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Thread: No jab for Thompson

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Didn’t his sister once tweet that he was a long time asthma sufferer?? So yes, maybe he was better off getting the vaccine.

    I find it strange how reluctant big governments are in debating the benefits of natural immunity. Maybe because theres little money to be made in ibuprofen and lemsip. I’ve not had any jabs. I will be honest. I think the entire thing has been massively over politicised. I’m not trying to be awkward, (or a martyr as one poster claimed). I just have a bad feeling in my gut about this whole thing and i think as time goes on the facts will eventually point to natural immunity being the best option. As time passes more and more double jabbed will become reinfected and the vaccines will prove to be a complete waste of time and money, but hey i could be wrong.

    Also, having vaccine mandates (for a virus with a 99.97% survival rate) and pushing this on relatively young healthy people is absolute insanity and it saddens me to see how willingly people are to give up their freedoms from fear of tyrannical governments or ridicule from others.

    You wanna get the jab, by all means go for it. Let me die in peace.
    Would you also accept restrictions on your freedoms, I.e. no access to crowded areas etc?

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    it's just an injection it's hardly giving up freedom is it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    They may be, they may be not, im not going to speculate. But, in the last couple of days the MHRA have updated the list of known side effects for the vaccines, both the AZ and Pfizer now have Guillain-Barré syndrome listed as a potential side effect, this would most likely end the career of anyone playing sport for a living. It may be a very rare side effect but some may not see it as worth the risk, given its world leading scientists acknowledging that these side effects can occur.
    I would imagine the list of known side effects of any treatment they may have, of any medication they may take and from any operation, is substantially longer, but would they avoid any of those?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Didn’t his sister once tweet that he was a long time asthma sufferer?? So yes, maybe he was better off getting the vaccine.

    I find it strange how reluctant big governments are in debating the benefits of natural immunity. Maybe because theres little money to be made in ibuprofen and lemsip. I’ve not had any jabs. I will be honest. I think the entire thing has been massively over politicised. I’m not trying to be awkward, (or a martyr as one poster claimed). I just have a bad feeling in my gut about this whole thing and i think as time goes on the facts will eventually point to natural immunity being the best option. As time passes more and more double jabbed will become reinfected and the vaccines will prove to be a complete waste of time and money, but hey i could be wrong.

    Also, having vaccine mandates (for a virus with a 99.97% survival rate) and pushing this on relatively young healthy people is absolute insanity and it saddens me to see how willingly people are to give up their freedoms from fear of tyrannical governments or ridicule from others.

    You wanna get the jab, by all means go for it. Let me die in peace.
    This is where it's all going wrong. People forming opinions about things that they have no expertise in, usually after "researching" confirmation bias articles on the internet.

    Assuming you are not a medical expert or unless you had a pre-conceived idea about it all, why would you trust your own gut feeling over the viewpoints of the many scientists across the world who are advising people not for profit, but for society's benefit? Even if you believe the conspiracy nonsense that suggests that Governments are trying to control you and vaccines are being rolled out for profit, why would you trust your own hunch over the opinions of those who have spent a lifetime working in virology or medicine?

    Vaccines give you natural immunity. That's how they work. Natural immunity will build up in all of us without vaccines, but the point is that it takes time to get to that point. Before such time is reached, thousands or even millions globally will die, and many are needlessly dying now simply because people have not been taking up their option to get a vaccine. The vaccines may be "a waste of time" to many in a few years time. However, at this point in time, absolutely nobody sane could suggest that is the case.

    As for this 99.97% survival rate. Well that's straight out of the anti-vax, Covid-denier manual. The statistics clearly show that this is not the case. Even if every single person in this country had had Covid already, your statistic suggests that only 20,000 people have died from Covid. The chances are that it could be 99%, of course. However, that isn't a flat 99% across the board. It might have a 0.03% rate of death for healthy people in their 20s, but that moves to 10% of unvaccinated people in their 80s, but perhaps just 1% of vaccinated people of that age, and that in itself shows you what the right thing to do is.

    I'm sure we are all aware that no vaccine offers a 100% guarantee but all any of us can ever do is maximise and minimise chances, and whilst a vaccine is mainly to help yourself, there is still more than enough evidence to suggest that vaccines help reduce the load of spread. So whilst you may be happy to die in peace, other people around you who you have subjected to a heavy viral load, may not be.

