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Thread: No jab for Thompson

  1. #151
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallaght Tiger View Post
    I am very confused DD, "it is quite clear that much of the data & the vaccination does not stop the spread in everybody but some people", they are vague statements prefixed by a certainty. Yesterday a lady professor from the Mater hospital Dublin stated that the vaccination does not stop the spread of the virus and called for restrictions to be put in place again, a statement released from the WHO on Friday said the same thing, obviously I have my own agenda and am interpreting it incorrectly.
    Yesterday over here 100 plus people were in ICU of which 67% are fully vaccinated 80% with booster, last week the country had its highest numbers of cases since April2020, this is with a vaccinated population of nearly 92% total.
    On a personal level, today it was announced I cannot go to a boxing tournament my vaccinated 12 year old grandson is competing in (first time at junior level) that I booked tickets to last week, only 2 people from the competing boxers family can attend, it is an indoor stadium with a maximum capacity of 2100 that now will allow less than 300 people to enter. Our grand children have had the temerity to have birthdays during the height of restrictions meaning we cannot physically visit them on these days as we live 6km away and you could not exceed 5km. This is not living, we have followed the protocols set out, as the majority of people have yet we are still in this situation despite the vaccines being touted as the great panacea. Yes isolation and restrictions will lower cases and help the straining Health Services but this is not a viable solution as has been shown with the previous two lockdowns.
    The smoking analogy was BB`s from a previous post and my statement to it still stands I am free to smoke if I wish (I don`t), where a person smokes has nothing to do with it.
    However I am not free to attend an indoor event neither can my wife get back the hugs and kisses she wished to give our grandkids on their birthdays. Once again we are fully vaccinated and have followed to the letter the restrictions as have the majority over here, why then are we being discriminated against.
    It seems that you are having trouble interpreting statements and data correctly.

    It is correct to say that the vaccine doesn’t stop the spread in a country-wide or global sense. However, there is also enough data to suggest that the virus often gets stopped in its tracks at a vaccinated person. If there are 10 people vaccinated, 6 or 7 of those will not spread the vaccine should they be infected themselves. There is no guarantee that it stops the spread from a given person, but it reduces the likelihood of that person spreading it.

    As for the 63% of (say) 100 people in ICU being unvaccinated (as per the corrected figure pointed out by BB ) , as 82% (it’s not 92%) of the country are fully vaccinated out of a population of 26 million, then the numbers are 63 from 4.7 million and 37 from 21.3 million. That means that without a vaccination, you are 7.7 times more likely to end up in ICU.

    Your smoking statement does not still stand. You are not allowed to do so in certain places and haven’t been able to do so for years. If it is in a public place where it is deemed to put the health of other people at risk, your right to partake in such an activity is stripped away from you.

    In terms of the rest of it, well I don’t agree with restrictions for the fully vaccinated now. We must move on. Australia has taken a different approach to us and one that I believe is wrong. If you insist on pursuing the Zero Covid dream, then as a country you are going to be running away from it for years, because whilst we here will have a double-protection mechanism of vaccine and exposure across our population, Australia will not have had the exposure. Our unvaccinated population will develop antibodies because the majority of them will get Covid at some point, you would imagine. In Australia, that will not be the case. Zero Covid looks good on paper, because it saves many lives in the immediate, but it also means that there will never be an end in sight as long as so many are refusing to be vaccinated. In reality, these people are prolonging it for everyone.
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  2. #152
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk paulscnthorpe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    It seems that you are having trouble interpreting statements and data correctly.

    It is correct to say that the vaccine doesnít stop the spread in a country-wide or global sense. However, there is also enough data to suggest that the virus often gets stopped in its tracks at a vaccinated person. If there are 10 people vaccinated, 6 or 7 of those will not spread the vaccine should they be infected themselves. There is no guarantee that it stops the spread from a given person, but it reduces the likelihood of that person spreading it.

