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Thread: Wire HKR

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Honest question Wolfie. Are Warringtons issues coaching related or cultural in your opinion? Is it a poor squad/player mentality etc? You know the team better than any of us, so thought i would ask.
    I definitely think coaching has been the issue in recent times. Price wasn’t up to the job, and most fans called it before he was given his extension. The history is also a factor though. We all feel the weight of it but I suspect Simon Moran as much as anyone. This has led to us going for the quick fix, often in desperation hence Greg Inglis. We were all willing him to succeed but we all felt it was a massive gamble. Of course the nature of fandom is that generally we don’t admit things like this to the opposition but just go with “my club right or wrong” which strangles debate.
    Our youth history is well documented and it’s not enough to cling onto Harris and Sculthorpe. Having said that we are making progress. This year Thewliss is making progress and I think Longstaff is one to watch. So on the coaching front why when moving Ratchford to hooker(!) did he not switch Thewliss to fullback and Ashton to the wing because for all his strengths Ashton is totally frail under the high ball (for now).
    Still there’s always next year…

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie McWolf View Post
    I definitely think coaching has been the issue in recent times. Price wasn’t up to the job, and most fans called it before he was given his extension. The history is also a factor though. We all feel the weight of it but I suspect Simon Moran as much as anyone. This has led to us going for the quick fix, often in desperation hence Greg Inglis. We were all willing him to succeed but we all felt it was a massive gamble. Of course the nature of fandom is that generally we don’t admit things like this to the opposition but just go with “my club right or wrong” which strangles debate.
    Our youth history is well documented and it’s not enough to cling onto Harris and Sculthorpe. Having said that we are making progress. This year Thewliss is making progress and I think Longstaff is one to watch. So on the coaching front why when moving Ratchford to hooker(!) did he not switch Thewliss to fullback and Ashton to the wing because for all his strengths Ashton is totally frail under the high ball (for now).
    Still there’s always next year…
    Fair enough mate. You came close under Tony Smith but that grand final always slipped away. I had a feeling in my water you would do it this year simply because you can’t keep not winning it. One of the lads in my local gym is a Wire fan and i said to him a few weeks back that you would either crash out in the first play off game, or go all the way. That seems to sum up Warrington all over.
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie McWolf View Post
    I definitely think coaching has been the issue in recent times. Price wasn’t up to the job, and most fans called it before he was given his extension. The history is also a factor though. We all feel the weight of it but I suspect Simon Moran as much as anyone. This has led to us going for the quick fix, often in desperation hence Greg Inglis. We were all willing him to succeed but we all felt it was a massive gamble. Of course the nature of fandom is that generally we don’t admit things like this to the opposition but just go with “my club right or wrong” which strangles debate.
    Our youth history is well documented and it’s not enough to cling onto Harris and Sculthorpe. Having said that we are making progress. This year Thewliss is making progress and I think Longstaff is one to watch. So on the coaching front why when moving Ratchford to hooker(!) did he not switch Thewliss to fullback and Ashton to the wing because for all his strengths Ashton is totally frail under the high ball (for now).
    Still there’s always next year…
    I often wonder how much weight the coach has on recruitment, over the years their always seem to be a short term experimentation fix which seems to make the side unbalanced. Must be difficult for the promising young players as well, I know at Saints that their is a lot of man management with our young ones to take pressure off them, Dodd for instance was given a 2 year plan. I get the impression its sink or swim with some of the wire young ones and the development is rushed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I often wonder how much weight the coach has on recruitment, over the years their always seem to be a short term experimentation fix which seems to make the side unbalanced. Must be difficult for the promising young players as well, I know at Saints that their is a lot of man management with our young ones to take pressure off them, Dodd for instance was given a 2 year plan. I get the impression its sink or swim with some of the wire young ones and the development is rushed.
    You would imagine a decent coach would like to have full control of his squad and know every player inside and out. It can’t be easy if, lets say Simon Moran goes out signing Greg Inglis. It might shift plenty season tickets and named jerseys, making it a good bit of business. It doesn’t necessarily equal more trophies though.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    You would imagine a decent coach would like to have full control of his squad and know every player inside and out. It can’t be easy if, lets say Simon Moran goes out signing Greg Inglis. It might shift plenty season tickets and named jerseys, making it a good bit of business. It doesn’t necessarily equal more trophies though.
    I would imagine the coach, CEO and chairman would need to have full agreement on the type of player on and off the field. Also the player would need to see the attraction of playing at a club through the presentation of the coach, CEO and chairman.

