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Thread: Joe Batchelor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickles Forearm View Post
    His big hit on Kasiano summed him up for me. All heart, will to win. Good lad
    I’m surprised the Disciplinary didn’t look at that.Not that I thought there was anything wrong with it but the way they’ve been recently. What I’ve noticed recently is referee saying “with force”. So are they saying that you can’t tackle with aggression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    If thats the case he should have stuck one as well on Rat Boy and then arranged 2 friendly games.
    Only one friendly game is allowed to count against suspension. Good to see that the best player in Superleague still gets under your skin though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Mata'utia would only miss a friendly as they count in suspension terms.
    Well that's good news. I didn't even consider the friendlies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Only one friendly game is allowed to count against suspension. Good to see that the best player in Superleague still gets under your skin though.
    He's a good player, but more lack of respect and a surface irritant these days when him and Joel put their act together, reminded me of the bullying of the females at Standish.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MPww-IBzps

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Only one friendly game is allowed to count against suspension. Good to see that the best player in Superleague still gets under your skin though.
    Don't think anyone can argue with Tomkins being a great player, probably why he didn't want anything to do with Wigan and went to Catalans, nice to see you basking in reflected glory that your own club couldn't muster up (although lowest point scorers per match in the entire league is a pretty memorable milestone, or should that be millstone?). He is rather on the mouthy and niggly side though. Especially when out with his brother and verbally abusing barmaids, class act.
    Last edited by Prez; 12th October 2021 at 14:57.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Only one friendly game is allowed to count against suspension. Good to see that the best player in Superleague still gets under your skin though.
    The fact you need to gloat about how good an ex-player is says so so much about how far you have fallen as a club.

    You brought John "Batty" back hoping he would be the best in the comp. You'd have been better off with Nora.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    Knowles could play prop if Bell takes Loose Forward spot .
    I think that would be a waste of Knowles’s talent. He’s the best 13 in the league by a mile and would be much less effective at prop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    Only one friendly game is allowed to count against suspension. Good to see that the best player in Superleague still gets under your skin though.
    As an opposition player, I am sure he gets under yours if truth be told Brian. Personally, I think he's a great player albeit not as good as he was before the NRL battered him, possibly with the exception of this season. Saints fans aren't alone in their derision of Tomkins and I don't think that ire is directed solely at his talent. I think most would, perhaps begrudgingly, accept that.

    What gets at opposition fans is the dark side of his game that you equally can't ignore. He's quite rightly, IMO, criticised for being a sly underhanded player. Call me old-fashioned but those parts of his game aren't good ones and go against how I feel the game should be played. You could argue that most Clubs have nigglers but he consistently takes that to another level. Add to that the fact that his little video indiscretion portrayed him as a grubby undesirable and you can understand how the persona is arrived at so he kinda gets what he deserves. Not that he'd care a jot, he thrives on it.

    What's your view of that? Do you condone it or just not see it? Genuine question.
    Last edited by Weetabix; 12th October 2021 at 15:58.

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    When Tomkins came on the scene he was notable for extravagant talent, and equally extravagant efforts to augment that talent by cheating - the constant trapping in the tackle using his legs, and placing his head between the first marker’s legs more than anyone I can remember at top level. It’s a delightful irony for me that in what might be his last chance to win a grand final his last involvement was to be penalised for cheating at the ruck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    I think that would be a waste of Knowles’s talent. He’s the best 13 in the league by a mile and would be much less effective at prop.
    Hes been playing prop whilst Welsby was at 13 this year, I dont think it changed his game at all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Hes been playing prop whilst Welsby was at 13 this year, I dont think it changed his game at all?
    Welsby has either started elsewhere or come on to replace Knowles.

    Knowles hasn’t played prop for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Hes been playing prop whilst Welsby was at 13 this year, I dont think it changed his game at all?
    I should imagine a few fans have not noticed that, when Welsby is at 13 its a roving type one and Knowles supports the front row. Doesn't happen all that often though and it usually effects Amor by him playing little minutes and sat on the bench most of the time.
    Last edited by STIDDY; 14th October 2021 at 06:50.

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    Worth noting that Knowles also played prop for England earlier in the year and he had a great game.

    Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by reliable sauce View Post
    Welsby has either started elsewhere or come on to replace Knowles.

    Knowles hasn’t played prop for us.
    Suggest you rewatch the grand final - he played prop then. Sure he came off for Welsby, but Welsby stayed on when Knowles came back on, because he came back on at prop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Suggest you rewatch the grand final - he played prop then. Sure he came off for Welsby, but Welsby stayed on when Knowles came back on, because he came back on at prop.
    He's not doing to full range of functions of what you'd think of as a prop, though. I mean, he doesn't do the hard carries in the way the other more-traditional props do. Roles are increasingly fluid anyway, with more players named in a particular position but performing more of a hybrid role.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    He's not doing to full range of functions of what you'd think of as a prop, though. I mean, he doesn't do the hard carries in the way the other more-traditional props do. Roles are increasingly fluid anyway, with more players named in a particular position but performing more of a hybrid role.
    Pretty much most of our players can play hybrid roles and Woolf is smart in using it to keep the pressure level up, its only Amor that is in a fixed role and is more of a good holding prop, as I said earlier I think thats why sometimes Amor has bee left on the bench since the play offs.

