JB&B Leach Banner
Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 101 to 115 of 115

Thread: Lomax Welsby Dodd

  1. #101
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Newton-le-Willows; East Side of the Fence.
    Age
    49
    Posts
    12,561
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by St Nel View Post
    Can't believe some of what I'm reading here. As promising as they are (and I'm very very excited about them both), Welsby and Dodd have only played together against bottom of the table Leigh and a very average Leeds side. We looked great for bits against Catalan, but ultimately lost. The first thing I said after that defeat was I don't think we'd have lost had Lomax been playing.

    I remember watching us lose at Wigan on Good Friday, when Liam Farrell scored in the last seconds. That was the season Lomax was 7 and Gaskell was 6. Lomax put a grubber through trying to score rather than playing smart and kicking the ball out - people slated him for that and (rightly) pointed out that a seasoned half back would have seen that game out for us. The same applies here.

    We're heading into the important bit of the season, and that calls for big players. Lomax is still the best #6 in the league, and has won us countless close games over the past 3/4 years, he will do nicely for me
    Whilst I concur with your thoughts on experience, he isn't even the best 6 in the club right now.

    The harsh reality is that he's lost his zip. He isn't the player he was for us. Lomax is a good half in a style that involves using the halves in the middle third of the field, but we don't play that way under Woolf. The halves are pretty much starved of possession until the area close to the line. Without that ability to accelerate from standing still, Lomax is continually nullified.

    It is possible that we may not have lost against Catalans if Lomax had been playing, but I could equally counteract with the fact that we wouldn't have scored so many points either, so there is no definitive answer to this.

    I do tend to share the same concern about big match temperament, though, and that is why I can see the alternative view.

    In all honesty, perhaps Welsby and Lomax for this season's big games would be the sensible pairing, but this comes with risks and those risks are playing a partnership with no experience of playing together, and playing a player who has looked less than 100% right for a long time, without having played more than a game in a few weeks. Have we not learned the lessons of 2019, when playing players at Wembley based upon reputation and experience rather than form and fitness cost us dearly?

    As I said, if we lose, there will be blame attached to the half back combination, whatever it is, and people on here will be giving it large and getting abusive towards those that held the alternative view. That's actually why I'd have preferred there not to be a choice, and the same would apply for Fages, because undoubtedly there would be some clambering for him to be included instead of Jack Welsby because of his "experience".

    Ultimately, regardless of who you think is the best player, playing half backs who aren't match fit or match sharp in big games nearly always finds them out, and is one game in six weeks going to be enough to get him back up to speed? I'm just not seeing enough from the 2021 version of Jonny Lomax to make his selection justified as things stand.
    THIS YEAR LENDING SUPPORT TO:- St. Helens RLFC, Manchester City, Celtic, Alemannia Aachen, Borussia Dortmund, Preston North End, St. Helens Town, Steps 3 to 6 Non-League Football

  2. #102
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Newton-le-Willows; East Side of the Fence.
    Age
    49
    Posts
    12,561
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EddieVonEagle View Post
    I'd probably go with Welsby 7, Lomax 6 and Dodd 14 if all 3 are fit.

    Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
    I would absolutely imagine that this is what the coach will do.
    THIS YEAR LENDING SUPPORT TO:- St. Helens RLFC, Manchester City, Celtic, Alemannia Aachen, Borussia Dortmund, Preston North End, St. Helens Town, Steps 3 to 6 Non-League Football

  3. #103
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Age
    34
    Posts
    104
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post

    Jack Welsby does have that ability to step and break from standing still that Lomax no longer possesses. What is more, Welsby is still a little raw in defence and, if I remember, had a few questions asked about his ability to field the high kicks.
    Speaking of struggling when fielding the high ball, anybody else notice that at every single kick off against Leeds (and there were quite a few!) Welsby lined up in the winger position and TMak lined up in the HB position, so he could field the kick off before passing to the prop?

    Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

  4. #104
    Learning All The Songs roy litherland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Moss Bank
    Posts
    1,986
    Rep Power
    16

    Default

    Lomax is coming back after a nasty injury , off the bench for this one and certainly bring him into the game to see how it goes .
    roy litherland it's happened i told you it would

  5. #105
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,149
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Whilst I concur with your thoughts on experience, he isn't even the best 6 in the club right now.

