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Thread: RU World 12ís

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    Default RU World 12ís

    Looks like RU are ahead of us again and are creating their own version of RL (of sorts!):

    Rugby Union: New World 12s tournament proposed to launch in August 2022 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/58476455


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Having £250m available to pump into something like on day one does help. Even if RL wanted to do something we just can't compete at that sort of level currently.

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    Well they couldn’t have 13 players could they. The scrums will be interesting since without flanker is becomes very unstable.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Well they couldn’t have 13 players could they. The scrums will be interesting since without flanker is becomes very unstable.
    I would think that RU played with 12 will be a pretty fast paced game. Something like 13 a side used to be,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Private Pyle View Post
    Having £250m available to pump into something like on day one does help. Even if RL wanted to do something we just can't compete at that sort of level currently.
    That must all be from outside sources. The article implies that World Rugby Union haven't officially sanctioned it yet.

    Could an idea like this lead to the occasionally discussed (dreaded?) hybrid version? There's nothing to stop a new organisation popping up and poaching the best players from both codes if they get the financial support and TV backing.

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    This will be the start of the end for RL. The RFL will do nothing to improve RL. RU 12s will poach our players and RL will fade back to amateur.
    Plus I think Rimmer etc will become the (paid) link between RL and RU merger.
    Humans are more concerned with having than being.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakariki View Post
    That must all be from outside sources. The article implies that World Rugby Union haven't officially sanctioned it yet.

    Could an idea like this lead to the occasionally discussed (dreaded?) hybrid version? There's nothing to stop a new organisation popping up and poaching the best players from both codes if they get the financial support and TV backing.
    Yeah it looks like it's a completely different set up, and you'd think that unless they get buy-in from World Rugby for players it'll be dead before it gets going. Seems a bit of a cricket/IPL rip-off.

    Not sure it'll be in the direction of the hybrid code you mention, all the rules they're using are RU ones. Only real difference looks to be six forwards and six backs, plus two 15 minute halves. More of a hybrid between RU and RU-7s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    This will be the start of the end for RL. The RFL will do nothing to improve RL. RU 12s will poach our players and RL will fade back to amateur.
    Plus I think Rimmer etc will become the (paid) link between RL and RU merger.
    bin listening to stuff like this for 65 years, just a gang of wanna be League players, never gone the whole hog with their rule changes now 12 aside, cant be accused of holding a candle up for league hell no.

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    I suppose it has been set up to compete with the NRL, northern hemisphere RU doesn’t need it, whereas Southern Hemisphere Club RU is struggling (especially in Australia) where it recently got less TV viewers than netball. Well good luck taking on the NRL.

    The issue for RU always has been how to make the game more of a spectacle without becoming RL, however if they can re-create a game similar to 1990s-2000s RL they will be on a winner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 49er View Post
    This will be the start of the end for RL. The RFL will do nothing to improve RL. RU 12s will poach our players and RL will fade back to amateur.
    Plus I think Rimmer etc will become the (paid) link between RL and RU merger.
    Any rugby league town would rather watch 13 sheep run round a field than a team under the RU umbrella. So in that respect there will never be an end

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Day View Post
    Any rugby league town would rather watch 13 sheep run round a field than a team under the RU umbrella. So in that respect there will never be an end
    Always be RL in amateur/ semi pro form.

    The pro game I wouldn't be so sure.

    Sky take their £24M and stick it into Rugby 12 or another team sport.
    Top RL clubs fold -the end.

    Franchises can be setup anywhere ?
    Nobody is obliged to setup an alternative to RL in St Helens.

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    Yawnion has also introduced the 50:22 and the goal line drop out.

    50:22 allows an attacking team to keep the ball for a line out if they kick from their own half and it bounces out beyond the defensive 22. The notion is it will keep defending wingers out wide to protect against this, thus creating space infield for the attacking players to utilise and be more creative.