    It isn't all about you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    This is where it's all going wrong. People forming opinions about things that they have no expertise in, usually after "researching" confirmation bias articles on the internet.

    Assuming you are not a medical expert or unless you had a pre-conceived idea about it all, why would you trust your own gut feeling over the viewpoints of the many scientists across the world who are advising people not for profit, but for society's benefit? Even if you believe the conspiracy nonsense that suggests that Governments are trying to control you and vaccines are being rolled out for profit, why would you trust your own hunch over the opinions of those who have spent a lifetime working in virology or medicine?

    Vaccines give you natural immunity. That's how they work. Natural immunity will build up in all of us without vaccines, but the point is that it takes time to get to that point. Before such time is reached, thousands or even millions globally will die, and many are needlessly dying now simply because people have not taking up their option to get a vaccine. The vaccines may be "a waste of time" to many in a few years time. However, at this point in time, absolutely nobody sane could suggest that is the case.

    As for this 99.97% survival rate. Well that's straight out of the anti-vax, Covid-denier manual. The statistics clearly show that this is not the case. Even if every single person in this country had had Covid already, your statistic suggests that only 20,000 people have died from Covid. The chances are that it could be 99%, of course. However, that isn't a flat 99% across the board. It might have a 0.03% rate of death for healthy people in their 20s, but that moves to 10% of unvaccinated people in their 80s, but perhaps just 10% of vaccinated people, and that in itself shows you what the right thing to do is.

    I'm sure we are all aware that no vaccine offers a 100% guarantee but all any of us can ever do is maximise and minimise chances, and whilst a vaccine is mainly to help yourself, there is still more than enough evidence to suggest that vaccines help reduce the load of spread. So whilst you may be happy to die in peace, other people around you who you have subjected to a heavy viral load, may not be.

    It isn't all about you.


    Spot on & great post.

    I wonder if those opposing taking this Covid vaccine are alright with other vaccines? If they trod on a rusty nail would they have a tetanus jab? Got bit by a dog with rabies, would they have the rabies jab?

    There's also been thousands of people in the US refusing to be vaccinated, yet swallowing courses of horse worming tablets because some quack claimed it would prevent Covid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    I would imagine the list of known side effects of any treatment they may have, of any medication they may take and from any operation, is substantially longer, but would they avoid any of those?
    Most of those treatments have side effects that have been known for a considerable period of time, whereas the Covid vaccine had a new side effect listed less than 2 weeks ago and given that it is still going through trials for long term effects some may see it as a risk to have the vaccine. Fwiw i was hesitant to have the vaccine, but i weighed up the positives and negatives and had it, but i can understand why some people are rather hesitant to have it, especially when new side effects are coming out and other side effects, such as blood clots and myocarditis, which came to light when the mass vaccination program was underway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Didn’t his sister once tweet that he was a long time asthma sufferer?? So yes, maybe he was better off getting the vaccine.

    I find it strange how reluctant big governments are in debating the benefits of natural immunity. Maybe because theres little money to be made in ibuprofen and lemsip. I’ve not had any jabs. I will be honest. I think the entire thing has been massively over politicised. I’m not trying to be awkward, (or a martyr as one poster claimed). I just have a bad feeling in my gut about this whole thing and i think as time goes on the facts will eventually point to natural immunity being the best option. As time passes more and more double jabbed will become reinfected and the vaccines will prove to be a complete waste of time and money, but hey i could be wrong.

    Also, having vaccine mandates (for a virus with a 99.97% survival rate) and pushing this on relatively young healthy people is absolute insanity and it saddens me to see how willingly people are to give up their freedoms from fear of tyrannical governments or ridicule from others.

    You wanna get the jab, by all means go for it. Let me die in peace.
    But the problem is that you probably wouldn’t “die in peace” and the hospital bed that you are forced to take up will prevent someone getting treatment for a less avoidable issue.

