard work of people like you and the others you mention. And the Sky/SL thing came at the ideal time.

    Yet the numbskulls and the parochial cretins who seem to be perpetually in charge of the game squandered that opportunity. I used to hate Minceing Mo Lyndsay, but he at least had ambition for the sport and would embrace new ideas.
    I f*cking hate wi*an.

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    Promotion and relagation needs to be scrapped.

    And ideally super league slowly expand with teams that pass certain criteria.
    Raise or scrap the salary cap, but in a way that doesnt completely cripple the business of a team although maybe that should just be left to the teams as a business to handle.

    I dont know what the best plans for lower league teams should be that realisitcally will never or not in the near future be promoted to super league.

    There shouldnt be a any kind of barrier stopping the top teams in super league pulling away from the rest.. And eventually adding teams that can hopefully compete.

    Hopefully the French teams can build from what they achieved this year.

    Forget trying to get a team in London with no supporters until the top teams get even better, attract bigger names, the game gets a bigger profile, and the game as a whole becomes more attractive to a wider audience.
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    Cornwall will be gone inside five years. As Toronto, Hemel, Oxford, All Golds, Paris, Gateshead, Celtic all were. It’s simply a bloke who has, or claims to have, money sticking a pin in a map and setting up a team. The due diligence doesn’t look like it’s been done again and again, it doesn’t look like there’s any sort of plan or strategy from The RFL. I’m also sceptical about Eric Perez.

    Building a “Cornish first” side on an infrastructure of a very small handful of open age amateur teams, largely in their infancy, is lunacy. Playing in the summer between Union seasons, playing before going back to Uni and playing because you enjoy the game is a long way from League One level and it’s a recipe for disaster, IMO. That’s if they stick to that strategy. They could well go for the Toronto method of throwing invisible money at blokes full-time to annihilate anything that stands in their way. Will players be keen on moving to the opposite end of the country when lads from northern towns have always shown a hesitation in moving to London?

    It’s Rugby League being Rugby League and doing things half arsed, which saddens me. How many times must be we do the childish thing of touching a hot plate to see how hot it is after being told it’s hot? We’ve been here before. Again and again. I say this all as someone who thinks Catalans have been a welcome addition to the sport, someone who remembers London in the 90’s and even at Griffin Park and seeing the potential they had and someone who thinks Toulouse should have joined Super League years ago, on a similar plan to that of Catalans but this is different.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGSaint View Post
    Promotion and relagation needs to be scrapped.

    And ideally super league slowly expand with teams that pass certain criteria.
    Raise or scrap the salary cap, but in a way that doesnt completely cripple the business of a team although maybe that should just be left to the teams as a business to handle.

    I dont know what the best plans for lower league teams should be that realisitcally will never or not in the near future be promoted to super league.

    There shouldnt be a any kind of barrier stopping the top teams in super league pulling away from the rest.. And eventually adding teams that can hopefully compete.

    Hopefully the French teams can build from what they achieved this year.

    Forget trying to get a team in London with no supporters until the top teams get even better, attract bigger names, the game gets a bigger profile, and the game as a whole becomes more attractive to a wider audience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGSaint View Post
    Promotion and relagation needs to be scrapped.

    And ideally super league slowly expand with teams that pass certain criteria.
    Raise or scrap the salary cap, but in a way that doesnt completely cripple the business of a team although maybe that should just be left to the teams as a business to handle.

    I dont know what the best plans for lower league teams should be that realisitcally will never or not in the near future be promoted to super league.

    There shouldnt be a any kind of barrier stopping the top teams in super league pulling away from the rest.. And eventually adding teams that can hopefully compete.

    Hopefully the French teams can build from what they achieved this year.

    Forget trying to get a team in London with no supporters until the top teams get even better, attract bigger names, the game gets a bigger profile, and the game as a whole becomes more attractive to a wider audience.
    You mean like we had in the late '90s? When the game had household name players and we needed a 50/50 video ref decision against London in '96 to win the Championship (and they deprived Wigan of it by taking a point off them at Central Park), they finished (a worthy) 2nd in 1997 and got to the cup final in 1999 and Sheffield (another 'expansion club') won it in 1998, and both were amongst the few GB teams to beat an Aussie team in the ill fated 1997 World Club Challenge? Sadly we have allowed those opportunities (like so many others) to pass us by. (Though who knows what may have happened if London had been given that year's protection from relegation that some are now talking about a couple of years ago (when many thought they were unlucky to be relegated))

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laner View Post
    I am a rugby league expansionist and have been involved in promoting and driving the game probably more than most on here. My credentials go back to my university days, being part of the early first teams at Staffordshire University to moving to Oxford and building a team there called the Oxford Sharks which eventually became the Oxford Cavaliers. I remember sitting in on meetings which included people from the very strong Midlands league at the time, the South West league and the very strong London league. The meetings were exciting and full of people with fantastic ideas – people who were living in far flung places of the UK far from the M62 who wanted to wave the RL flag and take the game forward. People like Lionel Hurst in Swindon and Neil Tunnicliffe in Oxford (who eventually became the Chief Executive of the Rugby League for a short period) were fantastic people who just loved the game.

    Building a club and team from scratch in a non RL area is a thankless task. It becomes all consuming. You can’t just advertise or put the word out like you used to be able to in RL towns and cities and players turn up with their boots, because those players are just not there. In those days you went to the pubs where expat Northerners drank or the University bars or the pubs where the Aussies and Kiwis drank and eventually you built a rag tag team and if you were lucky a few locals had a go and a few Union players. It was also thankless because of the lack of interest in what we were doing outside of the RL heartlands. As a group of teams, we contacted several bodies for help in promoting the game, help in administering the leagues, help with advice on set up and publicity and help with general coaching advice. The Rugby League had no interest whatsoever, BARLA dismissed us as not relevant, preferring to concentrate on their tours, dinners and self interest and the only people that seemed to care at the time was Open Rugby magazine. It was a fantastic monthly magazine that promoted the game, they listed the leagues and the results each month and were the sole voice of support.

    At that time (1989/200) there was a strong Midlands League, Redditch, Stoke, Leicester, Oxford, Swindon, Birmingham Police plus others, a very strong London league, mainly with teams made up of Aussies, Kiwis and other island nations and a strong South West league, lead by Bath and Bristol. Indeed, playing the London teams could be a bit of a lottery as often they were scattered with ex Aussie and Kiwi past internationals, who had retired and were working in London. I estimate that south of Stoke, there were probably around 40 teams playing RL at that time. I believe that it is at this first point in time that Rugby League missed the expansion boat (the second being when the SKY money appeared). It missed the boat because at the time the Rugby League and BARLA were happy with what they had in the North of England and didn’t give two hoots about anything south of Warrington.

    I sent a long letter to Open Rugby at the time saying that, in my humble opinion, the time was now for expansion. My suggested plan was to put money into the next team down from the RL heartlands and then move South through the country supporting teams to move to semi pro and then pro. So Stoke, Redditch, Birmingham, Coventry, Leicester, Oxford, Cambridge, etc. National expansion, establishing teams on a campaign that moved South, but supporting the amateur clubs who were already in existence until the money/support reached them. I suggested a similar plan moving north, into the North East and Scotland, eventually coming back full circle linking back into Cumbria. It was probably a pie in the sky dream, but “evolving expansion” seemed to make sense to me, joining up all these distant outposts across the country.

    Fast forward in time and the creation of teams like Kent Invicta, Paris St Germain, Toronto and even Fulham and eventually London. I was pleased by the expansion of the game but ultimately knew they would fail simply from my experience of creating an amateur rugby team in a none RL city. Just like the amateur teams, ultimately the Northern Super League and Championship clubs don’t really care. Fan bases and clubs have to be created and evolve and not simply be dropped into a town or area. Rugby League in the South of France is different as there is a long history and plenty of clubs in the region, but whether they should be in Super League is a discussion for another day. The long-term aim has to be a strong French League that stands on its own two feet.

    My ramblings bring us to the announcement about Cornwall. The expansionist in me welcomes the news and I think of all the clubs that have been created, they have one of the best chances to make a go of it. They are in a rugby area, there is no major football team nearby, they have an amateur structure to draw on and ultimately they have a backer with money. I genuinely hope is succeeds, but I still can’t help feeling that this club could have been the last in the chain if we had grasped opportunities more than 20 years ago. I already see parts of the press and people from clubs like Keighley moaning about the location, yet they were happy to take a flight to Catalan or Toronto. Expansion is fantastic and it is what is going to keep our game alive, but it has to be supported and nurtured and not left to a few enthusiastic individuals.
    One of the best, most interesting and informative posts that I have read on here. A pity you did not get the support you deserved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Cornwall will be gone inside five years. As Toronto, Hemel, Oxford, All Golds, Paris, Gateshead, Celtic all were. It’s simply a bloke who has, or claims to have, money sticking a pin in a map and setting up a team. The due diligence doesn’t look like it’s been done again and again, it doesn’t look like there’s any sort of plan or strategy from The RFL. I’m also sceptical about Eric Perez.

    Building a “Cornish first” side on an infrastructure of a very small handful of open age amateur teams, largely in their infancy, is lunacy. Playing in the summer between Union seasons, playing before going back to Uni and playing because you enjoy the game is a long way from League One level and it’s a recipe for disaster, IMO. That’s if they stick to that strategy. They could well go for the Toronto method of throwing invisible money at blokes full-time to annihilate anything that stands in their way. Will players be keen on moving to the opposite end of the country when lads from northern towns have always shown a hesitation in moving to London?

    It’s Rugby League being Rugby League and doing things half arsed, which saddens me. How many times must be we do the childish thing of touching a hot plate to see how hot it is after being told it’s hot? We’ve been here before. Again and again. I say this all as someone who thinks Catalans have been a welcome addition to the sport, someone who remembers London in the 90’s and even at Griffin Park and seeing the potential they had and someone who thinks Toulouse should have joined Super League years ago, on a similar plan to that of Catalans but this is different.
    Did someone spill half your glass. This comes across as the type of thinking "Laner encountered when trying to get support for his team. I am not saying that they will succeed, but disparaging it without even seeing what plans or finance they have is ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Did someone spill half your glass. This comes across as the type of thinking "Laner encountered when trying to get support for his team. I am not saying that they will succeed, but disparaging it without even seeing what plans or finance they have is ridiculous.
    History suggests they won’t be around in five years and previous mistakes when admitting new clubs to the sport do not look to have been acknowledged let alone worked upon. It’s nothing like you’re suggesting, either. It’s actually very much similar to Laner, these new clubs historically don’t get the care and attention needed and are thrown into the sea without any aides or help and we wonder why they don’t last.

    How many times do we have to have someone, not necessarily you, say “well, we don’t even know the finances” when a new team is admitted before we look at the bigger issue and the complete lack of a strategy for new clubs?
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    Cornwall is the Rugby Union version of Cumbria...
    Sadly, I see this as a problem. There will be plenty down there wanting this to fail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Sadly, I see this as a problem. There will be plenty down there wanting this to fail.
    There might be, but there will be far more people who just donít care one way or the other.

    Penryn is all the way out at Falmouth so add an hour and half extra drive from Bude, south east Cornwall or Plymouth. It is remote and only die hard fans will travel from the far end of Cornwall to watch it. I canít see them getting regular crowds of say 10,000.

    There is no appetite for competitive sport down here, given that there is so many other things to do such as surfing, kayaking, sailing. Holiday makers head for the beach not for a sports stadium! Rugby union is a popular amateur sport down here but the nearest professional team is Exeter, which is almost two hours from Penryn. There is a reason why there is no professional football or union team in Cornwall

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    There might be, but there will be far more people who just donít care one way or the other.

    Penryn is all the way out at Falmouth so add an hour and half extra drive from Bude, south east Cornwall or Plymouth. It is remote and only die hard fans will travel from the far end of Cornwall to watch it. I canít see them getting regular crowds of say 10,000.

    There is no appetite for competitive sport down here, given that there is so many other things to do such as surfing, kayaking, sailing. Holiday makers head for the beach not for a sports stadium! Rugby union is a popular amateur sport down here but the nearest professional team is Exeter, which is almost two hours from Penryn. There is a reason why there is no professional football or union team in Cornwall
    Itís a very long time ago but, like others from St Helens, I had family in Redruth when I was a child. Back then the Redruth v Camborne game was spoken of by locals as if it was us and Wigan. Even so, as you say, there are no major Rugby Union teams in Cornwall today and the game may have shrunk as a spectator sport down there. When I was in a very local style pub in Menheniot a couple of years ago there was RU on the TV and most locals were watching it and cheering etc. but thatís probably as far as the interest goes.

    The only thing in Penrynís favour as a location is the existence of Falmouth University. There may be some interest among students from the heartlands and they may persuade their mates to go with them during term time. However, the only student I know of that went there went for the surfing (and as a secondary interest) the geology course he was on.

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    A key factor in making a go of any new club is to have your own piece of land and grow from there. Sharing with another sport is not the way to go. I hope this succeeds and gets backing from the RL family.

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    I would really like to see us grow the sport in places like Cumbria and Wales, where there is an appetite for the sport. If the RL had worked and supported new clubs in these areas as they should and carried out due diligence I am convinced that teams would thrive in these areas. Instead of which we get headline grabbing publicity for short lived ventures such as Toronto, which was an accident waiting to happen. Undoubtedly SL/RL bigwigs enjoyed their subsidised flights and accomodation over the pond to see Toronto play, who wouldn't? I am an expansionist in as much as I want to see the game grow where it already has roots (forget New York et al), meaning it has a good chance to succeed. I'm not a huge fan of Tolouse arriving, simply because, like Toronto they were big professional fish in a little pond of amateurs. Did anyone really think they wouldn't get promoted? All the odds were in their favour and the likes of Featherstone, Halifax etc never stood a chance. More junkets to France for the boys (and possibly girls?) though, eh?

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    We are not going anywhere until we have one administration for the whole of the game and a competent CEO to run it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    I would really like to see us grow the sport in places like Cumbria and Wales, where there is an appetite for the sport. If the RL had worked and supported new clubs in these areas as they should and carried out due diligence I am convinced that teams would thrive in these areas. Instead of which we get headline grabbing publicity for short lived ventures such as Toronto, which was an accident waiting to happen. Undoubtedly SL/RL bigwigs enjoyed their subsidised flights and accomodation over the pond to see Toronto play, who wouldn't? I am an expansionist in as much as I want to see the game grow where it already has roots (forget New York et al), meaning it has a good chance to succeed. I'm not a huge fan of Tolouse arriving, simply because, like Toronto they were big professional fish in a little pond of amateurs. Did anyone really think they wouldn't get promoted? All the odds were in their favour and the likes of Featherstone, Halifax etc never stood a chance. More junkets to France for the boys (and possibly girls?) though, eh?

    In a franchise system, I'd love to see a Cumbria club. Workington, Whitehaven and Barrow could still exist, and each operate in the 'tier 2' league, and the Cumbria franchise could rotate its home games between the three grounds, and even have a shareholding in the Cumbria SL club. They would be feeder clubs to the SL club (perhaps special loan status)

    In the NSW Cup, there are clubs like North Sydney Bears and Western Suburbs Magpies who exist on that level despite both being Premiership winners in years past (WSM have an NRL presence through merging with Balmain Tigers to create, of course, Wests Tigers). This arrangement works (pre-Covid they were averaging c15k a game)

    It'd need a benefactor to be fully competitive, but I reckon a reasonably successful Cumbria club (not a merger of three clubs, two of whom hate each other) could get average crowds of 4-6k, and probably keep promising Cumbrian players there. It'd give a shot in the arm to the amateur game, too.
    I f*cking hate wi*an.

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    The two tens have been shelved till 2024.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    History suggests they wonít be around in five years and previous mistakes when admitting new clubs to the sport do not look to have been acknowledged let alone worked upon. Itís nothing like youíre suggesting, either. Itís actually very much similar to Laner, these new clubs historically donít get the care and attention needed and are thrown into the sea without any aides or help and we wonder why they donít last.

    How many times do we have to have someone, not necessarily you, say ďwell, we donít even know the financesĒ when a new team is admitted before we look at the bigger issue and the complete lack of a strategy for new clubs?
    I don't particulerly disagree with what you are saying. I just think we should at least give them a chance to put foward a plan before jumping all over them.

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    You've got to admire the guy for his perseverance, and people like him should be welcomed into RL wholeheartedly.

    I do think, however, that the choice of Cornwall is a particularly poor one, for many of the reasons cited here; I quite like the scenario painted by Webbo in Cumbria as a viable alternative
    "The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower.
    Might have been written by a footballer about football - but never a truer word............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I don't particulerly disagree with what you are saying. I just think we should at least give them a chance to put foward a plan before jumping all over them.
    There’s a huge difference between putting forward a plan and being shepherded into Rugby League last minute with the season beginning in three months. That’s my issue. We don’t do the first option, we always do the latter and having done it again here, history will, most likely, repeat itself and we’ll make a collective mess of this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    In a franchise system, I'd love to see a Cumbria club. Workington, Whitehaven and Barrow could still exist, and each operate in the 'tier 2' league, and the Cumbria franchise could rotate its home games between the three grounds, and even have a shareholding in the Cumbria SL club. They would be feeder clubs to the SL club (perhaps special loan status)

    In the NSW Cup, there are clubs like North Sydney Bears and Western Suburbs Magpies who exist on that level despite both being Premiership winners in years past (WSM have an NRL presence through merging with Balmain Tigers to create, of course, Wests Tigers). This arrangement works (pre-Covid they were averaging c15k a game)

    It'd need a benefactor to be fully competitive, but I reckon a reasonably successful Cumbria club (not a merger of three clubs, two of whom hate each other) could get average crowds of 4-6k, and probably keep promising Cumbrian players there. It'd give a shot in the arm to the amateur game, too.
    Iíd go with that now, anyway.

    We distribute Swinton (Iíve just plucked their name out of my head as an example) £75,000 a year. Thatís not a large figure and Iím sure itís tough to do much with that amount without the added help of chairmen etc, granted but what return of investment does the sport get for that? Swinton are Swinton in name only, they donít have their own stadium (and have played at multiple different Ďhomeí venues over the last 25 years), play in front of three figure crowds in the gameís second tier, donít have an Academy or visible player pathway but do, it seems, have some form of community programme according to their website. Swinton arenít alone in that, plenty of other clubs are in a similar boat to Swinton and the game hands over six figures annually to these clubs; why? With investment from, say, Wigan in the form of, say, £25,000 annually, Swinton come under the umbrella of Wigan, are part of a pathway programme whether and can work with Wigan on their community side of things. Letís say that 75% of the likely twenty clubs who are possibly going to be ringfenced when/if we go to two tens, the sport ďsavesĒ over £375,000 annually which can be spent elsewhere in areas that desperately need worked on.

    I appreciate the very small number of Swinton fans might feel itís a lose of identity (do they have one now when a generation has never seen Swinton in Swinton) but the bigger picture is these clubs continue to exist in largely the same format they have now and can play at a level that befits them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Iíd go with that now, anyway.

    We distribute Swinton (Iíve just plucked their name out of my head as an example) £75,000 a year. Thatís not a large figure and Iím sure itís tough to do much with that amount without the added help of chairmen etc, granted but what return of investment does the sport get for that? Swinton are Swinton in name only, they donít have their own stadium (and have played at multiple different Ďhomeí venues over the last 25 years), play in front of three figure crowds in the gameís second tier, donít have an Academy or visible player pathway but do, it seems, have some form of community programme according to their website. Swinton arenít alone in that, plenty of other clubs are in a similar boat to Swinton and the game hands over six figures annually to these clubs; why? With investment from, say, Wigan in the form of, say, £25,000 annually, Swinton come under the umbrella of Wigan, are part of a pathway programme whether and can work with Wigan on their community side of things. Letís say that 75% of the likely twenty clubs who are possibly going to be ringfenced when/if we go to two tens, the sport ďsavesĒ over £375,000 annually which can be spent elsewhere in areas that desperately need worked on.

    I appreciate the very small number of Swinton fans might feel itís a lose of identity (do they have one now when a generation has never seen Swinton in Swinton) but the bigger picture is these clubs continue to exist in largely the same format they have now and can play at a level that befits them.
    Is the change to two leagues of ten in 2024 confirmed and definitely going ahead? If so what are the details, does it entail multiple loop fixtures to make enough games?

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