    When Ben Barba signed for us over Warrington we must have presented a better structure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil B View Post
    I am that fan. I have recently started drawing my old age pension and Warrington have never won the Championship in my lifetime. That is some record!!
    I was born two years after you, so of course not only have Warrington not been champions in my lifetime, Leigh, Swinton, Halifax, Dewsbury and Featherstone have. I think that shows just how much the Wire have been consistent in their underperforming

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie McWolf View Post
    I definitely think coaching has been the issue in recent times. Price wasn’t up to the job, and most fans called it before he was given his extension. The history is also a factor though. We all feel the weight of it but I suspect Simon Moran as much as anyone. This has led to us going for the quick fix, often in desperation hence Greg Inglis. We were all willing him to succeed but we all felt it was a massive gamble. Of course the nature of fandom is that generally we don’t admit things like this to the opposition but just go with “my club right or wrong” which strangles debate.
    Our youth history is well documented and it’s not enough to cling onto Harris and Sculthorpe. Having said that we are making progress. This year Thewliss is making progress and I think Longstaff is one to watch. So on the coaching front why when moving Ratchford to hooker(!) did he not switch Thewliss to fullback and Ashton to the wing because for all his strengths Ashton is totally frail under the high ball (for now).
    Still there’s always next year…
    Think the underlying problem with Wire is their academy recruitment - Saints recently signed no less that 10 players from the Rylands team - out of a total of 13 players. It’s like Warrington signing 10 youngsters from blackbrook - our fans would be fuming - bet most of those Rylands youngsters are Wire fans?

    No other super league teams can match the academies of Saints, Wigan & Leeds - and you can see the results of their investments. If wire want prolonged success in the future they need to fix this problem.

    https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2021/09/1...ings-for-2022/
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    Some great points made in this thread (away from the great p*ss-taking )

    Two things that strike me as hitting home are firstly that the 3 most successful sides in SL - Saints, Leeds, wi*an - have by some distance the best record of bringing through talent into the professional game, and all have had, during their successful periods, a core of players that have come through the ranks. Even Bratfud had a good core of players they'd brought through (Peacock, Fielden, Deacon, Robbie Paul, Pryce). Does this generate that deeper attachment for the club that breeds a stronger desire to succeed not just for personal glory but for for the club and fans?

    And secondly the nature of the 'superstar' signings Wire make. They can be like a kid who sees a new shiny thing and wants it. I do think it's Moran who chases these signings - and what coach is going to turn down the opportunity to work with top players (and effectively say to the owner "nah, I don't think he's right for my team"). That often creates an imbalance in the team - look at having Widdop, Williams & Austin all in the same squad. It's nuts. And it smacks of chasing headlines and attention. The best-performing teams aim for balance first - and if a top-tier player becomes available that fits into then go for it. But don't sign a top-tier player then see how they can be fitted in.

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    I remember the excitement coming out of Warrington in the late 00’s when they signed Matt King, Chris Hicks and Michael Monoghan. I remember thinking at the time that stacking a team with great players is very different from having a great team. We played Wire away in 2007 with Paul Clough playing right centre in the absence of Matt Gidley. All the talk was about how Clough would struggle to contain King. Clough scored a hat trick against Matt King that night. Pretty funny at the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    Fair play to you Wolfie, you've always been pretty honest and engaging. You're the only Wire fan to have fronted up on here after your loss so far, so respect.
    Rubber Duckie is fairly active on their board. Still not managed to respond on here though.

    How odd. He was full of it before they played Hull KR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Rubber Duckie is fairly active on their board. Still not managed to respond on here though.

    How odd. He was full of it before they played Hull KR
    He will be back before the start of next season Ralph.