    Everyone in superleague knows Woolfs tactics now of pressure and intensity, opposition don't get long periods of momentum because without the ball we can still attack with our defence, earlier in the season we were beating ourselves but the players have adjusted for the back end of the season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    He's not doing to full range of functions of what you'd think of as a prop, though. I mean, he doesn't do the hard carries in the way the other more-traditional props do. Roles are increasingly fluid anyway, with more players named in a particular position but performing more of a hybrid role.
    Absolutely.

    Knowles hasn’t been used as an out and out prop for us. He isn’t someone we rely on for yardage and continuous carries. His intensity playing at 13 in defence is something that no other player in super league can match. It was a good move to bring him whilst Welsby was still on to stabilise the defence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reliable sauce View Post
    Absolutely.

    Knowles hasn’t been used as an out and out prop for us. He isn’t someone we rely on for yardage and continuous carries. His intensity playing at 13 in defence is something that no other player in super league can match. It was a good move to bring him whilst Welsby was still on to stabilise the defence.
    Other than Walmsley do we depend on any of our props for yardage? It’s more often than not the back 5 and second rowers who are taking the ball in. Our props are mostly used for defensive intensity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Other than Walmsley do we depend on any of our props for yardage? It’s more often than not the back 5 and second rowers who are taking the ball in. Our props are mostly used for defensive intensity?
    Hurrell could be a handy addition in that department in fairness

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Other than Walmsley do we depend on any of our props for yardage? It’s more often than not the back 5 and second rowers who are taking the ball in. Our props are mostly used for defensive intensity?

    I'd say we definitely do. Just because Walmsley is so effective doesn't mean that the other props don't do the hard carries. Him, LMS and Paasi do take on the bulk of the carries, though, with Lees & Amor typically doing around half of each of those three.
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Other than Walmsley do we depend on any of our props for yardage? It’s more often than not the back 5 and second rowers who are taking the ball in. Our props are mostly used for defensive intensity?
    Wow. This is up there with the most bizarre comments I’ve seen on here.

    To put it in black and white for you so you can contextualise it, here are some of our props stats from the superleague website that prove how reliant we are on their go forward and carries, and you can’t exclude Walmsley when he’s our no.1 prop.

    Averages;
    Walmsley 17 carries, 140m
    LMS 11 carries, 80m
    Paasi 11 carries, 82m
    Amor 11 carries, 84m
    Lees 8 carries, 62m

    Loose forward - Knowles 7 carries, 60m (evidently not a prop and our lowest meter maker in the forwards)

    Second row;
    Batchelor 8 carries, 52m
    Bentley 11 carries, 73m
    Thompson 11 carries, 77m
    Matautia 10, 86m

    If you don’t want props to make meters or if you want to see what happens when they don’t, watch Wigan, they have a pack full of non meter making props.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reliable sauce View Post
    Wow. This is up there with the most bizarre comments I’ve seen on here.

    To put it in black and white for you so you can contextualise it, here are some of our props stats from the superleague website that prove how reliant we are on their go forward and carries, and you can’t exclude Walmsley when he’s our no.1 prop.

    Averages;
    Walmsley 17 carries, 140m
    LMS 11 carries, 80m
    Paasi 11 carries, 82m
    Amor 11 carries, 84m
    Lees 8 carries, 62m

    Loose forward - Knowles 7 carries, 60m (evidently not a prop and our lowest meter maker in the forwards)

    Second row;
    Batchelor 8 carries, 52m
    Bentley 11 carries, 73m
    Thompson 11 carries, 77m
    Matautia 10, 86m

    If you don’t want props to make meters or if you want to see what happens when they don’t, watch Wigan, they have a pack full of non meter making props.
    Im not saying I dont want them to. But, normally, our pattern is winger takes tackle 1, Centre 2, second row/ other winger tackle 3, prop/forward tackle 4, shift play/ play through the halfbacks tackle 5, kick/ last tackle play. Obviously there's variation on this, but the props are realistically only taking the ball in 1/2 tackles a set. I exclude Walmsley because he is (generally) the only prop who might be involved in those halfback plays. This can be seen as Walmsley made over double the metres of Lees. That doesnt mean Lees hasnt been effective in his role, its just that his role isnt around taking the ball up 2/3 times a set, same as Knowles.

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    All the talk of Knowles to prop needs to stop. You don't bring a quality player through the system from 16 years of age, produce him as one of the best loose forwards around, and then stick him at prop.

    His game is all about intensity in defence and that would also drop off if he was taking 1 or 2 carries each set. Let him keep doing what he is doing, and doing very well I may add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OoOGazOoO View Post
    All the talk of Knowles to prop needs to stop. You don't bring a quality player through the system from 16 years of age, produce him as one of the best loose forwards around, and then stick him at prop.

    His game is all about intensity in defence and that would also drop off if he was taking 1 or 2 carries each set. Let him keep doing what he is doing, and doing very well I may add.
    Knowles can play anywhere in the pack in the same way Welsby can play anywhere in the backs. Woolf has him doing whats needed if its front row power he can do it without having the no 8 or 10 on the back of his shirt.

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