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Thread: Woolfy Out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    I am going to need a bigger boat, DC!

    LAM OUT!!!
    WATSON OUT!!!
    SOUTHGATE OUT!!!!

    I can see 2 of those being out of a job by August.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I can see 2 of those being out of a job by August.
    I can see Lam going swiftly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I can see 2 of those being out of a job by August.
    defo wane for lam watson for woolfe ������

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    I am going to need a bigger boat, DC!

    LAM OUT!!!
    WATSON OUT!!!
    SOUTHGATE OUT!!!!

    I want Lam to stay for a long time. Hes wonderful .

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    Oh I agree we can definitely do more. However it’s already been proved we’re getting a raw deal from the refs in terms teams laying on for extended periods to get their structure back. It’s hard for any side to break down a perfectly organised defensive structure and that’s what we’re always faced with

    I think Taia was a massive loss, he was like a prop running as an extra centre, very destructive and teams needed to account for him leaving space elsewhere. Our current second rows don’t challenge anyone

    Once we start winning some quick play the balls and increase the overall intensity I expect the tries to flow more readily. We’ve only really got Walmsley winning the contact, last few years we had him Taia, Thompson/Graham even Lees to a certain extent
    Again, I agree. I'm not saying it's a conspiracy theory against us but it's convenient that it's the one thing that's really effective against us, same as in 2008 when the game was slowed down. And yes, Taia is a massive loss, so's Peyroux to be honest when you look at the donkey that's replaced him.

    I don't know how we're supposed to get on a roll and get quick PTB but what I do know is one out rugby at set line and the predictable slide move isn't going to get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Div View Post
    I can see Lam going swiftly!
    Hopefully followed by Woolf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPA1975 View Post
    defo wane for lam watson for woolfe ������
    That works for me but we're going to have to pay for Watson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    That works for me but we're going to have to pay for Watson.
    But Watson is currently coaching a team with one of the worse attacks in Superleague, so I,m not too sure of the benefit, maybe he just looks a bit more friendly than Woolf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    But Watson is currently coaching a team with one of the worse attacks in Superleague, so I,m not too sure of the benefit, maybe he just looks a bit more friendly than Woolf.
    To be honest mate, knows. I don't know if he'd do any better or not but I'm sick of Woolf and to be honest sick of RL in general at the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    To be honest mate, •••• knows. I don't know if he'd do any better or not but I'm sick of Woolf and to be honest sick of RL in general at the moment.
    totally agreed rl in our country in a massive bloody mess but love the difference of a opinion on redvee shows the passion of all the fans 15 years been reading all very insightful and entertaining long may it continue in these very weary times !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    To be honest mate, knows. I don't know if he'd do any better or not but I'm sick of Woolf and to be honest sick of RL in general at the moment.
    2112-Saint used You are aware that RL is supposed to be something to be enjoyed & not endured aren't you ? I feel like Im enduring too much of it at the moment. His/her words jumped off the page at me because they summarise the way Im feeling and have been feeling for a while.

    Its been mentioned by loads of posters on numerous threads but I dont think the powers that be have cottoned on.

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    So the three teams who had a week off all lost.

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    I'm not advocating saints get rid of Woolf and would prefer he was reminded of the remit for Saints teams to entertain. If he isn't here ext year though what's everyone's thoughts on Tony Smith as a replacement?

    His teams generally play open attacking rugby, he's won it all (SL, LLS, CC, & WCC) although not at the same time, as well as always coming across as a decent affable guy who buys into the teams and towns he's representing.

    I think he's probably on a long contract at Hull KR, as he's got them playing above where they should be, but he seems to tick all the boxes. Is there something from back in the day I've forgotten as he doesn't seem to have been mentioned by anyone?

    I'm not the greatest statto and only really remember him at Warrington where I think they challenged and won stuff under him but were inconsistent. That s not really different to how they are now so might not be a fair reflection on him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guns86 View Post
    I'm not advocating saints get rid of Woolf and would prefer he was reminded of the remit for Saints teams to entertain. If he isn't here ext year though what's everyone's thoughts on Tony Smith as a replacement?

    His teams generally play open attacking rugby, he's won it all (SL, LLS, CC, & WCC) although not at the same time, as well as always coming across as a decent affable guy who buys into the teams and towns he's representing.

    I think he's probably on a long contract at Hull KR, as he's got them playing above where they should be, but he seems to tick all the boxes. Is there something from back in the day I've forgotten as he doesn't seem to have been mentioned by anyone?

    I'm not the greatest statto and only really remember him at Warrington where I think they challenged and won stuff under him but were inconsistent. That s not really different to how they are now so might not be a fair reflection on him.

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    He is one Aussie that won't be going home after a couple of years. Out of what may be available in SL we could do a lot worse.

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    I think Tony Smith would be a good fit at Saints. It is becoming obvious that there is going to be a rebuilding process in place, possibly for at least 2 seasons. Look at what Smith has done at his other clubs. At Hull KR last season he took a brave decision to play with flair and attacking rugby with a relatively small sized pack. He was to a certain degree laughed at by some pundits. He persisted this season and the results ,although early loses, were a lot closer, now his team are on a decent run. So here is a coach, who given time, has taken a yoyo team in terms of relegation and promotion, and turned them into an entertaining team who are winning games. Okay Hull KR may not win many trophies, but given the extra resources we should be able to provide, he probably would. After a slow start at Huddersfield, he certainly turned things around in his career so far, at Leeds and Warrington and now seems to be doing the same with KR. As already mentioned he is one Aussie who is not likely to go running back home.
    Loyal and true, not a glory hunter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guns86 View Post
    I'm not advocating saints get rid of Woolf and would prefer he was reminded of the remit for Saints teams to entertain. If he isn't here ext year though what's everyone's thoughts on Tony Smith as a replacement?

    His teams generally play open attacking rugby, he's won it all (SL, LLS, CC, & WCC) although not at the same time, as well as always coming across as a decent affable guy who buys into the teams and towns he's representing.

    I think he's probably on a long contract at Hull KR, as he's got them playing above where they should be, but he seems to tick all the boxes. Is there something from back in the day I've forgotten as he doesn't seem to have been mentioned by anyone?

    I'm not the greatest statto and only really remember him at Warrington where I think they challenged and won stuff under him but were inconsistent. That s not really different to how they are now so might not be a fair reflection on him.

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    Not a terrible suggestion I don’t think. Smith also clearly knows how to beat the pie eaters ��

    I don’t like to criticise Woolf because regardless of what you say, he has done exactly what was asked of him and that is to win things.

    A couple of weeks ago most on here was praising the performance (1st half at least) vs Hull, now we lose again by only 4 points vs a rival and not exactly bottom of the league and now we have threads created like this.

    People bang on about wanting entertainment and so on, but I’m yet to meet a fan that is happy with his team losing consistently because they play good rugby. I’m more than happy to bet most of what I own that those saying that would soon resort to some sort of backtrack and a call for stability just to get us some wins.

    We have had the luxury of being able to have a blend of both style and substance historically and in recent years, but you can’t expect that year after year after year.

    For as bad as some think Woolf is, is anyone willing to write us off going all the way again this year?

    I am not enjoying our attack at present like most, but given the success we have had and are continuing to have I think thread titled like this are a pretty embarrassing reflection on a clubs fan base and suggest that maybe we don’t appreciate how lucky we are to have had all the success we’ve had.

    I don’t know what others on here do for a job, but if you’d had the results Woolf had in your first twelve months then got sacked a 3rd or so into your next year having again done what he’s done I think you’d be pretty ed off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A.O.88 View Post
    Not a terrible suggestion I dont think. Smith also clearly knows how to beat the pie eaters ��

    I dont like to criticise Woolf because regardless of what you say, he has done exactly what was asked of him and that is to win things.

    A couple of weeks ago most on here was praising the performance (1st half at least) vs Hull, now we lose again by only 4 points vs a rival and not exactly bottom of the league and now we have threads created like this.

    People bang on about wanting entertainment and so on, but Im yet to meet a fan that is happy with his team losing consistently because they play good rugby. Im more than happy to bet most of what I own that those saying that would soon resort to some sort of backtrack and a call for stability just to get us some wins.

    We have had the luxury of being able to have a blend of both style and substance historically and in recent years, but you cant expect that year after year after year.

    For as bad as some think Woolf is, is anyone willing to write us off going all the way again this year?

    I am not enjoying our attack at present like most, but given the success we have had and are continuing to have I think thread titled like this are a pretty embarrassing reflection on a clubs fan base and suggest that maybe we dont appreciate how lucky we are to have had all the success weve had.

    I dont know what others on here do for a job, but if youd had the results Woolf had in your first twelve months then got sacked a 3rd or so into your next year having again done what hes done I think youd be pretty ed off.
    I think what frustrates a lot of fans, certainly myself, is that we have no plan B. Plan A is clearly to grind out results and that will be good enough to win 80% of games. Problem is when we have an off day or come up a against a well organised defence we dont look likely to break them down. Its in these tight games where a clever kick in the opposition 20, a couple of offloads to get us on the front foot or going wide earlier in the tackle count to stretch the defence might make the difference but we just dont seem to try. I refuse to believe we dont have the ability to do any of these things it absolutely has to be the coached style of play. This is not knee jerk, certainly in terms of creativity in the halves we have been lacking for years and it especially shows in big games.

    Im not calling for Woolf to be sacked, I just dont think hes getting the best out of these players at the moment and Id like to see that change.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    I think what frustrates a lot of fans, certainly myself, is that we have no plan B. Plan A is clearly to grind out results and that will be good enough to win 80% of games. Problem is when we have an off day or come up a against a well organised defence we don’t look likely to break them down. It’s in these tight games where a clever kick in the opposition 20, a couple of offloads to get us on the front foot or going wide earlier in the tackle count to stretch the defence might make the difference but we just don’t seem to try. I refuse to believe we don’t have the ability to do any of these things it absolutely has to be the coached style of play. This is not knee jerk, certainly in terms of creativity in the halves we have been lacking for years and it especially shows in big games.

    I’m not calling for Woolf to be sacked, I just don’t think he’s getting the best out of these players at the moment and I’d like to see that change.

    All fair enough points.

    I am also not saying we should love everything we see and not hope for better.

    I just don’t want us to become some football type of club that sacks successful managers for a few wobbles. Woolf is only on a two year deal, not like it’s 4 or 5 so after what he’s done I think he at least deserves to see that out.

    I’ve even seen some say we was lucky last year to win it, so what if we was? Luck tends to balance itself out and I’ll take being lucky over unlucky everyday of the week.

    I also think many seem to forgotten what we accepted at the start of the season that other clubs have strengthened, maybe better than us but these kind of things happen. John Bateman is still expected to be given more time to adjust to being back in super league, our new lads who are playing in the league for the first time are being questioned/written off week after week because they are not doing what the guys before them did after being with us for several years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    2112-Saint used “You are aware that RL is supposed to be something to be enjoyed & not endured aren't you ?” I feel like I’m enduring too much of it at the moment. His/her words jumped off the page at me because they summarise the way I’m feeling and have been feeling for a while.

    It’s been mentioned by loads of posters on numerous threads but I don’t think the powers that be have cottoned on.
    Very much so, a lot of malaise and its generic source lies at the RL doors. If you just scour all the superleague club forums everyone is saying the same on how the style of the game has become robotic and less adventurous. There are a couple of clubs usually the past and present successful ones which Saints is one of them will blame the coach more when in reality the game is so slow, spoiled and strangled its just not appealing anymore.

    The RFL have always wanted to remove the top 4 club trophy scenario, they have tried that with the salary cap restrictions. Now they have tinkered with the rules favouring a more defensive stucture, all this has done is strangled creative play which has reduced the standard of the top clubs towards the lower clubs when it should be the other way round.

    We will occaisionally get some exciting games. (Hull v Saints semi final) but these are few and far between this season, the RFL needs to wake up they are sleep walking into spectators passing in the night. and leaving the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    Oh I agree we can definitely do more. However its already been proved were getting a raw deal from the refs in terms teams laying on for extended periods to get their structure back. Its hard for any side to break down a perfectly organised defensive structure and thats what were always faced with

    I think Taia was a massive loss, he was like a prop running as an extra centre, very destructive and teams needed to account for him leaving space elsewhere. Our current second rows dont challenge anyone

    Once we start winning some quick play the balls and increase the overall intensity I expect the tries to flow more readily. Weve only really got Walmsley winning the contact, last few years we had him Taia, Thompson/Graham even Lees to a certain extent
    Yes, but the way that the game is being officiated, there aren't going to be many fast PTB's that's the point, the Wire game is the current standard set by the refs & the RFL , can you not see that ? The cup semis were refereed differently with less lying on allowed & a better 10m applied. Everyone remarked how much faster the games were. The league isn't being refereed that way, hence the current dissatisfaction with RL. It needs the RFL to instruct refs to open the games up, otherwise coaches will continue to drag the better teams into a slog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    2112-Saint used You are aware that RL is supposed to be something to be enjoyed & not endured aren't you ? I feel like Im enduring too much of it at the moment. His/her words jumped off the page at me because they summarise the way Im feeling and have been feeling for a while.

    Its been mentioned by loads of posters on numerous threads but I dont think the powers that be have cottoned on.
    I lost count of the amount of times that Kendall said "Don't go early" to the players on both teams.

    Here is an idea to stop players doing that, f**king penalise them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Very much so, a lot of malaise and its generic source lies at the RL doors. If you just scour all the superleague club forums everyone is saying the same on how the style of the game has become robotic and less adventurous. There are a couple of clubs usually the past and present successful ones which Saints is one of them will blame the coach more when in reality the game is so slow, spoiled and strangled its just not appealing anymore.

    The RFL have always wanted to remove the top 4 club trophy scenario, they have tried that with the salary cap restrictions. Now they have tinkered with the rules favouring a more defensive stucture, all this has done is strangled creative play which has reduced the standard of the top clubs towards the lower clubs when it should be the other way round.

    We will occaisionally get some exciting games. (Hull v Saints semi final) but these are few and far between this season, the RFL needs to wake up they are sleep walking into spectators passing in the night. and leaving the game.
    Correct Stiddy, that is the truth of the game currently. People need to wake up to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaVenRouge View Post
    I lost count of the amount of times that Kendall said "Don't go early" to the players on both teams.

    Here is an idea to stop players doing that, f**king penalise them.
    You are too radical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2112_Saint View Post
    Yes, but the way that the game is being officiated, there aren't going to be many fast PTB's that's the point, the Wire game is the current standard set by the refs & the RFL , can you not see that ? The cup semis were refereed differently with less lying on allowed & a better 10m applied. Everyone remarked how much faster the games were. The league isn't being refereed that way, hence the current dissatisfaction with RL. It needs the RFL to instruct refs to open the games up, otherwise coaches will continue to drag the better teams into a slog.
    Another good point made there. We have far too much interaction between the ref and players, sometimes its a Pow Wow commitee meeting and fans don't want to see that. Last season we saw the creeping of the refs coaching the players when teams are defending, we also this season seeing the last man coming off the tackle looking up at the ref in an appeal manner to stay on the tackle for a couple of seconds more.

    This interaction is taking its toll on ruck speed and allowing set defences to prepare their line speed to be consistent on every set. Our worse player is LMS but he isn't the worse that one is reserved for Connor, it seems as though its creeping into our game more and more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A.O.88 View Post
    Not a terrible suggestion I dont think. Smith also clearly knows how to beat the pie eaters ��

    I dont like to criticise Woolf because regardless of what you say, he has done exactly what was asked of him and that is to win things.

    A couple of weeks ago most on here was praising the performance (1st half at least) vs Hull, now we lose again by only 4 points vs a rival and not exactly bottom of the league and now we have threads created like this.

    People bang on about wanting entertainment and so on, but Im yet to meet a fan that is happy with his team losing consistently because they play good rugby. Im more than happy to bet most of what I own that those saying that would soon resort to some sort of backtrack and a call for stability just to get us some wins.

    We have had the luxury of being able to have a blend of both style and substance historically and in recent years, but you cant expect that year after year after year.

    For as bad as some think Woolf is, is anyone willing to write us off going all the way again this year?

    I am not enjoying our attack at present like most, but given the success we have had and are continuing to have I think thread titled like this are a pretty embarrassing reflection on a clubs fan base and suggest that maybe we dont appreciate how lucky we are to have had all the success weve had.

    I dont know what others on here do for a job, but if youd had the results Woolf had in your first twelve months then got sacked a 3rd or so into your next year having again done what hes done I think youd be pretty ed off.
    I agree with what you say and said myself that I'm not advocating getting rid of him. It's more a talking point on a potential next coach bacause as far as we're aware Woolf's future is still up in the air. It could be we're waiting until after the CC final if that's the goal he's been given for the year.

    Someone has said before that 80%+ of teams in the league would switch places with us in an instant. I think what's trying to be said across many threads is that it's possible to have style and substance; the two aren't mutually exclusive. Ignoring that the RFL have tweaked the rules to bring us to the defensive borefest we regularly see now as that's out of Saints direct control.

    There should be a game plan for playing against each team or style of team rather than one single game plan for every game in the season without deviation. We've seen the team is capable of stylish attacking play under Woolf (post-Lockdown last year and for a couple of matches or spells in matches this year). So the question is why this isn't consistent and if it is coming from the coach then a change needs to occur (at the end of the year not mid-season).

    He shouldn't be sacked for losing by 4 points to wire in a nothing league game. It's the overall trajectory of team that he should be judged on. Not just results but the manner of those results.

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