    As for the 63% of (say) 100 people in ICU being unvaccinated (as per the corrected figure pointed out by BB ) , as 82% (itís not 92%) of the country are fully vaccinated out of a population of 26 million, then the numbers are 63 from 4.7 million and 37 from 21.3 million. That means that without a vaccination, you are 7.7 times more likely to end up in ICU.

    Your smoking statement does not still stand. You are not allowed to do so in certain places and havenít been able to do so for years. If it is in a public place where it is deemed to put the health of other people at risk, your right to partake in such an activity is stripped away from you.

    In terms of the rest of it, well I donít agree with restrictions for the fully vaccinated now. We must move on. Australia has taken a different approach to us and one that I believe is wrong. If you insist on pursuing the Zero Covid dream, then as a country you are going to be running away from it for years, because whilst we here will have a double-protection mechanism of vaccine and exposure across our population, Australia will not have had the exposure. Our unvaccinated population will develop antibodies because the majority of them will get Covid at some point, you would imagine. In Australia, that will not be the case. Zero Covid looks good on paper, because it saves many lives in the immediate, but it also means that there will never be an end in sight as long as so many are refusing to be vaccinated. In reality, these people are prolonging it for everyone.
    Good points Dave - Australia has given up on Zero Covid, and it looks like New Zealand may follow suit shortly.

    Hopefully (and it looks likely) the UK is going to press on with no further restrictions. We were so badly hit until the spring this year, selling the vaccine was easy, Australia has struggled because Covid wasn't seen as an issue for many

  3. #153
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    So many armchair scientists in this thread. Reminds me of this...

    Study 3 years for a degree.
    Study 3 more for PhD
    Join lab, start working
    Spend years studying problem.
    Form hypothesis, gather evidence.
    Test hypothesis, form conclusions.
    Report findings, clear peer review.
    Findings published, reported in press
    Random bloke on an internet forum - "Bullshit"

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euroboy View Post
    So many armchair scientists in this thread. Reminds me of this...

    Study 3 years for a degree.
    Study 3 more for PhD
    Join lab, start working
    Spend years studying problem.
    Form hypothesis, gather evidence.
    Test hypothesis, form conclusions.
    Report findings, clear peer review.
    Findings published, reported in press
    Random bloke on an internet forum - "Bullshit"

    "People in this country have had enough of experts"

    (Michael 'malevolent turd' Gove, June 2016)
    I f*cking hate wi*an.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euroboy View Post
    So many armchair scientists in this thread. Reminds me of this...

    Study 3 years for a degree.
    Study 3 more for PhD
    Join lab, start working
    Spend years studying problem.
    Form hypothesis, gather evidence.
    Test hypothesis, form conclusions.
    Report findings, clear peer review.
    Findings published, reported in press

    Findings completely different to similar study done by another scientist following the identical path above.
    Edited that for you.
    I understand where you're coming from, but like most things in life, it's not just black or white.

  6. #156
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    It seems that you are having trouble interpreting statements and data correctly.

    It is correct to say that the vaccine doesn’t stop the spread in a country-wide or global sense. However, there is also enough data to suggest that the virus often gets stopped in its tracks at a vaccinated person. If there are 10 people vaccinated, 6 or 7 of those will not spread the vaccine should they be infected themselves. There is no guarantee that it stops the spread from a given person, but it reduces the likelihood of that person spreading it.

    As for the 63% of (say) 100 people in ICU being unvaccinated (as per the corrected figure pointed out by BB ) , as 82% (it’s not 92%) of the country are fully vaccinated out of a population of 26 million, then the numbers are 63 from 4.7 million and 37 from 21.3 million. That means that without a vaccination, you are 7.7 times more likely to end up in ICU.

    Your smoking statement does not still stand. You are not allowed to do so in certain places and haven’t been able to do so for years. If it is in a public place where it is deemed to put the health of other people at risk, your right to partake in such an activity is stripped away from you.

