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Thread: Lomax Welsby Dodd

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    Quote Originally Posted by St. Christopher View Post
    Tough call for the coach who to play into the play offs if all are fit. There's a case to be made for a few combinations.
    The decision might be taken out of Woolf's hands with injuries / fitness - but if not he'll have to make the call.

    For next season I'd take a look at Lomax to full back and keeping Welsby and Dodd in the halves.
    Coote's been a major factor in our success the last seasons and will be missed - bringing Lomax's experience and defensive qualities into full back might be a good solution to try out - whilst from full back, some of Lomax's attacking qualities can be used well too.

    For this season - lets see how it plays out. It will be hard for anyone to miss out, but that could be the case.
    We need someone there with an accurate kicking game like Coote. Not sure JL has that in his repertoire.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    A few of us have been saying for 18 months that Lomax game has gone backwards. The big question, is that on Lomax, or the coaching? I find it strange that rumours surfaced earlier in the year of Lomax moving away from the club. Anyone who has last years grand final on video go back and watch the players collect their winners medals. Maybe I’m reading too much onto it but the exchange between Woolf and Lomax just seems a bit frosty. I think theres something not quite right there.
    It will be interesting to see what happens 3 weeks from now and who will be playing 6.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    A few of us have been saying for 18 months that Lomax game has gone backwards. The big question, is that on Lomax, or the coaching? I find it strange that rumours surfaced earlier in the year of Lomax moving away from the club. Anyone who has last years grand final on video go back and watch the players collect their winners medals. Maybe I’m reading too much onto it but the exchange between Woolf and Lomax just seems a bit frosty. I think theres something not quite right there.
    It will be interesting to see what happens 3 weeks from now and who will be playing 6.
    I think Lomax was the victim of Coote and Roby being off form in the first third of the season, everything was going through Lomax and the opposition were loading up on him.
    Just before he got injured Coote, Roby and Percival started to play well and that allowed Dodd and Welsby to settle in quickly as half backs.
    What we have now is the opposition have too many Saints players to think about….don’t think Lomax had that luxury, he was greatly overworked half way through the season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    A few of us have been saying for 18 months that Lomax game has gone backwards. The big question, is that on Lomax, or the coaching? I find it strange that rumours surfaced earlier in the year of Lomax moving away from the club. Anyone who has last years grand final on video go back and watch the players collect their winners medals. Maybe I’m reading too much onto it but the exchange between Woolf and Lomax just seems a bit frosty. I think theres something not quite right there.
    It will be interesting to see what happens 3 weeks from now and who will be playing 6.
    If I were Catalans or Toulouse I would be in Lomax's ear for a two year swansong.

    Saints have a history of getting too close with club institutions and being too sentimental
    with final playing and coaching contracts/extensions.

    Welsby and Dodd (individually and collectively) have thrown a bit of a spanner in the works by ripping it up
    and removing the " attacking clunkiness" in a matter of weeks.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
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    Lomax will be our starting 6 next year and will have a new lease of life having the pace and threat of Dodd & Welsby in the pivots alongside him. He has been excellent for us despite opposition doing their best to man mark him out of the game knowing that there isn't as much of a threat from Coote and Fages so they can overload on Lomax. Can guarantee Woolf brings him back into the starting line up if he's fit alongside Dodd with Welsby moving to the bench, assuming everyone else is fit.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Learning All The Songs roy litherland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    We need someone there with an accurate kicking game like Coote. Not sure JL has that in his repertoire.
    Dodd has George, there's no worries there he will be our 'kicker' next season.
    roy litherland it's happened i told you it would

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Lomax will be our starting 6 next year and will have a new lease of life having the pace and threat of Dodd & Welsby in the pivots alongside him. He has been excellent for us despite opposition doing their best to man mark him out of the game knowing that there isn't as much of a threat from Coote and Fages so they can overload on Lomax. Can guarantee Woolf brings him back into the starting line up if he's fit alongside Dodd with Welsby moving to the bench, assuming everyone else is fit.
    Lomax has been neutralised, to some extent, by close marking. With Welsby and Dodd in the mix, oppositions will focus on Lomax at their peril. I think I’m stating the obvious but I personally think that Dodd and Welsby will give Lomax scoring opportunities that he didn’t previously have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roy litherland View Post
    Dodd has George, there's no worries there he will be our 'kicker' next season.
    His short kicking game has already proved to be an incredible step up. The lad’s a good ‘un.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    Lomax has been neutralised, to some extent, by close marking. With Welsby and Dodd in the mix, oppositions will focus on Lomax at their peril. I think I’m stating the obvious but I personally think that Dodd and Welsby will give Lomax scoring opportunities that he didn’t previously have.
    I have been critical of Lomax, I think he has lost a bit of speed. Even so, Lomax, Dodd and Weslby as pivots next year could be a great combination. I my view Welsby or Lomax could play full back so it depends who ends up where. Weslby as fullback attacking on either side of the pitch could be the way forward. Even a slightly slower Lomax is still a good player, obviously.

    Who will be our second string three quarters is a pressing question, since Hopaote and Percival are the top tier with Simms as first reserve. If the wingers get injured who comes in for them?

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    Another point, no half back can ever be better than a good half back combination. To be fair to Lomax, has he ever really been part of a good combination? Have we ever watched Lomax and Who Ever and thought ‘wow thats like McGuire-Burrow, Long-Martyn’ ?
    He played fullback. Then in late 2017 he was partnering Smith to accommodate Barba, then he partnered Richardson, then Fages, now Dodd. Lomax has always been a solid player who to some extent has had to do it alone. Dodd and Welsby have played together for a while now and no doubt know how to make one another look good. As i say, the combination is more important than the individuals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Another point, no half back can ever be better than a good half back combination. To be fair to Lomax, has he ever really been part of a good combination? Have we ever watched Lomax and Who Ever and thought ‘wow thats like McGuire-Burrow, Long-Martyn’ ?
    He played fullback. Then in late 2017 he was partnering Smith to accommodate Barba, then he partnered Richardson, then Fages, now Dodd. Lomax has always been a solid player who to some extent has had to do it alone. Dodd and Welsby have played together for a while now and no doubt know how to make one another look good. As i say, the combination is more important than the individuals.
    It's always someone else's fault regarding Lomax.

    It might just be that he has been put on too high a pedestal ,
    is knocking on a bit
    and a young gun is staking a claim for his shirt a little earlier than expected.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    It's always someone else's fault regarding Lomax.

    It might just be that he has been put on too high a pedestal ,
    is knocking on a bit
    and a young gun is staking a claim for his shirt a little earlier than expected.
    Im not making excuses for Lomax. I think im making a fair point. I haven’t been completely blind when Lomax has been quiet in big games, and if we line up with Dodd and Welsby for the rest of this year i won’t be disappointed. I’m just saying, i think Lomax has suffered a bit from not having a good fit long term 7 along side him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Im not making excuses for Lomax. I think im making a fair point. I haven’t been completely blind when Lomax has been quiet in big games, and if we line up with Dodd and Welsby for the rest of this year i won’t be disappointed. I’m just saying, i think Lomax has suffered a bit from not having a good fit long term 7 along side him.
    Unfair to put this all on you and I didn't mean to .

    I do think fans in general have over hyped Lomax and mitigated his shortcomings.

    Look at this way.

    On his recent contract extension.

    If Saints were in for a HB from another club ,
    in his thirties
    who had been quiet in all his "big games/finals " for the past 2/3 years,
    , had no kicking game (needed a FB to do that for him) ,
    lost pace ,
    scored few tries
    and needed a quality 7 to ensure we got something out of him ,
    would there be the clamer to sign him ? Probably Not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    Unfair to put this all on you and I didn't mean to .

    I do think fans in general have over hyped Lomax and mitigated his shortcomings.

    Look at this way.

    On his recent contract extension.

    If Saints were in for a HB from another club ,
    in his thirties
    who had been quiet in all his "big games/finals " for the past 2/3 years,
    , had no kicking game (needed a FB to do that for him) ,
    lost pace ,
    scored few tries
    and needed a quality 7 to ensure we got something out of him ,
    would there be the clamer to sign him ? Probably Not.
    Yep thems all good points mate. I just can’t fathom the change in Lomax’s form from 2019 to 2020. I called it last year when some made excuses for him but to me it was like night and day. Maybe it’s the coaching. Or maybe 2019 was his peak season and now he’s simply passed it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    His short kicking game has already proved to be an incredible step up. The lad’s a good ‘un.
    No doubting Dodd’s short kicking game but Coote gives us balance by kicking from the other side ( the left). If you put JL at full back next season you lose that balance in my opinion. Welsby seems a more astute kicker and I’m sure he’ll be used in that role next season as well as offering a more dangerous running threat.

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    I wouldn’t be too quick to write off Lomax. He is a class act. Would rather have him for us than agin us. Agree that earlier in the season circumstances meant he was our sole creative player and teams recognised this and ganged up on him. I think he will run riot next season alongside Dodd and Welsby.

