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Thread: Spoilt Fanbase?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glasgowsaint View Post
    I really enjoyed their style of play so far.

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    I enjoy the fact that they’re beating Wigan yes. At their attacking best they are refreshing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    I enjoy the fact that they’re beating Wigan yes. At their attacking best they are refreshing.
    It is worrying for the sport as a whole that a team that plays an entertaining style is "refreshing"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glasgowsaint View Post
    It is worrying for the sport as a whole that a team that plays an entertaining style is "refreshing"

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    Why?

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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by saintgeorge View Post
    Why?
    Because entertainment means fans through the door. It means the game is more marketable to broadcasters and as a result financially viable. The latest sky deal is considerably lower than the previous one which will have an effect on the game as a whole.

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    It's an odd one. as someone who has watched Saints since the late 70's/early 80's today's team and achievements are the stuff of dreams. I'm not making any claims about being a "true fan" or anything like that, these days I only get to a couple of games a season, but I've watched some garbage and brilliant teams and performances over the years. The McManus years have been and continue to be fantastic.

  7. #32
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
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    There's not anything to get your teeth into when we win. This is the same for any club at any sport. In my defence, I was on holiday at the weekend, but we've only lost three times this season and it's pretty fair to say that I've been saying the same every week, not just after defeats.

    The game tonight sums up why there is a lot of frustration for me at the moment. Hull KR played rugby that's worth watching. Even Wigan did in patches. Nearly all games involve some passages of rugby and serve up some form of entertainment, except ours. The fact is (and it is a fact) that every other game that I watch is far more entertaining than any Saints game I have seen this season.

    I'd happily lose more games as a trade off for providing me with something worth watching. I'm not going to Wigan or Warrington, not because we might lose. I'm not going because I'm not wasting my money to watch the dreariest team in Super League. I've seen worse Saints teams but I've never felt less connection to the club. We simply don't play Rugby League anymore.
    THIS YEAR LENDING SUPPORT TO:- St. Helens RLFC, Manchester City, Celtic, Alemannia Aachen, Steps 1 to 6 Non-League Football

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    There's not anything to get your teeth into when we win. This is the same for any club at any sport. In my defence, I was on holiday at the weekend, but we've only lost three times this season and it's pretty fair to say that I've been saying the same every week, not just after defeats.

    The game tonight sums up why there is a lot of frustration for me at the moment. Hull KR played rugby that's worth watching. Even Wigan did in patches. Nearly all games involve some passages of rugby and serve up some form of entertainment, except ours. The fact is (and it is a fact) that every other game that I watch is far more entertaining than any Saints game I have seen this season.

    I'd happily lose more games as a trade off for providing me with something worth watching. I'm not going to Wigan or Warrington, not because we might lose. I'm not going because I'm not wasting my money to watch the dreariest team in Super League. I've seen worse Saints teams but I've never felt less connection to the club. We simply don't play Rugby League anymore.
    I thoroughly agree.

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  9. #34
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    Just a brief observation relating to the love in with Hull KR .... saints did beat them 25 0 earlier in the season.



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    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseySaint View Post
    Just a brief observation relating to the love in with Hull KR .... saints did beat them 25 0 earlier in the season.



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    It is not a love in. It is just recognising that they are playing an exciting brand of rugby at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Whilst I mostly agree with your comments, your opinions after a loss are alway more prevalent than after a win.
    That’s really because after a loss there is more to discuss. If we best someone 50-0, is there going to be much to say or chat through other than, “ the boys were immense? “.

    I’m happy to do that if it makes anyone feel better?

    My thoughts on Roby have been there week in week out for some time, but some weeks we get away with it. Same with my thoughts on Fage being not a half for me, or the fact Paasi for his size makes incredibly disappointing metres.

    The reality is, 85% of the time all we do is grind through the middle and our pack isn’t really that good at that. LMS is leaps above Matautia and Paasi which is a huge part of the problem these days. Christ Percy is just a forward at the minute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glasgowsaint View Post
    It is not a love in. It is just recognising that they are playing an exciting brand of rugby at the moment.

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    Only because they are allowed to for large parts of the game, for Saints itÂ’s completely different most teams know how to slow us down and spoil the advantage of quick play the ball.

    If everyone played like Hull KR then rugby league will be fine, the essence of their game is an off load down the middle and Warrington adopt something similar but you canÂ’t play like that in big games with a trophy at the end of it.

    Hull KR have a 50% success rate and no silverware to show for it, Saints play a bland pressure game with an 80% success rate and the silverware cabinet is full. Saints had a fairly lengthy spell one time of entertaining rugby and got fully tagged up as ‘always the bridesmaid never the bride”. Even that created a lot of frustration and everyone blamed the coach.

    ItÂ’s finding the right balance but Superleague is very poor at the moment to adopt a different brand of rugby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The.Reverand View Post
    That’s really because after a loss there is more to discuss. If we best someone 50-0, is there going to be much to say or chat through other than, “ the boys were immense? “.

    I’m happy to do that if it makes anyone feel better?

    My thoughts on Roby have been there week in week out for some time, but some weeks we get away with it. Same with my thoughts on Fage being not a half for me, or the fact Paasi for his size makes incredibly disappointing metres.

    The reality is, 85% of the time all we do is grind through the middle and our pack isn’t really that good at that. LMS is leaps above Matautia and Paasi which is a huge part of the problem these days. Christ Percy is just a forward at the minute.
    I agree. Add to that Lomax is a shadow of his former self and Coote isn't playing as well as he has played. I'm not sure Lees is up to the job of prop unless he can stop getting injured so frequently.

    We have a major rebuild to do and a rethink about how we play because we are the dullest team in a mediocre league.

    I'm happy to say nice things when we play well too. I hope I can write post apraising our sweeping attacks with the ball moving through five pairs of hands ending with a 40 yard sprint to score! I'm waiting for that with bated breath!

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    Another factor via the entertaining debate is at hooker the no 9.

    Parcell at Hull KR is one of the quickest hookers at the PTB our Roby is one of the slowest. That sticks out like a sore thumb when it comes to attacking with entertaining value.

    Top 3 for attacking stats in order:

    Dwyer…….Parcell………Clarke


    Bot 3 for attacking stats in order:

    Houghton……..Roby……….Powell

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    I've been following Saints since 1990 and the one thing we have in our locker is the ability to beat ourselves. This game was a prime example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    There's not anything to get your teeth into when we win. This is the same for any club at any sport. In my defence, I was on holiday at the weekend, but we've only lost three times this season and it's pretty fair to say that I've been saying the same every week, not just after defeats.

    The game tonight sums up why there is a lot of frustration for me at the moment. Hull KR played rugby that's worth watching. Even Wigan did in patches. Nearly all games involve some passages of rugby and serve up some form of entertainment, except ours. The fact is (and it is a fact) that every other game that I watch is far more entertaining than any Saints game I have seen this season.

    I'd happily lose more games as a trade off for providing me with something worth watching. I'm not going to Wigan or Warrington, not because we might lose. I'm not going because I'm not wasting my money to watch the dreariest team in Super League. I've seen worse Saints teams but I've never felt less connection to the club. We simply don't play Rugby League anymore.
    Totally agree.
    I should add that the overall standard of the Cas game was shocking. We have full time professional sportsmen who cannot catch the ball, play the ball or keep the ball.
    I am surprised that Sky continue to support RL and can fully understand why they are asking for changes. Their presentation mirrors the current standard of play and I fear they will put their money into more attractive products if the game does not change. There certainly won't be broadcasters queueing up to pick up RL if Sky pull out.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    There's not anything to get your teeth into when we win. This is the same for any club at any sport. In my defence, I was on holiday at the weekend, but we've only lost three times this season and it's pretty fair to say that I've been saying the same every week, not just after defeats.

    The game tonight sums up why there is a lot of frustration for me at the moment. Hull KR played rugby that's worth watching. Even Wigan did in patches. Nearly all games involve some passages of rugby and serve up some form of entertainment, except ours. The fact is (and it is a fact) that every other game that I watch is far more entertaining than any Saints game I have seen this season.

    I'd happily lose more games as a trade off for providing me with something worth watching. I'm not going to Wigan or Warrington, not because we might lose. I'm not going because I'm not wasting my money to watch the dreariest team in Super League. I've seen worse Saints teams but I've never felt less connection to the club. We simply don't play Rugby League anymore.
    Great post. The last two sentences say it all.

    In terms of debate there are plenty of things to discuss , reflect on and and share.
    Unfortunately a woolf style win provides little to discuss. There are so few phases of play.

  18. #43
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    This debate always reminds me of when Everton protested against Roberto Martinez and many held up banners like this.



    Lots of different factors at play but maybe a difference in attitude between a side that hasn't won a trophy in 25 years and a side that has won 26 trophies in 25 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RV12 View Post
    This debate always reminds me of when Everton protested against Roberto Martinez and many held up banners like this.



    Lots of different factors at play but maybe a difference in attitude between a side that hasn't won a trophy in 25 years and a side that has won 26 trophies in 25 years.
    I get that, but I think it also comes down to the budget/squad at the coach's disposal. If I were a Leigh or Salford fan I wouldn't grumble at playing it tight if it won us the odd game against Saints or Wigan that would keep me warm for months, but I think the players Woolf has are good enough to entertain and compete, and even if that meant we only one one pot every year or two I think I'd settle for it.

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    I get why people complain occasionally usually after a poor result because they care a lot and or have consumed too much of the falling down water but our faults are there for us all to see when we are challenged. My main concern is that when plan A does not work there is little or nothing and nobody on the park with the nouse to change things. I am hoping as Dodd gets more gametime and confidence that will change.

    I have noticed the issues around Robes at the moment.
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  21. #46
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    I do believe that the lack of a balanced opinion on the side/coach is coming from the minority. A view they are entitled to by the way.

    It would be a crazy world if everyone agreed with the 95% of the good people on the forum, who are reflective when we lose the odd game and consider the bigger picture in terms of winning as being the ultimate measure of success.

    This has nothing to do with the state of the game as a whole I'm purely considering my own team. The one that I have supported for approaching 50 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon Sexton View Post
    I've been following Saints since 1990 and the one thing we have in our locker is the ability to beat ourselves. This game was a prime example.
    That’s certainly the case with the 2 losses against Catalan and Castleford, our Warrington loss was more of a struggle with the enormous amount of injuries by the opposition when we were building momentum pressure

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    The main gripes that our small group have all revolve around the lack of variation in our tactics. We play a very simple game plan of sending one man with the ball down the middle 20yards of the pitch in the hope of getting a quick play the ball. When we are in our 20, we continue to run Percy, Tommy, Regan & Kevin straight at their waiting forwards to get smashed. If we know that's our tactics, then we can be sure that the opposition do. We had Cas pinned in their 20 on tackle 4 I think, they spun it wide through the hands & got to the half way line or so, we never even attempt that. When we are close to the opposition try line, it will be 5 forward drives, then a cut out pass to the winger, or if we are feeling frisky, a drop off pass for Percy or Kevin to get smashed by the waiting defenders. Boring & predictable. Yes, it sometimes works, but it's hardly entertaining stuff.
    Come back Sean Long, we desperately need you.
    I'm sick to the eye teeth of Woolf saying we were clunky, we are not clunky, we are clueless.
    One last thing, am I spoilt ? Yes I am, but I'm entitled to be, I'm a Saints fan.

  24. #49
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    I honestly don’t know how anyone can not notice just how boring our style is. Some people say its just a result of how super league is a grind these days. Not true. Super league hasn’t changed much in 2 years, yet in 2019 we were far more entertaining to watch. We played with good ball movement, bodies in motion off the ball, half backs coached to create space, and back rowers with strike who were actually made use of.
    I made a point yesterday that Rovers would score tries against Wigan far more entertaining than what we are capable of, and i reckon i was right. Stiddy made the point that we beat Rovers when we played them. So? What does that prove? It doesn’t prove that we play better rugby. We just have better players than they do.
    Our squad is capable of playing far better rugby than we currently do, without sacrificing win rates.

    Some of our fans (myself included) may be spoilt and negative. I reckon we’ve also got a few boot lickers frequenting this site too.
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2112_Saint View Post
    The main gripes that our small group have all revolve around the lack of variation in our tactics. We play a very simple game plan of sending one man with the ball down the middle 20yards of the pitch in the hope of getting a quick play the ball. When we are in our 20, we continue to run Percy, Tommy, Regan & Kevin straight at their waiting forwards to get smashed. If we know that's our tactics, then we can be sure that the opposition do. We had Cas pinned in their 20 on tackle 4 I think, they spun it wide through the hands & got to the half way line or so, we never even attempt that. When we are close to the opposition try line, it will be 5 forward drives, then a cut out pass to the winger, or if we are feeling frisky, a drop off pass for Percy or Kevin to get smashed by the waiting defenders. Boring & predictable. Yes, it sometimes works, but it's hardly entertaining stuff.
    Come back Sean Long, we desperately need you.
    I'm sick to the eye teeth of Woolf saying we were clunky, we are not clunky, we are clueless.
    One last thing, am I spoilt ? Yes I am, but I'm entitled to be, I'm a Saints fan.
    Hit the nail on the head. Good post

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