    The harsh reality is that he's lost his zip. He isn't the player he was for us. Lomax is a good half in a style that involves using the halves in the middle third of the field, but we don't play that way under Woolf. The halves are pretty much starved of possession until the area close to the line. Without that ability to accelerate from standing still, Lomax is continually nullified.

    It is possible that we may not have lost against Catalans if Lomax had been playing, but I could equally counteract with the fact that we wouldn't have scored so many points either, so there is no definitive answer to this.

    I do tend to share the same concern about big match temperament, though, and that is why I can see the alternative view.

    In all honesty, perhaps Welsby and Lomax for this season's big games would be the sensible pairing, but this comes with risks and those risks are playing a partnership with no experience of playing together, and playing a player who has looked less than 100% right for a long time, without having played more than a game in a few weeks. Have we not learned the lessons of 2019, when playing players at Wembley based upon reputation and experience rather than form and fitness cost us dearly?

    As I said, if we lose, there will be blame attached to the half back combination, whatever it is, and people on here will be giving it large and getting abusive towards those that held the alternative view. That's actually why I'd have preferred there not to be a choice, and the same would apply for Fages, because undoubtedly there would be some clambering for him to be included instead of Jack Welsby because of his "experience".

    Ultimately, regardless of who you think is the best player, playing half backs who aren't match fit or match sharp in big games nearly always finds them out, and is one game in six weeks going to be enough to get him back up to speed? I'm just not seeing enough from the 2021 version of Jonny Lomax to make his selection justified as things stand.
    I agree wholeheartedly with this post. We have struggled terribly in attack for two years and both jonny and Theo have tto shoulder some of the blame for this. Our attack in the grand finalise last year was clunky and ineffective (albeit against a wigan side that defended well).

    We finally find a combination of players that has resulted in the attack flowing and we have scored a ton of points and I think we just got to run with it this season.

    Having Dodd on the left has added a left footed kicking game which we never had before. It adds tuncertainty in the last tackle. Welsby is first name on the team sheet at the moment as far as I am concerned.



    The last few games have been a breath of fresh air.

    Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk

  6. #106
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    155
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    From Woolfs comments yesterday it looks like Lomax and Dodd in the halves with Welsby somewhere else.

    He mentioned Jack being able to play a number of positions so I took that as he will be doing whilst he praised Dodd.

  7. #107
    In The South Stand Dux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Liverpool
    Posts
    4,785
    Rep Power
    23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesSL View Post
    From Woolfs comments yesterday it looks like Lomax and Dodd in the halves with Welsby somewhere else.

    He mentioned Jack being able to play a number of positions so I took that as he will be doing whilst he praised Dodd.
    Id say hes nailed on to be at full back, what with Coote being out.

  8. #108
    Got A Replica Shirt
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    In the kitchen, trying to remember what I came in here for
    Posts
    54
    Rep Power
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glasgowsaint View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly with this post. We have struggled terribly in attack for two years and both jonny and Theo have tto shoulder some of the blame for this. Our attack in the grand finalise last year was clunky and ineffective (albeit against a wigan side that defended well).

    We finally find a combination of players that has resulted in the attack flowing and we have scored a ton of points and I think we just got to run with it this season.

    Having Dodd on the left has added a left footed kicking game which we never had before. It adds tuncertainty in the last tackle. Welsby is first name on the team sheet at the moment as far as I am concerned.



    The last few games have been a breath of fresh air.

    Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk
    My heart is entirely with you on this, but my head says in a GF against seasoned campaigners like Moloney and Tompkins we need JL's experience. Him and Dodd in the halves to start with Welsby on the bench in case it's not working out seems to me to keep the maximum number of options open.

    Ps. I look forward to seeing a rejuvented JL next season, when he is not carrying the entire weight of the attack on his shoulders.

  9. #109
    In The West Stand The Wee Waa Womble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Harrogate
    Age
    30
    Posts
    6,307
    Rep Power
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DewiSant View Post
    My heart is entirely with you on this, but my head says in a GF against seasoned campaigners like Moloney and Tompkins we need JL's experience. Him and Dodd in the halves to start with Welsby on the bench in case it's not working out seems to me to keep the maximum number of options open.