    As far as the efficacy of the vaccination is concerned, I contracted Covid in April ‘20 and felt the effects for a few weeks but survived without medication; I was double-jabbed by May this year. A few weeks ago, my 97 year old, double-jabbed mother contracted the disease but survived with only mild-flu symptoms. I visited her a day or so before she showed any symptoms, had a PCR test as soon as I heard she was ill and was found to be negative. Her survival and my avoiding illness may have had nothing to do with immunisation but science suggests otherwise so on the basis of my experience I must admit I do find it difficult to understand why people refuse vaccination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Most of those treatments have side effects that have been known for a considerable period of time, whereas the Covid vaccine had a new side effect listed less than 2 weeks ago and given that it is still going through trials for long term effects some may see it as a risk to have the vaccine. Fwiw i was hesitant to have the vaccine, but i weighed up the positives and negatives and had it, but i can understand why some people are rather hesitant to have it, especially when new side effects are coming out and other side effects, such as blood clots and myocarditis, which came to light when the mass vaccination program was underway.
    The last time I looked at this (in a changing situation) the impact of long Covid is now, and is likely to continue to be, greater than the impact of side effects from any of the vaccines.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Most of those treatments have side effects that have been known for a considerable period of time, whereas the Covid vaccine had a new side effect listed less than 2 weeks ago and given that it is still going through trials for long term effects some may see it as a risk to have the vaccine. Fwiw i was hesitant to have the vaccine, but i weighed up the positives and negatives and had it, but i can understand why some people are rather hesitant to have it, especially when new side effects are coming out and other side effects, such as blood clots and myocarditis, which came to light when the mass vaccination program was underway.
    All vaccines and medicines have possible side-effects. However, these are always rare. The real crazy thing is that people who are so cock-sure that they will not be affected adversely by Covid are the same people who claim to be running scared of a side effect that all sense and sensibility suggests would be massively less likely to effect them.

    The reason a new side-effect has been listed isn't because of the length of time that the side-effect has taken to materialise, but because the age group that has manifested the myocarditis side-effect (circa 1 in 12,000) has only recently started to receive the vaccines.

    This isn't the 1950s and Thalidomide. Medicine and virology has come a long way and all a vaccine does is to infect you with less harmful versions of the virus itself. Most anti-viral vaccines are made in a similar way to previous ones, so it really is nonsense for people to believe that one is likely to start mass producing serious side-effects years down the line, when all scientific knowledge knows that any side effects that do materialise, do so pretty quickly. The vaccine isn't a medicine with bizarre concoctions whose long term effects are unknown.
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    The reality is that 86% of ICU beds in Australia are occupied by unvaccinated people compared to 2% occupied by fully vaccinated people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    This is where it's all going wrong. People forming opinions about things that they have no expertise in, usually after "researching" confirmation bias articles on the internet.

    Assuming you are not a medical expert or unless you had a pre-conceived idea about it all, why would you trust your own gut feeling over the viewpoints of the many scientists across the world who are advising people not for profit, but for society's benefit? Even if you believe the conspiracy nonsense that suggests that Governments are trying to control you and vaccines are being rolled out for profit, why would you trust your own hunch over the opinions of those who have spent a lifetime working in virology or medicine?

    Vaccines give you natural immunity. That's how they work. Natural immunity will build up in all of us without vaccines, but the point is that it takes time to get to that point. Before such time is reached, thousands or even millions globally will die, and many are needlessly dying now simply because people have not been taking up their option to get a vaccine. The vaccines may be "a waste of time" to many in a few years time. However, at this point in time, absolutely nobody sane could suggest that is the case.

    As for this 99.97% survival rate. Well that's straight out of the anti-vax, Covid-denier manual. The statistics clearly show that this is not the case. Even if every single person in this country had had Covid already, your statistic suggests that only 20,000 people have died from Covid. The chances are that it could be 99%, of course. However, that isn't a flat 99% across the board. It might have a 0.03% rate of death for healthy people in their 20s, but that moves to 10% of unvaccinated people in their 80s, but perhaps just 1% of vaccinated people of that age, and that in itself shows you what the right thing to do is.

    I'm sure we are all aware that no vaccine offers a 100% guarantee but all any of us can ever do is maximise and minimise chances, and whilst a vaccine is mainly to help yourself, there is still more than enough evidence to suggest that vaccines help reduce the load of spread. So whilst you may be happy to die in peace, other people around you who you have subjected to a heavy viral load, may not be.

    It isn't all about you.
    Spot on, couldn't summarise it better.

