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Thread: LLS Winners over the past 10 seasons

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    Learning All The Songs RJM25R's Avatar
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    Default LLS Winners over the past 10 seasons

    In the last ten years, there were only 3 occasions that the LLS winners went on to be crowned Grand Final winners (highlighted in CAPITALS)


    2011 LLS Wire GF Champions Leeds

    2012 LLS Wigan GF Champions Leeds

    2013 LLS Huddersfield GF Champions Wigan

    2014 LLS SAINTS GF Champions SAINTS

    2015 LLS LEEDS GF Champions LEEDS

    2016 LLS Wire GF Champions Wigan

    2017 LLS Castleford GF Champions Leeds

    2018 LLS Saints GF Champions Wigan

    2019 LLS SAINTS GF Champions SAINTS

    2020 LLS Wigan GF Champions Saints

    And this year?


    2021 LLS Catalans GF Champions ?

    To me Catalans have had their “Final” and historically, the odds are against them having another moment (or 4 minutes)again that they had on Saturday.
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    For me the LLS "Covid Years" has really devalued this bit of silverware. Its a big thing for Catalans and they deserve it but the Grand Final needs a completely different mindset which teams like Warrington cannot overcome.

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    I’ve always been a big fan of the league leaders shield and I value winning it quite highly, though it matters much less when you don’t push on and win the play-offs.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    I’ve always been a big fan of the league leaders shield and I value winning it quite highly, though it matters much less when you don’t push on and win the play-offs.
    Only because others don't value the LLS highly enough. They should bin that shield, get a cup, and the title League Champions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    I’ve always been a big fan of the league leaders shield and I value winning it quite highly, though it matters much less when you don’t push on and win the play-offs.
    I think that the LLS deserves much more respect. If the trophy was valued more it would give greater meaning (from the perspective of the top clubs) to the weekly rounds. The sad fact is that it isn’t in Sky’s interests to promote the LLS because that might then take some shine off the GF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Only because others don't value the LLS highly enough. They should bin that shield, get a cup, and the title League Champions.

    I agree with the League Champions title. However, isn’t the State of Origin trophy a wooden shield with silver winner’s shields?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    Only because others don't value the LLS highly enough. They should bin that shield, get a cup, and the title League Champions.
    Appreciate the sentiment, but you can't have both. Either we devalue the LLS by having the playoffs and Grand Final or we devalue the playoffs and Grand Final but having the League Champions title.

    This current playoff system is the worst one possible. You can go unbeaten all season, not concede a try and lose the semi final to a drop goal and not even make the final.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Appreciate the sentiment, but you can't have both. Either we devalue the LLS by having the playoffs and Grand Final or we devalue the playoffs and Grand Final but having the League Champions title.

    This current playoff system is the worst one possible. You can go unbeaten all season, not concede a try and lose the semi final to a drop goal and not even make the final.
    Agreed.

    The top five model giving a second bite to the Winner and home advantage for the 1 V 2 game at least gave a reward for coming first.

