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Thread: Possibly sums it up

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    Default Possibly sums it up

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...les-hat-trick?

    Good read at the end of an unbelievable weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...les-hat-trick?

    Good read at the end of an unbelievable weekend.
    Nice to get some positive press for a change.

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    The media portrayed us as villains going into this,” the St Helens forward, Morgan Knowles, said. “British culture likes to see people fail and see an underdog win, but it’s about time we get the credit we deserve. We’re the best team, we’ve been the best team for the last three or four years and the consistency we’ve shown has been better than any team around in Super League

    Couldn't have put it better myself Morgan

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    It’s not a question of can we improve more a question of do we even need to. Its a question of can the other clubs catch up? We will be in the big games next year and with our strong defence and continually growing confidence we will be very tough to beat.
    Could our attack improve? I think so. If we started with Dodd and Welsby Saturday i reckon we score more points but thats easy for me to say now I suppose. It will be interesting to see how Dodd and Welsby combine with Welsby at fullback. Coote and Lomax click well out wide in the opposition 20 but with Welsby i think we’ll be far more dangerous from deep covering the width of the pitch.
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    The coverage of the game has been embarrassing, both before and after. You’d have had no idea who Catalans were playing or that the team they were playing, could go three in a row. The post match reports were heavily weighted in Catalans’ favour, declaring them unlucky and beaten by refereeing decisions rather than being poor for much of the game, only scoring when they were against twelve and taking two points on two occasions, the first was the first time they had the ball in our half and the second, I haven’t a clue why they took that at that time. FWIW, I don’t think we were great with the ball but our defence was fierce but I’m yet to see anywhere with an even report of the match.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    The coverage of the game has been embarrassing, both before and after. You’d have had no idea who Catalans were playing or that the team they were playing, could go three in a row. The post match reports were heavily weighted in Catalans’ favour, declaring them unlucky and beaten by refereeing decisions rather than being poor for much of the game, only scoring when they were against twelve and taking two points on two occasions, the first was the first time they had the ball in our half and the second, I haven’t a clue why they took that at that time. FWIW, I don’t think we were great with the ball but our defence was fierce but I’m yet to see anywhere with an even report of the match.
    I had to switch off the pre match commentary, like you say it was difficult to get a mention who the Catalans opponents were, switched the game back on at 5-55pm for the Tomkins Brothers Show then it settled down when Saints were dominating the tackles and terrority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I had to switch off the pre match commentary, like you say it was difficult to get a mention who the Catalans opponents were, switched the game back on at 5-55pm for the Tomkins Brothers Show then it settled down when Saints were dominating the tackles and terrority.
    I don't know why people get so riled about this. The big story was Catalans Dragons - that much is obvious - and Sky TV cover the sport as entertainment so play to the narratives. So the focus was more on them and their historic final appearance and chance for them to be crowned champions.

    The same goes for people complaining about Jon Wells focussing on Leeds for the womens GF. He is talking up Leeds in a game where Saints were overwhelming favourites, that's what happens in all sports where TV is selling it as a contest.

    When commentators get excited about upsets in football it's not because they hate [insert big club here], it's because that is a more compelling story to sell to viewers. It goes with the territory of being the best, people want to see someone challenge and overthrow you - it has literally always been like this and we are all exactly the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    I don't know why people get so riled about this. The big story was Catalans Dragons - that much is obvious - and Sky TV cover the sport as entertainment so play to the narratives. So the focus was more on them and their historic final appearance and chance for them to be crowned champions.

    The same goes for people complaining about Jon Wells focussing on Leeds for the womens GF. He is talking up Leeds in a game where Saints were overwhelming favourites, that's what happens in all sports where TV is selling it as a contest.

    When commentators get excited about upsets in football it's not because they hate [insert big club here], it's because that is a more compelling story to sell to viewers. It goes with the territory of being the best, people want to see someone challenge and overthrow you - it has literally always been like this and we are all exactly the same.
    Nailed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    I don't know why people get so riled about this. The big story was Catalans Dragons - that much is obvious - and Sky TV cover the sport as entertainment so play to the narratives. So the focus was more on them and their historic final appearance and chance for them to be crowned champions.

    The same goes for people complaining about Jon Wells focussing on Leeds for the womens GF. He is talking up Leeds in a game where Saints were overwhelming favourites, that's what happens in all sports where TV is selling it as a contest.

    When commentators get excited about upsets in football it's not because they hate [insert big club here], it's because that is a more compelling story to sell to viewers. It goes with the territory of being the best, people want to see someone challenge and overthrow you - it has literally always been like this and we are all exactly the same.
    And yet, when Leeds went on that run of GF's, it was all about Leeds. You can't have it both ways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    And yet, when Leeds went on that run of GF's, it was all about Leeds. You can't have it both ways.
    Don't recall them playing Catalans in the final. Or even being favourites in a lot of cases.

    I don't actually remember build ups being all about them either. But then I thought Saints were given lots of admiration and respect on Sky so maybe I'm just hearing different things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    I don't know why people get so riled about this. The big story was Catalans Dragons - that much is obvious - and Sky TV cover the sport as entertainment so play to the narratives. So the focus was more on them and their historic final appearance and chance for them to be crowned champions.

    The same goes for people complaining about Jon Wells focussing on Leeds for the womens GF. He is talking up Leeds in a game where Saints were overwhelming favourites, that's what happens in all sports where TV is selling it as a contest.

    When commentators get excited about upsets in football it's not because they hate [insert big club here], it's because that is a more compelling story to sell to viewers. It goes with the territory of being the best, people want to see someone challenge and overthrow you - it has literally always been like this and we are all exactly the same.
    Match reports for papers and the internet should be fair. I’m yet to see an even one and Knowles is spot on for me. Sky are Sky, they’re incompetent, it’s a real surprise that Arthur spoke about Catalans in fairness, I’m surprised he didn’t start calling them someone else, given how good he is at his job.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    I don't know why people get so riled about this. The big story was Catalans Dragons - that much is obvious - and Sky TV cover the sport as entertainment so play to the narratives. So the focus was more on them and their historic final appearance and chance for them to be crowned champions.

    The same goes for people complaining about Jon Wells focussing on Leeds for the womens GF. He is talking up Leeds in a game where Saints were overwhelming favourites, that's what happens in all sports where TV is selling it as a contest.

    When commentators get excited about upsets in football it's not because they hate [insert big club here], it's because that is a more compelling story to sell to viewers. It goes with the territory of being the best, people want to see someone challenge and overthrow you - it has literally always been like this and we are all exactly the same.
    I understand that and factored that in but it was very much OTT and embarrassing and that was why I switched off until 5 mins before game time.

    On the Ladies Final I disagree entirely, Wells was atrocious and showed a total lack of respect to the Saints wanting a couple of our players to be sent to the sin bin. I don't know if something was said to Wells at half time but he toned it down and started to show respect to the saints players as the margin of points increased.

    The Jodie Cunningham post match speech was remarkable, I wished she repeated that into the face of Wells face so he could have absorbed the embarrassment.

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    I don't mind it being all about the opposition tbf, love a bit of 'us against the world' mentality. A lot of top coaches manage to create a bit of that even when it wasn't already there in the media, I guess it helps remove a bit of the favourites tag and the pressure/complacency which can come from it. The Sky commentary is just poor though rather than any bias really.

    Sure there's the talking up of the underdog mentality that FearTheVee is talking about but at least in football that's combined with some reasonable analysis of the game. I'm not even sure they're doing it intentionally in RL any more, it's perhaps just the limitations of their intelligence about the game.

    If you were assembling a commentary team of ex-players for RL you'd be looking for people with experience of the tactical and skillful sides of the game - most likely your fullbacks, half backs, hookers etc who can offer some genuine insight in to what's actually going on. Or failing that someone who's articulate and can talk enthusiastically and engagingly about things like workmate, defensive effort etc. Get both and you're onto a winner.

    Instead we get two thick-as-mince, inarticulate prop forwards, a commentator whose only contributions are to shout 'oof' at every big hit and get the players names wrong. At least on the latter he's branched out from just getting the black players mixed up now.

    And then there's Phil Clarke. I mean at half time in the women's game he was going on about how Courtney Winfield-Hill's kicking performance in the first half was the best he'd ever seen in either the men's or women's game. Aside from it being totally unnecessary (it doesn't need to be the best ever to praise something done well), he couldn't even be bothered to say why. Literally nothing about vision around the wingers positioning, awareness of the conditions with the sun etc. Every game it's 'X is the best in the league at Y' and it's tedious uneducated nonsense. It's all he's got to contribute though.

    As a package they're doing the game far more harm than Eddie and Stevo ever did and frankly when it comes to the next TV deal, removing all of them needs to be part of any agreement to stay with Sky no matter what that costs us financially.

    Sorry, the mention of Sky set me off a bit there
    Last edited by Private Pyle; 11th October 2021 at 11:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheVee View Post
    Don't recall them playing Catalans in the final. Or even being favourites in a lot of cases.

    I don't actually remember build ups being all about them either. But then I thought Saints were given lots of admiration and respect on Sky so maybe I'm just hearing different things.

    I remember the third at least, with the build-up narrative all being about 'can Leeds make it a hat-trick of GF wins'? With us as a bit of an afterthought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pyle View Post
    tbf, love a bit of 'us against the world' mentality.

    Likewise.

    And I think it's warranted.
    I f*cking hate wi*an.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    And yet, when Leeds went on that run of GF's, it was all about Leeds. You can't have it both ways.
    I agree. Its not so much the negativity towards saints that gets my back up but the constant arse licking of clubs like Wi**n and Leeds.
    I don’t mind the SKY lot wanting an upset and cheering the underdogs as long as they are consistent. In the 2014 GF did they pay us much credit for beating Wigan after coming into the game as big underdogs with no first choice half backs, Makinson at fullback, Flanagan at scrum half and Scarsbrook at centre? Or did they make up excuses for Wi**, see the whole result from a goon point of view, and point to Flowers absence as the goons reason for losing???

    SKY do occasionally give us credit but you can tell its through gritted teeth. Carney almost audibly sighs when speaking of our wins.
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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I understand that and factored that in but it was very much OTT and embarrassing and that was why I switched off until 5 mins before game time.

    On the Ladies Final I disagree entirely, Wells was atrocious and showed a total lack of respect to the Saints wanting a couple of our players to be sent to the sin bin. I don't know if something was said to Wells at half time but he toned it down and started to show respect to the saints players as the margin of points increased.

    The Jodie Cunningham post match speech was remarkable, I wished she repeated that into the face of Wells face so he could have absorbed the embarrassment.
    I mentioned the Clarke managing to mention Ratboy during the ladies match on another thread, two teams with nothing to do with Catalans or Wigan, ladies not men playing and yet still Clarke manages to mention Ratboy (he was comparing the incomparible Jodie to him)! Apart from the fact it's a stupid comparison to make, they just can't give it a rest, can they? Like you, I noted Wells barefaced hostility to the Saints girls, which, as you point out, disipated somewhat in the second half as our girls took control. Great speech by Jodie, it was hard to believe that we were watching "amateurs". Wonderful stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    I mentioned the Clarke managing to mention Ratboy during the ladies match on another thread, two teams with nothing to do with Catalans or Wigan, ladies not men playing and yet still Clarke manages to mention Ratboy (he was comparing the incomparible Jodie to him)! Apart from the fact it's a stupid comparison to make, they just can't give it a rest, can they? Like you, I noted Wells barefaced hostility to the Saints girls, which, as you point out, disipated somewhat in the second half as our girls took control. Great speech by Jodie, it was hard to believe that we were watching "amateurs". Wonderful stuff.
    What was getting on my wick was the adorement of the Leeds half back Courtney Winfield-Hill as though she was world class no 1 every time she touched the ball, I am a big fan of our No 6 Zoey Harris who didn't get any recognition until the last 10 mins in the game, she was brilliant and had all the skills similar to Tommy Martyn. Zoey Harris v Courtney Winfield Hill match up was a bit lobsided as Zoey outlayed Courtney by a fair margin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    What was getting on my wick was the adorement of the Leeds half back Courtney Winfield-Hill as though she was world class no 1 every time she touched the ball, I am a big fan of our No 6 Zoey Harris who didn't get any recognition until the last 10 mins in the game, she was brilliant and had all the skills similar to Tommy Martyn. Zoey Harris v Courtney Winfield Hill match up was a bit lobsided as Zoey outlayed Courtney by a fair margin.
    Spot on mate. Zoe's reading of the game and control was superb. Whilst like the mens team the ladies strength is that they are a team, some gifted individuals still stood out, Harris,Cunningham Hardcastle, Rudge to name but four.

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    Siege mentality has been good for us.

    Losing to Wire in the Ccfinal (in hindsight) was good for us.

    We have had a steel throughout the team that was missing for a few years, and that steel has seen us go on to play, and win 4 out of the last 5 major finals.

    I don’t care what Gausch, Wells or Clarke say.


    Everyone hates us, and we don’t care.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    The coverage of the game has been embarrassing, both before and after. You’d have had no idea who Catalans were playing or that the team they were playing, could go three in a row. The post match reports were heavily weighted in Catalans’ favour, declaring them unlucky and beaten by refereeing decisions rather than being poor for much of the game, only scoring when they were against twelve and taking two points on two occasions, the first was the first time they had the ball in our half and the second, I haven’t a clue why they took that at that time. FWIW, I don’t think we were great with the ball but our defence was fierce but I’m yet to see anywhere with an even report of the match.
    Why do you care???? Enjoy the win 😑

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    Siege mentality has been good for us.

    Losing to Wire in the Ccfinal (in hindsight) was good for us.

    We have had a steel throughout the team that was missing for a few years, and that steel has seen us go on to play, and win 4 out of the last 5 major finals.

    I don’t care what Gausch, Wells or Clarke say.


    Everyone hates us, and we don’t care.
    Except the “we don’t care bit” isn’t true. And nor is the “everyone hates us” bit!

    Bar the odd loon I’ve seen loads of respect and congrats - including from the usual Wigan, wire, Leeds suspects and across the media.

    Yes some reports might have mentioned a couple of “controversial” points around the penalty try and Sione slap but they are talking points whether we like it or not, so they get reported.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Match reports for papers and the internet should be fair. I’m yet to see an even one and Knowles is spot on for me. Sky are Sky, they’re incompetent, it’s a real surprise that Arthur spoke about Catalans in fairness, I’m surprised he didn’t start calling them someone else, given how good he is at his job.
    You obviously don’t read the right newspaper. The Sunday Telegraph opened its report with “Much has been made of Catalans Dragons remarkable charge to their maiden Grand Final, but a third successive Super League title for St Helens confirmed the defending champions as one of the greatest sides of the modern era.” There is no mention of a possible penalty try and the final part states “…Coote converted to seal victory, elevating his team to the realms of greatness”.

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    I had TalkSPORT on in the car this afternoon, about 1:10, and they were going on about the game, both presenters going on about the quality and how competitive it was, only lasted a couple of minutes and didnt really go in to much detail though which was a shame, would have been nice for them to go on about it a bit more, considering they broadcast some games.

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    I wonder if St Helens as 3 time Champions and Challenge Cup winners will get a mention on BBC Sports personality this year , just wondering .

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