    One of my best mates has been working on COVID19 since early last year and I wouldnt pretend to understand what on earth it is that he does. However, he's double jabbed and if there was any conspiracy he would have the inside knowledge on the science behind it all.

    It also baffles me why people pull the (often misquoted) death rate out as an example not to be vaccinated. Even the best case scenario death rate is significantly higher than the rate of side effects which is apparently a reason to not be vaccinated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    This is where it's all going wrong. People forming opinions about things that they have no expertise in, usually after "researching" confirmation bias articles on the internet.

    Assuming you are not a medical expert or unless you had a pre-conceived idea about it all, why would you trust your own gut feeling over the viewpoints of the many scientists across the world who are advising people not for profit, but for society's benefit? Even if you believe the conspiracy nonsense that suggests that Governments are trying to control you and vaccines are being rolled out for profit, why would you trust your own hunch over the opinions of those who have spent a lifetime working in virology or medicine?

    Vaccines give you natural immunity. That's how they work. Natural immunity will build up in all of us without vaccines, but the point is that it takes time to get to that point. Before such time is reached, thousands or even millions globally will die, and many are needlessly dying now simply because people have not been taking up their option to get a vaccine. The vaccines may be "a waste of time" to many in a few years time. However, at this point in time, absolutely nobody sane could suggest that is the case.

    As for this 99.97% survival rate. Well that's straight out of the anti-vax, Covid-denier manual. The statistics clearly show that this is not the case. Even if every single person in this country had had Covid already, your statistic suggests that only 20,000 people have died from Covid. The chances are that it could be 99%, of course. However, that isn't a flat 99% across the board. It might have a 0.03% rate of death for healthy people in their 20s, but that moves to 10% of unvaccinated people in their 80s, but perhaps just 1% of vaccinated people of that age, and that in itself shows you what the right thing to do is.

    I'm sure we are all aware that no vaccine offers a 100% guarantee but all any of us can ever do is maximise and minimise chances, and whilst a vaccine is mainly to help yourself, there is still more than enough evidence to suggest that vaccines help reduce the load of spread. So whilst you may be happy to die in peace, other people around you who you have subjected to a heavy viral load, may not be.

    It isn't all about you.
    Well put.
    I was living in Spain last year where we had an astonomical death rate. Even now that most people are vaccinated there is still a 15% death rate from the start of the pandemic. You say that in time, the number of deaths coud be in the millions; Ivé just looked at the WHO website and we are already at 5m. I'm getting my third jab on Friday. I know it's a matter of personal choice, but I find it hard to understand how anyone with half a brain thinks we would be better off without a vaccine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I find it hard to understand how anyone with half a brain thinks we would be better off without a vaccine.
    You've answered your own question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    You've answered your own question.
    I think it’s time people stopped pandering to the ‘oh it’s people’s choice’ etc when really it means some people are incredibly stupid.

    It time the rest of us started to call these people exactly what they are stupid

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    Aaaah well thats me out then. One less idiot on the forum so that can only be a good thing eh. Ta ta
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

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    Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    This is where it's all going wrong. People forming opinions about things that they have no expertise in, usually after "researching" confirmation bias articles on the internet.

    Assuming you are not a medical expert or unless you had a pre-conceived idea about it all, why would you trust your own gut feeling over the viewpoints of the many scientists across the world who are advising people not for profit, but for society's benefit? Even if you believe the conspiracy nonsense that suggests that Governments are trying to control you and vaccines are being rolled out for profit, why would you trust your own hunch over the opinions of those who have spent a lifetime working in virology or medicine?

    Vaccines give you natural immunity. That's how they work. Natural immunity will build up in all of us without vaccines, but the point is that it takes time to get to that point. Before such time is reached, thousands or even millions globally will die, and many are needlessly dying now simply because people have not been taking up their option to get a vaccine. The vaccines may be "a waste of time" to many in a few years time. However, at this point in time, absolutely nobody sane could suggest that is the case.

    As for this 99.97% survival rate. Well that's straight out of the anti-vax, Covid-denier manual. The statistics clearly show that this is not the case. Even if every single person in this country had had Covid already, your statistic suggests that only 20,000 people have died from Covid. The chances are that it could be 99%, of course. However, that isn't a flat 99% across the board. It might have a 0.03% rate of death for healthy people in their 20s, but that moves to 10% of unvaccinated people in their 80s, but perhaps just 1% of vaccinated people of that age, and that in itself shows you what the right thing to do is.