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    Just a thought ! how about the winner of the LLS going straight through to the grand final. make it a top 4 competition with second placed team having a week off . 3rd and 4th play each other and the winner then plays the second for a place in the grand final. The prestige of winning the shield and even the monetary gain does not seem to be enough of an incentive to finish top at the moment so maybe a guarantee of a place in the grand final will. To me there is more incentive to finish top then or even second and it would do away with this crazy situation of a team being absolute rubbish all year and just targeting the play offs. I personally don't want that of my own team, I understand no team can be at their best all year but we have seen it year after year were teams don't put in the effort weekly and are quite happy to take their chances at the knock out stage. I love my rugby league and want my team to be enthusiastic and focused every game and give their best to entertain us not just for the last 3 or 4 games of the year. We do get this with saints but quite a number of teams seem to just be ticking over most of the year with the excuse of building their season to peak at the right time, why should a team who have lost more games than they have won have a shot at the grand final ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dash Riprock View Post
    Just a thought ! how about the winner of the LLS going straight through to the grand final. make it a top 4 competition with second placed team having a week off . 3rd and 4th play each other and the winner then plays the second for a place in the grand final. The prestige of winning the shield and even the monetary gain does not seem to be enough of an incentive to finish top at the moment so maybe a guarantee of a place in the grand final will. To me there is more incentive to finish top then or even second and it would do away with this crazy situation of a team being absolute rubbish all year and just targeting the play offs. I personally don't want that of my own team, I understand no team can be at their best all year but we have seen it year after year were teams don't put in the effort weekly and are quite happy to take their chances at the knock out stage. I love my rugby league and want my team to be enthusiastic and focused every game and give their best to entertain us not just for the last 3 or 4 games of the year. We do get this with saints but quite a number of teams seem to just be ticking over most of the year with the excuse of building their season to peak at the right time, why should a team who have lost more games than they have won have a shot at the grand final ?
    In theory the LLS winner going straight through makes sense. But... we seem to play better when we play every week. A break doesn’t seem to do us a lot of good when schedules are not as crammed as now. I’m sure the same is true for other teams - there’s a danger in blunting game sharpness.

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    Hi Suttoner , I get what you are saying and I am all too aware that saints seem to struggle with a week off but the current format also means 1 and 2 get a week off so that would be no different. The challenge is to provide more of an incentive for finishing top or even high in the table. I have never played the game and cannot understand how playing weekly from February to September, you have a week off and all the timing goes to pot, if anything you would think it would be beneficial to have a rest. Possibly it is more of a mental issue than a physical issue, I just think it is all wrong when a team can coast all year put a run together and win the right to be called champions ala Leeds a few years ago who finished 5th but became champions. I know we have had Covid issues this year but I just hope the RFL can find a format that rewards consistency (not a Hubcap) throughout the whole season and then sticks with the format.

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    But doesn't your original suggestion mean that 1 gets two weeks off? If so it could work for a top 3 play-off, but I'm not sure that any team would want to go into a GF after two weeks off against a team that's won a tough game the week before just for the honour of the LLS. (I certainly wouldn't want it for Saints, and recall Millward saying he always preferred playing the week before the GF, even if it meant us having to play our 'get out of jail' card)

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    You are correct DewiSant, it would mean 2 weeks off for 1st place guess I did not think it through !!!!! I was trying to come up with something that would benefit 1st and 2nd. It would work for top 3 like you say but there is no way sky would go for that is there ? back to the drawing board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dash Riprock View Post
    You are correct DewiSant, it would mean 2 weeks off for 1st place guess I did not think it through !!!!! I was trying to come up with something that would benefit 1st and 2nd. It would work for top 3 like you say but there is no way sky would go for that is there ? back to the drawing board.
    Best way to reward 1st and 2nd is top 4 play offs.
    Week 1 - 1st v 2nd (winner straight through to GF)
    - 3rd v 4th (loser eliminated)
    Week 2 - Loser of 1st/2nd v Winner of 3rd/4th (winner through to grand final
    Week 3 - grand final
    There’s some sort of reward in there for every position higher you finish in the top 4
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    I agree with the League Champions title. However, isn’t the State of Origin trophy a wooden shield with silver winner’s shields?
    I have no idea what the SOO trophy is, but that is a stand alone competition nothing to do with the league, so a differebt scenario.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Appreciate the sentiment, but you can't have both. Either we devalue the LLS by having the playoffs and Grand Final or we devalue the playoffs and Grand Final but having the League Champions title.

    This current playoff system is the worst one possible. You can go unbeaten all season, not concede a try and lose the semi final to a drop goal and not even make the final.
    I could live with devaluing the GF. Pre SL we had a League Champions and a play off system. I forget the title of the play off winners.
    I agree about the play off system, if ever we rewarded mediocrity it was this and the top 8 system.
    The problem is Sky play the music and we dance to their song.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I have no idea what the SOO trophy is, but that is a stand alone competition nothing to do with the league, so a differebt scenario.