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    I bet if we lose on Friday he will be on over the weekend.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    I remember the excitement coming out of Warrington in the late 00’s when they signed Matt King, Chris Hicks and Michael Monoghan. I remember thinking at the time that stacking a team with great players is very different from having a great team. We played Wire away in 2007 with Paul Clough playing right centre in the absence of Matt Gidley. All the talk was about how Clough would struggle to contain King. Clough scored a hat trick against Matt King that night. Pretty funny at the time.
    I disagree wit you on this. Matt King took a season to fit in but was a fantastic centre the second season. Chris Hicks was not a superstar signing, most of us asked Chris who? But he turned out a real belter. Monaghan wanted to be a scrum half, he wasn’t and once he settled in he was a fantastic player. How we didn’t win a GF under Tony Smith is one of those mysteries that will never be loved.
    Looking to the future I’m hoping that Powell does for us what 5he current Chelsea coach did. Hope springs eternal.
    When laughing at our lack of success it is worth bearing in mind that from the mid70’s to the mid 90’s we didn’t have a pot to pee in. We had a stadium that wasn’t fit for purpose with the horrendous Touchdown club taking up a big part of it. During that period we were happy to avoid relegation.
    Under Tony Smith we played some of the most exciting rugby I have seen, so progress has been made and although I was sickened by Fridays display it shows how far we have come.
    Anyway I’m on my holidays in Portugal now so going to sit back, relax and forget all about rugby for a week…unless Leeds win of course!Chin, chin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie McWolf View Post
    I disagree wit you on this. Matt King took a season to fit in but was a fantastic centre the second season. Chris Hicks was not a superstar signing, most of us asked Chris who? But he turned out a real belter. Monaghan wanted to be a scrum half, he wasn’t and once he settled in he was a fantastic player. How we didn’t win a GF under Tony Smith is one of those mysteries that will never be loved.
    Looking to the future I’m hoping that Powell does for us what 5he current Chelsea coach did. Hope springs eternal.
    When laughing at our lack of success it is worth bearing in mind that from the mid70’s to the mid 90’s we didn’t have a pot to pee in. We had a stadium that wasn’t fit for purpose with the horrendous Touchdown club taking up a big part of it. During that period we were happy to avoid relegation.
    Under Tony Smith we played some of the most exciting rugby I have seen, so progress has been made and although I was sickened by Fridays display it shows how far we have come.
    Anyway I’m on my holidays in Portugal now so going to sit back, relax and forget all about rugby for a week…unless Leeds win of course!Chin, chin.
    I thought Warrington were good to watch under Tony Smith and I think he’s one of the few coaches who want to make the game an exciting spectacle. Powell is capable of coaching entertaining Rugby and I hope he doesn’t react to a bigger gig by going conservative.

    It’s off topic but I’d be interested in a none Saints take on the state of Wigan and the game. I love to laugh at them but it’s worrying for the state of the game as a whole when, despite being so poor, they finish fourth. Do people in Warrington worry about the state of the game and do you think Wigan being in such a parlous state is a symptom of the whole lot going down the pan? I’m quite worried about it. I don’t think it makes for a healthy competition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    I thought Warrington were good to watch under Tony Smith and I think he’s one of the few coaches who want to make the game an exciting spectacle. Powell is capable of coaching entertaining Rugby and I hope he doesn’t react to a bigger gig by going conservative.

    It’s off topic but I’d be interested in a none Saints take on the state of Wigan and the game. I love to laugh at them but it’s worrying for the state of the game as a whole when, despite being so poor, they finish fourth. Do people in Warrington worry about the state of the game and do you think Wigan being in such a parlous state is a symptom of the whole lot going down the pan? I’m quite worried about it. I don’t think it makes for a healthy competition.
    It is indeed worrying for a while it was usually the top 4 clubs in the mix and now it’s the top 3, when in reality you need 6 clubs to provide intensity in games. I don’t think it helps in having a defensive, slow spoiler type Superleague, we also get clubs going more for the short term fix with a large turnover of players that reduces stability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie McWolf View Post
    Anyway I’m on my holidays in Portugal now so going to sit back, relax and forget all about rugby for a week…unless Leeds win of course!Chin, chin.
    Send our regards to members of the Wire & Wigan squad who are already on their jollies.
    “With great power comes great responsibility”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfie McWolf View Post
    Chris Hicks was not a superstar signing

    His brother Robert delivered a lot more for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    It is indeed worrying for a while it was usually the top 4 clubs in the mix and now it’s the top 3, when in reality you need 6 clubs to provide intensity in games. I don’t think it helps in having a defensive, slow spoiler type Superleague, we also get clubs going more for the short term fix with a large turnover of players that reduces stability.
    It really is a worry . I have said it many a time on here . Smashing Wigan at their place was great but in the morning it didn’t sit right . Wigan are in a real state and if not careful could be in a very serious place . The game can’t afford to lose the heavyweights of our game .