    I'm sure we are all aware that no vaccine offers a 100% guarantee but all any of us can ever do is maximise and minimise chances, and whilst a vaccine is mainly to help yourself, there is still more than enough evidence to suggest that vaccines help reduce the load of spread. So whilst you may be happy to die in peace, other people around you who you have subjected to a heavy viral load, may not be.

    It isn't all about you.
    Don't talk sense Dave, you'll be presented with 4 brown envelopes and told how the Pope is in control of ALL the businesses in the entire world, and you're part of the problem.


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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Aaaah well thats me out then. One less idiot on the forum so that can only be a good thing eh. Ta ta
    Or you could stay and see opinions that differ from yours, you may learn something new, something that is perhaps outside your sphere of knowledge.

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    I agree with DD’s post. For my own part, I’ve no science background and prefer my GP’s advice to what I might find on the internet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Or you could stay and see opinions that differ from yours, you may learn something new, something that is perhaps outside your sphere of knowledge.
    That's quite a good point, the only thing is how do you as an individual know what is "perhaps outside your sphere of knowledge" regarding other posters? Or is that not "perhaps outside your sphere of knowledge"? This debate got quite heated on another thread, so I wont be commenting further. Suffice it to say that to judge the opinions of others by suggesting that they are talking about something that is "perhaps outside their sphere of knowledge" without knowing much about said individuals (other than they disagree with you) is pretty arrogant. As for staying and seeing differing opinions than your own, "pot and kettle" springs to mind. Enjoy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealHarryPinner View Post
    The reality is that 86% of ICU beds in Australia are occupied by unvaccinated people compared to 2% occupied by fully vaccinated people.
    Here is the issue imo.
    This post written as fact is completely untrue and (no offence meant TRHP) highlights problem with this vaccine as opposed to those like MMR, TB etc of the past.

    There are currently 278 people in Australia in ICU with covid. Yes 88% of those are unvaccinated but the numbers make a significant difference to the story and are removed deliberately to scare people.

    The way people get information these days is so twisted by their preferred media sources it is almost impossible to get a balance of information to make an informed decision.

    I've had the vaccine but I completely support a person's right not to do so. I took a long time to decide to have it and tried to get as much information as I could before deciding. Sadly it's harder these days to find real information and I hope those deciding against it make that choice based on facts not scare stories.




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    Last edited by Buddy; 25th October 2021 at 20:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    That's quite a good point, the only thing is how do you as an individual know what is "perhaps outside your sphere of knowledge" regarding other posters? Or is that not "perhaps outside your sphere of knowledge"? This debate got quite heated on another thread, so I wont be commenting further. Suffice it to say that to judge the opinions of others by suggesting that they are talking about something that is "perhaps outside their sphere of knowledge" without knowing much about said individuals (other than they disagree with you) is pretty arrogant. As for staying and seeing differing opinions than your own, "pot and kettle" springs to mind. Enjoy.
    I would suggest that most intelligent people would know the limits of their knowledge and if required seek expert opinions to make decisions in that area. If you don’t know where your knowledge stops then it is pretty arrogant to assume knowledge of all areas.

    So in the area of epidemiology I will take the advice from the majority experts (I don’t think there are any against vaccines) since I know I don’t have the right level of knowledge to make my own decision on this.

    Conversely if I thought I knew better than the qualified experts and then ignored their health advice then yes that is pretty arrogant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    I would suggest that most intelligent people would know the limits of their knowledge and if required seek expert opinions to make decisions in that area. If you don’t know where your knowledge stops then it is pretty arrogant to assume knowledge of all areas.

    So in the area of epidemiology I will take the advice from the majority experts (I don’t think there are any against vaccines) since I know I don’t have the right level of knowledge to make my own decision on this.

    Conversely if I thought I knew better than the qualified experts and then ignored their health advice then yes that is pretty arrogant.
    And that completely nails it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Aaaah well thats me out then. One less idiot on the forum so that can only be a good thing eh. Ta ta
    Big soft get, see ya later watch you don’t trip up over all the toys you have chucked on your way out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickles Forearm View Post
    Big soft get, see ya later watch you don’t trip up over all the toys you have chucked on your way out.
    Grow up

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