    Goal line drop out is a curious one. Unlike ours, which is a reward for the attacking team holding the defence in their own in goal, their’s will be given if the attacking team is held up in goal, ergo a reward for the defence. Generally speaking, if an attacking team gets close to the try line it becomes a series of rucks and mauls with the aim to grind their way over and get the ball down but the notion with this is it will encourage the attack to throw the ball around more and be more creative.

    Or, in plain English, be more like league.


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    Quote Originally Posted by RedVee Admin View Post
    Yawnion has also introduced the 50:22 and the goal line drop out.

    50:22 allows an attacking team to keep the ball for a line out if they kick from their own half and it bounces out beyond the defensive 22. The notion is it will keep defending wingers out wide to protect against this, thus creating space infield for the attacking players to utilise and be more creative.

    Goal line drop out is a curious one. Unlike ours, which is a reward for the attacking team holding the defence in their own in goal, theirís will be given if the attacking team is held up in goal, ergo a reward for the defence. Generally speaking, if an attacking team gets close to the try line it becomes a series of rucks and mauls with the aim to grind their way over and get the ball down but the notion with this is it will encourage the attack to throw the ball around more and be more creative.

    Or, in plain English, be more like league.
    I hate the new rules. Cost us a bonus point try on Saturday having a player held up over the line and not being able to use our dominant scrum 5m out to get the try.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Interesting concept, however cricket is different to most other sports, the players who play in 'franchise cricket' be it the Twenty 20, the IPL, Big Blast, Caribbean Premier League and now The Hundred, the players sign contracts for themselves to make money - they're contracted to Lancashire, Yorkshire etc, but not in the same way players are contracted in Rugby or Football.

    I just don't see the Union clubs going for it. I'm not sure - but what are the big union clubs thoughts on releasing their players for the current exhibition events like 9s

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    To those (many on this site) who feel that winning trophies is the be-all and end-all of their involvement in RL and that the quality of the product comes a distant second, watch this space.
    Frankly, apart from the odd game, the current product is abysmal and is not competing with other sports in the modern era. Outdated ideas of RL being the greatest game are laughable.
    This concept of 12-a-side could yet be another big nail in the coffin of RL. To the doubters that it will not take off, we should remember that money talks and that players will always find a way to gravitate to bigger financial rewards.
    Now if the leaders of this new concept were brave enough to dispense with scrums and therefore get rid of the ponderous forwards who are a blight on the 15-a-side code, heaven help RL.
    In current conditions any young ambitious player in RL should be trying to find a spot in RU (those good enough are a diminishing breed) or go to the NRL (totally superior to our game in every way and therefore a much more difficult move to make).
    RL will have to change radically and quickly or undergo a long, slow death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Forber View Post
    To those (many on this site) who feel that winning trophies is the be-all and end-all of their involvement in RL and that the quality of the product comes a distant second, watch this space.
    Frankly, apart from the odd game, the current product is abysmal and is not competing with other sports in the modern era. Outdated ideas of RL being the greatest game are laughable.
    This concept of 12-a-side could yet be another big nail in the coffin of RL. To the doubters that it will not take off, we should remember that money talks and that players will always find a way to gravitate to bigger financial rewards.
    Now if the leaders of this new concept were brave enough to dispense with scrums and therefore get rid of the ponderous forwards who are a blight on the 15-a-side code, heaven help RL.
    In current conditions any young ambitious player in RL should be trying to find a spot in RU (those good enough are a diminishing breed) or go to the NRL (totally superior to our game in every way and therefore a much more difficult move to make).
    RL will have to change radically and quickly or undergo a long, slow death.
    Realistically, I don’t believe that many fans consider winning trophies be the be-all and end-all. Within Super League alone there will always be a minimum of 9 clubs that fail in that respect and yet they continue to be supported and exist year-on-year. What matters to the vast majority is that their club is competitive even if it generally wins nothing come the end of the season - just look at the number of fans that continued to support Saints between 1977 and 1995.

    As far as rugby union is concerned, you have failed to grasp the essence of the game if you genuinely believe that supporters of that game would welcome the removal of scrums or consider forwards to be “ponderous” and “a blight on the 15-a-side game”. If that was indeed the case, 7-a-side union would have taken over their world decades ago.