    In terms of the rest of it, well I don’t agree with restrictions for the fully vaccinated now. We must move on. Australia has taken a different approach to us and one that I believe is wrong. If you insist on pursuing the Zero Covid dream, then as a country you are going to be running away from it for years, because whilst we here will have a double-protection mechanism of vaccine and exposure across our population, Australia will not have had the exposure. Our unvaccinated population will develop antibodies because the majority of them will get Covid at some point, you would imagine. In Australia, that will not be the case. Zero Covid looks good on paper, because it saves many lives in the immediate, but it also means that there will never be an end in sight as long as so many are refusing to be vaccinated. In reality, these people are prolonging it for everyone.
    Some good points here.

  7. #157
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    SPOILER ALERT!




    I did wonder where all this nonsense about nanobots and Bill Gates came from.


    Then I watched the new Bond this weekend, what is is about the word FICTION that confuses people

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    Quote Originally Posted by Euroboy View Post
    So many armchair scientists in this thread. Reminds me of this...

    Study 3 years for a degree.
    Study 3 more for PhD
    Join lab, start working
    Spend years studying problem.
    Form hypothesis, gather evidence.
    Test hypothesis, form conclusions.
    Report findings, clear peer review.
    Findings published, reported in press
    Random bloke on an internet forum - "Bullshit"
    Yep, that’s how it’s done. Nothing to do with wishful thinking or the power of astrology or belief in conspiracy theories. Your post is a breath of fresh air

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    SPOILER ALERT!




    I did wonder where all this nonsense about nanobots and Bill Gates came from.


    Then I watched the new Bond this weekend, what is is about the word FICTION that confuses people
    Any good? The Bond film that is.

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    In The South Stand Tabasco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    Any good? The Bond film that is.
    As someone who was never a Bond fan until Daniel Craig stepped into the role, and who still prefers Bourne films over the recent 007 output, I found the 2 hrs 43 mins passed reasonably quickly so it canít have been bad. Plenty of action in cars as youíd expect and little twists throughout. Your reaction to it might be dependent on how avid a fan you are of the Bond genre.
    Last edited by Tabasco; 23rd November 2021 at 16:58.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    As someone who was never a Bond fan until Daniel Craig stepped into the role, and who still prefers Bourne films over the recent 007 output, I found the 2 hrs 43 mins passed reasonably quickly so it canít have been bad. Plenty of action in cars as youíd expect and little twists throughout. Your reaction to it might be dependent on how avid a fan you are of the Bond genre.
    Iím not the biggest film fan but Iíve always enjoyed Bond. Casino Royale is my favourite so far but I did like the first three with Sean Connery. Iíll have to give it a go now that my booster is 14 days in. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    It seems that you are having trouble interpreting statements and data correctly.

    It is correct to say that the vaccine doesn¬’t stop the spread in a country-wide or global sense. However, there is also enough data to suggest that the virus often gets stopped in its tracks at a vaccinated person. If there are 10 people vaccinated, 6 or 7 of those will not spread the vaccine should they be infected themselves. There is no guarantee that it stops the spread from a given person, but it reduces the likelihood of that person spreading it.

    As for the 63% of (say) 100 people in ICU being unvaccinated (as per the corrected figure pointed out by BB ) , as 82% (it¬’s not 92%) of the country are fully vaccinated out of a population of 26 million, then the numbers are 63 from 4.7 million and 37 from 21.3 million. That means that without a vaccination, you are 7.7 times more likely to end up in ICU.

    Your smoking statement does not still stand. You are not allowed to do so in certain places and haven¬’t been able to do so for years. If it is in a public place where it is deemed to put the health of other people at risk, your right to partake in such an activity is stripped away from you.

    In terms of the rest of it, well I don¬’t agree with restrictions for the fully vaccinated now. We must move on. Australia has taken a different approach to us and one that I believe is wrong. If you insist on pursuing the Zero Covid dream, then as a country you are going to be running away from it for years, because whilst we here will have a double-protection mechanism of vaccine and exposure across our population, Australia will not have had the exposure. Our unvaccinated population will develop antibodies because the majority of them will get Covid at some point, you would imagine. In Australia, that will not be the case. Zero Covid looks good on paper, because it saves many lives in the immediate, but it also means that there will never be an end in sight as long as so many are refusing to be vaccinated. In reality, these people are prolonging it for everyone.
    DD, I am struggling to interpret any information on this virus as the reporting seems contradictory.
    The figure of 67% was correct on the posting date as the BB figure was from 6-11, we have the health minister making twice weekly statements on the national radio station on the situation and these figures are from that. The country was also 92% vaccinated (some counties as high as 96%) for the population who could avail of the vaccine, children 12 and under were given the okay to be vaccinated only last week, another contradiction as children did not carry the virus only a few months previously. Another statement last week was 98% of all hospitalized covid patients have underlying conditions, why these people are not all vaccinated in the first place is ludicrous but maybe that is for another day.
    I don`t know about Australia but it is not a transient country so not many people are passing through to visit elsewhere, but here in Ireland the Americans call here first before continuing to UK or Europe, so maybe they can attempt zero covid.
    Night clubs were allowed to re-open 22-10 after 22 months being the hardest hit with restrictions, they were effectively shut down again two weeks ago as all indoor premises had to close by midnight as this restriction was reintroduced then, they close officially again tomorrow.
    We have endured the most restrictions and lockdowns of any country yet yesterday and today it was 5000 cases reported in a country with 5 million people of which 94% of adults are vaccinated, the last three weeks average around 3000 per day, as high as anytime pre vaccination.
    As for the cigarette analogy BB gave, I can tell you that I can meet our children and grand children outside in a public place as long as we do not encroach 2 metres, I can hold a fag and smoke (I don`t) yet I cannot tussle my grand children`s hair or plant a goozer on their cheeks, my lips can however cradle a cigarette, my smoking statement stands in the world I am living DD.
    I suspect our views do not differ too much DD but this is not the new normal as we are being told, it is abnormal.
    To keep the film theme going that this thread has evolved every day is Groundhog Day, the very definition of insanity keep doing the same things and keep getting the same results.
    Last edited by Tallaght Tiger; 6th December 2021 at 18:24.

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    Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired
    Medicine cannot expel a disease that was never contracted by the use of medicine, is the quote often used against Swift`s

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    SoÖ avoiding the world coming to an abrupt end itís now only 65 days until the start of the new season for the Challenge Cup holders and three time back to back to back champions. COYS

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    Canterbury have sacked John Asiata for refusing the vaccine.
    I wonder if they would be so forceful if it was one of their big signings for this year?



    Sent from my SM-F711B using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy View Post
    Canterbury have sacked John Asiata for refusing the vaccine.

    Good

    Awkward prick.


    I'm also sick of barely half the people in supermarkets wearing masks, too - and shop security just shrugging. What these selfish/awkward/entitled gobshites do often wear, though, is an expression that says 'Go on, then, challenge me'.

    There's too many idiots in this world.
    I f*cking hate wi*an.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Good

    Awkward prick.


    I'm also sick of barely half the people in supermarkets wearing masks, too - and shop security just shrugging. What these selfish/awkward/entitled gobshites do often wear, though, is an expression that says 'Go on, then, challenge me'.

    There's too many idiots in this world.
    There is, but I can sympathise with people on covid. It's just an obsession now. The entire country is being run by the media who will focus on nothing else but covid. People have been put through two years of restrictions and it's not done a single thing. Masks make very little difference. Whilst I sympathise with those who have lost loved ones to covid, all the restrictions have done is delay it, those who are going to die from it are going to die from it. All we're doing is giving something else the chance to be the cause of death. The countries who have kept their mask mandates are the worst affected at the moment, it hasn't had an impact. The ones we're walking round with aren't filtered and if someone has covid it's still going to be passed into the room or area you're in. Even if the masks block the virus particles, the person then touches them multiple times putting it on and taking it off and catches it anyway.