    I could live with devaluing the GF. Pre SL we had a League Champions and a play off system. I forget the title of the play off winners.
    I agree about the play off system, if ever we rewarded mediocrity it was this and the top 8 system.
    The problem is Sky play the music and we dance to their song.
    Yes it was the Premiership Trophy you are referring to.

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    The biggest problem with a top 6 or top 8 is that it drastically reduces the amount of intensity in the regular rounds, to finish in 5th or 6th place for the play offs you can lose about 10 games a season. That stat has been like that for at least the last 10 years and its come to a point that the first half of the season is like a load of friendlies and then when we get within the last 6 fixtures of the regular round it becomes a rush to get a play off spot.

    If we had a top 3, teams would have to contest the games with more intensity earlier, the downside is that you get dead rubber games at the back end of the season. Its really a choice of a quality games or mediocre games, the latter suits teams lower down the league to get a 5th or 6th spot.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinny NZ View Post
    Yes it was the Premiership Trophy you are referring to.
    That’s the one, but I would never have remembered the name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    I have no idea what the SOO trophy is, but that is a stand alone competition nothing to do with the league, so a differebt scenario.
    I was just wondering whether the shape/nature of the trophy matters. The Challenge Cup is the most impressive trophy but it has been devalued by Sky’s emphasis on the Grand Final. I personally think the GF trophy is naff but the competition has been built up to be the be all and end all so it’s what matters to the majority. If Sky placed more emphasis on winning the League the LLS would be more prestigious.

    I don’t watch tennis but I’m sure one of the Wimbledon trophies is a shield. It’s the prestige of the competition that matters and, in Rugby League, that’s dictated by Sky. Thinking about other sports, what sort of trophy is an alabaster urn allegedly containing some burnt cricket bails?

    P. S. A little urn at that, not to be confused with an Eric Morecambe line.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    I was just wondering whether the shape/nature of the trophy matters. The Challenge Cup is the most impressive trophy but it has been devalued by Sky’s emphasis on the Grand Final. I personally think the GF trophy is naff but the competition has been built up to be the be all and end all so it’s what matters to the majority. If Sky placed more emphasis on winning the League the LLS would be more prestigious.

    I don’t watch tennis but I’m sure one of the Wimbledon trophies is a shield. It’s the prestige of the competition that matters and, in Rugby League, that’s dictated by Sky. Thinking about other sports, what sort of trophy is an alabaster urn allegedly containing some burnt cricket bails?

    P. S. A little urn at that, not to be confused with an Eric Morecambe line.
    To a certain extent I agree with you about the shape, it’s just that when you have two awards for the same/overlapping competition, and one is cup and one a shield, then the shield competition is devalued. I agree that this has come about through Sky marketing and promotion.

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    I say it every season, award the old RL Championship trophy. Fantastic trophy held by all the greats.
    Wigan should never have been allowed to keep that for winning the last one in 1995.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Newlove View Post
    I say it every season, award the old RL Championship trophy. Fantastic trophy held by all the greats.
    Wigan should never have been allowed to keep that for winning the last one in 1995.
    They could easily weigh in the current shield and have a similar cup made. However, if Sky continue to downplay winning the League fans will do the same. I remember people on this board laughing at Cas for celebrating winning the Shield. It demeans the achievements of Huddersfield, Castleford and, dare I say it, Wire who have won the Shield but not the GF. It also gives too much credit to Leeds who, in the past, have played half heartedly and reserved energy for the play offs and GF?
    Last edited by Suttoner; 7th September 2021 at 13:02. Reason: “celebrating”

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    In a way it was saints that made other clubs devalue it when we won it 4 years on the trot, I still remember all other fans saying its a mickey mouse tropny (hence the "Hub Cap") and that it didn't mean anything and ignored the reward for consistency. Then suddenly Warrington and Huddersfield won it and it was the best thing since sliced bread, years later Castleford did the same.

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    Remember that time they put it on the helicopter?

    Yeah it was round about then that I stopped taking the LLS seriously.

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinkers89 View Post
    Remember that time they put it on the helicopter?

    Yeah it was round about then that I stopped taking the LLS seriously.
    Just one of the Sky farces.

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