    We are miles away from having 6 clubs challenging . The reality is , it’s not even a 3 horse contest . The third best in the league game fourth ! . We have a massive hole in producing players , there is a reliant on all super league clubs for Saints, Wigan , Leeds to produce players . What do Wakefield , Salford , Hull , Warrington bring to the party in terms of quality players or any players for that matter . You are right , the fast fix turnover of player ‘ You will do’ attitude will never produce anything but a mediocre Heartless squad . Just look at Warrington ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    His brother Robert delivered a lot more for you.
    Hahahahahahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    I thought Warrington were good to watch under Tony Smith and I think heÂ’s one of the few coaches who want to make the game an exciting spectacle. Powell is capable of coaching entertaining Rugby and I hope he doesnÂ’t react to a bigger gig by going conservative.

    ItÂ’s off topic but IÂ’d be interested in a none Saints take on the state of Wigan and the game. I love to laugh at them but itÂ’s worrying for the state of the game as a whole when, despite being so poor, they finish fourth. Do people in Warrington worry about the state of the game and do you think Wigan being in such a parlous state is a symptom of the whole lot going down the pan? IÂ’m quite worried about it. I donÂ’t think it makes for a healthy competition.
    I agree on all of the above.

    Tony Smith's sides are always entertaining to watch. He was instrumental at the start of Leeds' golden generation, brought silverware to Warrington and is doing a great job at HKR. I remember he was brave enough to pick Tomkins & Eastmond in the halves for England too. I think if he was in Warrington's coaching box the other night, I think they win that game. Warrington have been really inconsistent under Pryce and I think Powell is a good appointment for them. It will be interesting to see how he does because there's argument to say Warrington will have the strongest spine (set of pivots at least) in the competition next year. And we need a healthy competition as you're alluding to.

    On Wigan, their play off game vs Leeds was a dreadful game to watch. Wigan look like Saints did through the middle of the last decade. Lacking in quality. A few years back they had an embarrassment of riches in the outside backs and now they've been resorting to playing Isa & Farrell in the centres. They're losing two of their best players in Hastings & Gildart and whilst having French back will make a difference (he's their best strike weapon) I'm not sure that is enough on its own. For them, they'll be hoping Field can come back fully fit and show what he is capable of next year. Will they be signing another half? There was a rumour they were in for Corey Norman but I think if he comes to SL, it will be to Catalan. That would make sense given what he's said about not liking the cold and Catalan need a replacement for Maloney.

    This said, there was a report of record viewing figures for this season- https://www.superleague.co.uk/articl...iewing-figures
    so some positives at least.
    *Not to be confused with Mike Stephenson, MBE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post

    Two things that strike me as hitting home are firstly that the 3 most successful sides in SL - Saints, Leeds, wi*an - have by some distance the best record of bringing through talent into the professional game, and all have had, during their successful periods, a core of players that have come through the ranks. Even Bratfud had a good core of players they'd brought through (Peacock, Fielden, Deacon, Robbie Paul, Pryce). Does this generate that deeper attachment for the club that breeds a stronger desire to succeed not just for personal glory but for for the club and fans?

    .
    Ive always been a firm believer of this, no matter what sport. A core group of individuals who have all grown up together and played together for years will always outshine a bunch of talented mercenaries.

    Just look at the Penrith Panthers. I dont have the actual numbers to hand but as a conservative estimate I would say maybe 8 or 9 of their 17 have come through the youth system?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    ...This said, there was a report of record viewing figures for this season- https://www.superleague.co.uk/articl...iewing-figures
    so some positives at least.
    I haven't studied the figures, but I suspect that the increase is mainly down to Covid and fans not being able, or not wanting to go to live games, or even go down to the pub and watch them.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Meister View Post
    Think the underlying problem with Wire is their academy recruitment - Saints recently signed no less that 10 players from the Rylands team - out of a total of 13 players. It’s like Warrington signing 10 youngsters from blackbrook - our fans would be fuming - bet most of those Rylands youngsters are Wire fans?

    No other super league teams can match the academies of Saints, Wigan & Leeds - and you can see the results of their investments. If wire want prolonged success in the future they need to fix this problem.

    https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2021/09/1...ings-for-2022/
    I was told there was a fallout between Karl Fitzpatrick and Rylands, hence the majority of their team heading to Saints.

    Didn't Saints do something similar a couple of years back when they signed the majority of the Halton Hornets youngsters?

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    Clever arent we ?.

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