    The Government is being bullied into bringing back restrictions by the media, so we're now going to have Plan B. No doubt covid certification passports and working from home. Another hammer blow for the economy and the entertainment industry. There will be no cinemas, far fewer restaurants, bars and pubs about and a few million more plunged into poverty that they won't escape from. Future generations consigned to poverty with very little chance of escaping it.

    But hey, we've got to worship the almighty covid. We're doing all this for a variant that has killed a total of 0 people worldwide. Save the NHS the scientists cry? One today suggesting that although very few people might die of Omicron, there might be 3,000 hositalisations a day which would collapse the NHS. Perhaps the NHS would be in a better place if it sorted itself out and they transferred the obscene amounts we're spending on the pointless exercise of tracking and tracing covid into the NHS budget. Train more nurses, employ more, open more capacity. If the space isn't needed, have them doing other tasks and try to reduce the horrendous backlogs they have created for themselves by having a year off and shutting down the NHS to prioritise covid.

    Meanwhile the restrictions will allow the Doctors to go back on sabbatical and the 700,000 undiagnosed cancers will be topped up to a million. Those ill with other conditions can wait or die too, they're not important enough to be treated.

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    It's a scrap of cloth over your nose and mouth for 10-20 minutes.

    Nobody's asking them to wear a wi*an top or something.

    And no, it doesn't stop transmission, but masks reduce the amount of Covid aerosols that are expelled from an infected person (and those that do get through the mask do so at much lower velocity, thus reducing the range). It's fact that the severity of the infection and symptoms is generally greater for those subjected to a larger 'viral load'. It also does block 'some' inhalation of Covid aerosols, again likely reducing the severity of the infection if you do contract it.

    I take your point about non-Covid disease/condition treatments and agree. But if there are more Covid cases in hospital (filling ICU wards), then that reduces the capacity to treat non-Covid patients even further.

    Just small measures like wearing masks inside public places, having the vaccination, keeping your hands regularly cleaned, working from home if possible - they all play varying roles to reduce the rate of infection spread.

    If the above small steps (that are barely an inconvenience) are taken, then it reduces the risk of having to take harsher measures (that cripple the hospitality industry).

    Yet some selfish/awkward/entitled pricks refuse to do even the barest minimum to help society.
    I f*cking hate wi*an.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    It's a scrap of cloth over your nose and mouth for 10-20 minutes.

    Nobody's asking them to wear a wi*an top or something.

    And no, it doesn't stop transmission, but masks reduce the amount of Covid aerosols that are expelled from an infected person (and those that do get through the mask do so at much lower velocity, thus reducing the range). It's fact that the severity of the infection and symptoms is generally greater for those subjected to a larger 'viral load'. It also does block 'some' inhalation of Covid aerosols, again likely reducing the severity of the infection if you do contract it.

    I take your point about non-Covid disease/condition treatments and agree. But if there are more Covid cases in hospital (filling ICU wards), then that reduces the capacity to treat non-Covid patients even further.

    Just small measures like wearing masks inside public places, having the vaccination, keeping your hands regularly cleaned, working from home if possible - they all play varying roles to reduce the rate of infection spread.

    If the above small steps (that are barely an inconvenience) are taken, then it reduces the risk of having to take harsher measures (that cripple the hospitality industry).

    Yet some selfish/awkward/entitled pricks refuse to do even the barest minimum to help society.
    I'm doing all those things. They've got to shift focus though. The cycle of bringing in restrictions that cause far more damage than they solve every time there is a new variant or a spike in cases can't continue. It could go on for 5, 10, 15 years if they let it. It shouldn't be about getting cases in a specific range, really they shouldn't be testing outside of hospital settings at all. Divert the obscene amounts they are spending on track and trace and testing and put it something more useful. And they've got to get the media to focus on something else. The mental health impact of two years of constant and deliberate scare mongering by the press has left us in this position where most are at best apathetic to it all now. The BBC has run a Covid live ticker for two years now and are still repeating the same claims about oblivion. Another lockdown could be a real tipping point for suicides as well, I know more than a few who are terrified of that happening again.