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    The above is quite right, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I've heard union fans jokingly call RL "Share" and "Your Turn Now" in response to kick and clap comments

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    As far as rugby union is concerned, you have failed to grasp the essence of the game if you genuinely believe that supporters of that game would welcome the removal of scrums or consider forwards to be ďponderousĒ and ďa blight on the 15-a-side gameĒ. If that was indeed the case, 7-a-side union would have taken over their world decades ago.
    But the Hundred is not aimed at cricket fans. There are cricket fans that like the subtleties and nuances of test match, however there will many be Hundred and IPL fans who dislike test cricket. If they keep the scrums et al then it wonít appeal to non-RU fans. Just as the slow nature of test cricket isnít for everyone neither are the countless scrum resets and constant upthejumper rolling mauls.

    So for this to succeed in bringing new people to the game it has to follow cricket and drop the complexity and make it more action packed. In other words move to a more RL type game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    But the Hundred is not aimed at cricket fans. There are cricket fans that like the subtleties and nuances of test match, however there will many be Hundred and IPL fans who dislike test cricket. If they keep the scrums et al then it won’t appeal to non-RU fans. Just as the slow nature of test cricket isn’t for everyone neither are the countless scrum resets and constant upthejumper rolling mauls.

    So for this to succeed in bringing new people to the game it has to follow cricket and drop the complexity and make it more action packed. In other words move to a more RL type game.
    I also think this is a threat to RL. it could end up being fast style attacking rugby league but with line outs to restart when the ball goes into to touch and releasing the ball in the tackle it could attract a lot of TV money and free to air tele time. we need to adapt or die as a professional sport. Winning trophies isn't the key, entertaining and making people want to watch is in my view

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    So rugby union 12's will start next year, with no players as yet signed up, no agreement with the IRB in place, as yet no fixture date or actual venues confirmed?

    Sorry but this doesn't sound realistic really does it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1973 View Post
    So rugby union 12's will start next year, with no players as yet signed up, no agreement with the IRB in place, as yet no fixture date or actual venues confirmed?

    Sorry but this doesn't sound realistic really does it?
    It's sounding more like Rugby League by the minute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    It's sounding more like Rugby League by the minute.
    Rugby League but with a multimillion pound backing, doesn't look too good really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tilly2006 View Post
    Rugby League but with a multimillion pound backing, doesn't look too good really.
    It could mean the two codes coming back together... with line outs and releasing the ball in the tackle I assume. If they scrap line outs it's not a massive change in some ways, and leaves more room on the pitch. It would be more like RL than current union is. Union has been moving more in our direction anyway for a few years. Its almost a natural evolution. A while ago another poster suggested that we drop the loose forward and go to 12 aside! It could be better than RL simply disappearing up its own ineffectual bum!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tilly2006 View Post
    Rugby League but with a multimillion pound backing, doesn't look too good really.
    I really wouldn't worry about it, no way the clubs and national unions will release their players for a further 3 fixtures plus training time

    This would affect summer tours for the European nations, the rugby championship for the southern hemisphere, plus would lead to issues with the lions and the world cup

    There simply isn't space in the union calendar for it and from what I can gather there is no real demand for it by union fans

    The IPL comparison doesn't stack up for me, there won't be a load of billionaires wanting to fund rugby 12 teams, plus ipl is a shortened version of the game for people who can't be bothered with 5 days of a test.

    Rugby is 80 minutes if anything you'll need to spend a full day watching this 12 tournament

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    It could mean the two codes coming back together... with line outs and releasing the ball in the tackle I assume. If they scrap line outs it's not a massive change in some ways, and leaves more room on the pitch. It would be more like RL than current union is. Union has been moving more in our direction anyway for a few years. Its almost a natural evolution. A while ago another poster suggested that we drop the loose forward and go to 12 aside! It could be better than RL simply disappearing up its own ineffectual bum!
    I'll say what I always say when this comes up: who would that benefit? I don't think many Saints fans would be interested in watching their team play 12-a-side Union-lite, and RU seems to be getting on okay without us.

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