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    It’s good that we have options for next year and versatile players. It’s not always appreciated what Coote brings until you watch the team live. We need a strong senior player directing the team from fullback next year. A player who gets respect from the other 12 and is a good leader. I think it would be interesting to see Lomax at fullback but others have said he no longer has the legs for fullback, which is a good point to be fair.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    Lomax will be our starting 6 next year and will have a new lease of life having the pace and threat of Dodd & Welsby in the pivots alongside him. He has been excellent for us despite opposition doing their best to man mark him out of the game knowing that there isn't as much of a threat from Coote and Fages so they can overload on Lomax. Can guarantee Woolf brings him back into the starting line up if he's fit alongside Dodd with Welsby moving to the bench, assuming everyone else is fit.
    I think this is correct.
    Teams just stacked their right side defence against Percy & Lomax. We offered zero invention and very little threat on our right when Fages was playing there. We also ended every set with the same easy catch in the right corner, it drove me spare !
    With Dodd on the left now who has a fantastic array of kicks runs and passes, teams can't just number up on Lomax. If they do that Dodd will tear them a new one & Percy will have a field day. Welsby at FB will appear any and everywhere, also with a great choice of kicks & passes. As we all know, both Dodd & Welsby offer a great running threat, which Lomax is probably a bit lacking these days, however. Lomax's pass selection is top draw & his cool head will be of great help to the youngsters.
    This season it will be Lomax 6 when fit, Dodd 7 & Welsby on the bench to provide a gee up wherever is required.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickles Forearm View Post
    It’s comedy stuff reading people on here talking about Lomax not getting back into the team or Lomax to the bench. When Dodd or Welsby have a shocker and at some point they will, will the same people be saying Woolf clueless, player not ready etc. etc. Lomax is straight back in the team at a sniff of being fit enough to play. We accommodate Welsby somewhere in the 17 and Dodd starts at scrum half. Anything else is ludicrous nonsense.
    Bottom line is we have played better without Lomax.

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    Cant actually beleive what im reading. Lomax is the best player Saints have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titan Saint View Post
    Cant actually beleive what im reading. Lomax is the best player Saints have.
    Lomax not been in the team the last few weeks and we have looked better. If we lost walmsley or Knowles there would be a massive dip in team performance. Lomax has been a great player and amazing servant to the club but can anybody hand on heart say he is offering more than welsby or Dodd at the moment? A voice niggles away at the back of my head which thinks his experience may be beneficial in the playoffs but that would be the only reason I would bring him back. For me welsby is our best player and needs to play 80 min every week. He is an absolute phenomenon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    I think Lomax was the victim of Coote and Roby being off form in the first third of the season, everything was going through Lomax and the opposition were loading up on him.
    Just before he got injured Coote, Roby and Percival started to play well and that allowed Dodd and Welsby to settle in quickly as half backs.
    What we have now is the opposition have too many Saints players to think about….don’t think Lomax had that luxury, he was greatly overworked half way through the season.
    This is exactly right. Woolf stated that Lomax is the most marked player in SL. But a great position to be in for next year, with the opposition not knowing the ball is going to Lomax every time.

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    Welsby has just got to be in the halves. I was a little unsure on him at first but I don't think I've ever been more wrong about a player.

    Against Catalan he was superb and same again last night.

    If either had to go out for Lomax I'd move Dodd but I hope it stays as it is.

    Lomax had an "ok" season but the simple truth is we all wanted better attack and now we've got it but only since these two have been 6 & 7.

    Hopefully Mike Critchley can ask Woolf about it at some point and see if we get "Jonny will be straight back in". I fear that's the answer but I hope not. When you've got some momentum you've got to use it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseySaint View Post
    Welsby is the best 6 at the club.

    He has no weaknesses in his game and regularly unpicks defences with his heads up style of play and flexibility to respond to what's in front of him.

    Johnny is regularly marked out of the game from an attacking perspective because he only has two attacking plays; a miss out pass to the winger, which fails more often than it works out, and he steps inside off his right foot when he runs the ball, invariably into the 2 defenders waiting for him. His kicking game is average at best. He does give 100% every game and his defence is excellent.

    It's not Welsby's fault that he is a better 6 than a club legend. On the basis of the fluidity of saints attack when welsby plays in that position, and the stop start frustrating style when Johnny plays there, it's a no brainer for me. Jack Welsby starts at 6.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesSL View Post
    Welsby has just got to be in the halves. I was a little unsure on him at first but I don't think I've ever been more wrong about a player.

    Against Catalan he was superb and same again last night.

    If either had to go out for Lomax I'd move Dodd but I hope it stays as it is.

    Lomax had an "ok" season but the simple truth is we all wanted better attack and now we've got it but only since these two have been 6 & 7.

    Hopefully Mike Critchley can ask Woolf about it at some point and see if we get "Jonny will be straight back in". I fear that's the answer but I hope not. When you've got some momentum you've got to use it.
    I would leave Dodd were he is, we've got some extra set plays with him creating more attacking shapes. If fit Lomax will be in the 17 the same as Welsby, the only slight problem we might have is that all 3 could get into each others way competiting for ball in hand but thats for Woolf to manage with his players.

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