    The entire world has got to get thinking about how they live, work and do the things we enjoy doing without crippling the health service or the economy. Both need to be strong or the future becomes a very dark place. Covid isn't going anywhere and we're diverting far too much resource at one (Relatively minor) illness and creating far, far greater problems in doing so. In 30 years time they will teach about the covid pandemic and how poor the response was from the world. They will quote ratios of how many the restrictions killed vs. how many covid kills and question the sanity of our leaders and us as people for allowing it. Some cultures can get on top of covid temporarily, but it will always come back. China will remove the infected from society, some won't come back, but nothing is said as it's China. Hong Kong hospitalises every confirmed case whether symptomatic or not and detains them until they are negative. We clearly can't do that here as it wouldn't wash culturally or in terms of resources. There's a good chance we'll still be talking about winter lockdowns and the benefits of masks in 2030 at this rate, as well as discussing why Warrington didn't win the league again and whether fans will be allowed back into stadiums again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    It's a scrap of cloth over your nose and mouth for 10-20 minutes.

    Nobody's asking them to wear a wi*an top or something.

    And no, it doesn't stop transmission, but masks reduce the amount of Covid aerosols that are expelled from an infected person (and those that do get through the mask do so at much lower velocity, thus reducing the range). It's fact that the severity of the infection and symptoms is generally greater for those subjected to a larger 'viral load'. It also does block 'some' inhalation of Covid aerosols, again likely reducing the severity of the infection if you do contract it.

    I take your point about non-Covid disease/condition treatments and agree. But if there are more Covid cases in hospital (filling ICU wards), then that reduces the capacity to treat non-Covid patients even further.

    Just small measures like wearing masks inside public places, having the vaccination, keeping your hands regularly cleaned, working from home if possible - they all play varying roles to reduce the rate of infection spread.

    If the above small steps (that are barely an inconvenience) are taken, then it reduces the risk of having to take harsher measures (that cripple the hospitality industry).

    Yet some selfish/awkward/entitled pricks refuse to do even the barest minimum to help society.
    Agree entirely, especially the last sentence. We still are very much a free society compared to many other countries.

    I have long COVID infected in April 2020 took 2 weeks to recover but now have a damaged lymph node and unpredictable bouts of exhaustion.

    Went shopping this morning and saw roughly 80% young people not wearing a mask were it is mandatory, my first thoughts were these people don’t give a toss.

    On the rugby front we will all need vaccine passes to get through the turnstiles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    ...On the rugby front we will all need vaccine passes to get through the turnstiles.
    Or a self tested negative lateral flow result, which you can just make up!

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    On the rugby front we will all need vaccine passes to get through the turnstiles.
    I'd expect that these latest restrictions will be rescinded well before our first game.
    I f*cking hate wi*an.

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    Covid pass - Not vaccine pass. Some people are being misled thinking a "Vaccine passport" will mean having to have the vaccine to get in venues, especially some young kids.
    Covid pass is either vaccinated or tested negatively.


    As much as I would love the vaccine to work 100% and stop transmission, it doesn't. Covid passes should be used to show you have tested negatively.

    I'd much rather sit/stand in a stand full of un-vaccinated people that have tested negatively, rather than a stand full of vaccinated that haven't tested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfaw View Post
    Covid pass - Not vaccine pass. Some people are being misled thinking a "Vaccine passport" will mean having to have the vaccine to get in venues, especially some young kids.
    Covid pass is either vaccinated or tested negatively.


    As much as I would love the vaccine to work 100% and stop transmission, it doesn't. Covid passes should be used to show you have tested negatively.

    I'd much rather sit/stand in a stand full of un-vaccinated people that have tested negatively, rather than a stand full of vaccinated that haven't tested.
    The problem is that LFT's are far from reliable, and it's too easy for gobshites to just lie and record a false one (either they don't take the test or test positive, shrug and think "screw everyone else, I'm not missing out")
    I f*cking hate wi*an.

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