    Ps. I look forward to seeing a rejuvented JL next season, when he is not carrying the entire weight of the attack on his shoulders.
    I do not think we would have given up the 18 point lead with Lomax on the field to steady the ship. On the other hand would we have been 18 points up in the first place? There is a balance to be struck but going into a play off then hopefully grand final you need the big game experience of Lomax. Having Welsby on the bench to cover 1-7 or come on at 13 with a license to roam in attack adds an extra dimension to the team.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

  10. #110
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Here, There, Everywhere
    Posts
    298
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    Good debate this and it's a good problem to have but must be a nightmare for Woolf and I imagine it's something playing on his mind. Throughout the season there were many calls for Dodd and then the Fages injury made the decision for him, it was easy and he didn't have to drop anyone. But now he is going to have to make a huge call.

    On the face of it, the thought of Lomax not being an automatic pick seems ridiculous and if someone said 6 weeks ago there'd be serious debate about whether he gets in a full strength Saints team I'd have laughed. Having said that, I do understand where people are coming from. We do look more dangerous, more fluent, less predictable with Dodd and Welsby there. It's exciting and they play with a level of freedom that we haven't seen much of under Woolf.

    However I just can't envisage a knock-out game in 3 weeks times and Jonny Lomax being dropped. It just feels wrong to me. Neither of Welsby or Dodd "deserve" to be dropped but neither of them have the experience, know-how and big game management that Lomax does. He's also defensively stronger than both, not that defence is a particular weakness of either of them.

    What Woolf does is probably going to be the hardest decision he's had as Saints coach. I genuinely haven't got a clue or an inkling as to what he will do but the most shocking and most unlikely call would be to not select Lomax, in my opinion.

    Just a thought as I am typing this, and I haven't read the entire thread so apologies if anyone else has asked this, but is Coote in danger? Could Welsby to 1 be an option? It's no more controversial than dropping Lomax which is being considered on here so why not Coote?
    I considered Coote in the equation before taking him out.

    For me, despite a poor start to the season he has really gotten into form and kicks (both in-game and goals). These factors made me think Coote at 1 is the only real certainty.

    I think Lomax's 2021 form as the season has gone on has dragged him into the debate. Although reading through the comments I do agree that he'll benefit from pace around him next season. Fages and Coote have been great servants but after 3 seasons and 3 years older the whole thing has slowed down.

    I'd also have someone who's played 1 in the last three years over someone who hasn't (Lomax).

  11. #111
    Learning All The Songs SaintJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,260
    Rep Power
    16

    Default

    Coote goes straight back into the squad, without a doubt. How he organises our defence is one of the main reasons it's been so good this year. I'm a bit baffled by some of the negativity he's been getting from fans which seems to have coincided with the announcement he is going to Hull KR.

  12. #112
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,149
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJon View Post
    Coote goes straight back into the squad, without a doubt. How he organises our defence is one of the main reasons it's been so good this year. I'm a bit baffled by some of the negativity he's been getting from fans which seems to have coincided with the announcement he is going to Hull KR.
    I agree. He had a few uncharacteristic mistakes but overall he brings a lot to the party.

    Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk

  13. #113
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    155
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    I think people were being negative towards Coote before the KR announcement to be honest.

    He started the season poorly. Poor errors, slow and offering little in attack.

    He has benefited from the pace of these two a well.

    I think the reality is Coote, Lomax and Fages wasn't quick enough and that made all 3 look worse than they actually are because defences had time.

    These two came into the halves and Coote automatically had more time and space.

    Hopefully be the same for Lomax next season.

  14. #114
    In The West Stand STIDDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Kingdom of Wigoon
    Posts
    5,805
    Rep Power
    14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesSL View Post
    I think people were being negative towards Coote before the KR announcement to be honest.

    He started the season poorly. Poor errors, slow and offering little in attack.

    He has benefited from the pace of these two a well.

    I think the reality is Coote, Lomax and Fages wasn't quick enough and that made all 3 look worse than they actually are because defences had time.

    These two came into the halves and Coote automatically had more time and space.

    Hopefully be the same for Lomax next season.
    Very true, Woolf was copping all the flack about our clunky attack when it was Coote and Roby not playing well and Percival got that injury. Full back and Hooker are very important pivots and you can't get away with below performances for any extensive period.

  15. #115
    Got A Season Ticket
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    155
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Very true, Woolf was copping all the flack about our clunky attack when it was Coote and Roby not playing well and Percival got that injury. Full back and Hooker are very important pivots and you can't get away with below performances for any extensive period.
    Yep. Roby has also improved in the last month or two. There was a spell he was running for 7 metres a game. His metres will be down now with his age but even just attempting to get out of dummy half, as he did a few times Friday, will give our halves more time.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •