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Thread: Transfer Rumours - All in Here

  1. #1301
    In The South Stand Noel Cleal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    How serious should we take the Jordan Abdull rumours?? I’ve nothing against the lad. He shows some classy ball touches but where do you play him? He’s a big lump of a half back. Doesn’t look to have much pace but plays good at the line. He reminds me of Richard Whiting. Too slow to be a back and not big, strong enough to be a quality forward, yet always seems to make things happen around him. A decent rugby brain.
    None what so ever. He has a new 3 year deal with Hull KR

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-league/57060855

    We were apparently interested. I would assume as a 13 who could cover the halves. He is more like Paul Cooke than Whiting (who on a side note is 6 '4 and 16 stone so definitely big enough to be a forward)
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    How serious should we take the Jordan Abdull rumours?? I’ve nothing against the lad. He shows some classy ball touches but where do you play him? He’s a big lump of a half back. Doesn’t look to have much pace but plays good at the line. He reminds me of Richard Whiting. Too slow to be a back and not big, strong enough to be a quality forward, yet always seems to make things happen around him. A decent rugby brain.
    I always preferred countdown when he presented it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    None what so ever. He has a new 3 year deal with Hull KR

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-league/57060855

    We were apparently interested. I would assume as a 13 who could cover the halves. He is more like Paul Cooke than Whiting (who on a side note is 6 '4 and 16 stone so definitely big enough to be a forward)
    Yes thats true. I know Whiting played a different position i just meant he’s similar in that he’s got a decent rugby brain without being much of a physical specimen.
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noel Cleal View Post
    https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport...22/?ref=twtrec

    https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport...o-fages-place/

    Yes two articles from Mike Critchley saying Welsby at 1, Dodd at 7 next season.

    A good message to send after re-signing the coach. A firm vote for our promising youth players
    Saints showing plenty of confidence in Welsby and Dodd then! If I understood Woolf correctly, he has said the club won't be signing a full back or a half. What happens if Welsby or Dodd get injured? This is rugby league after all. I know if Hopoate comes in as expected, he can play full back. And Welsby can play in the halves.

    1.Welsby, 6.Lomax, 7.Dodd, 9. Roby, 14.Smith. Is there enough spark there? Going to be a big onus on Welsby, Dodd, Smith to run the ball, provide zip & strike. All three largely untested at SL level in said positions. Will Saints look for a new interchange hooker/utility?

    New rumour suggesting Leeds are in for Austin- https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ngton-21179407

    It's not all about the pivots of course, but rivals are looking strong in there with blend of experience and strike.

    Warrington:
    1. Ratchford/Ashton
    6. Williams
    7. Widdop
    9. Clark
    14. Walker

    Wigan
    1. French
    6. Field
    7. Smith
    9. Powell
    14. ?

    Leeds
    1. Myler
    6. Austin *possibly
    7. Sezer
    9. Leeming
    14. Dwyer

    Catalan
    1. Tomkins
    6. Maloney
    7. Drinkwater
    9. McIlorum
    14. Mourgue
    Last edited by Mike Stephenson; 30th July 2021 at 00:22.
    *Not to be confused with Mike Stephenson, MBE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    Saints showing plenty of confidence in Welsby and Dodd then! If I understood Woolf correctly, he has said the club won't be signing a full back or a half. What happens if Welsby or Dodd get injured? This is rugby league after all. I know if Hopoate comes in as expected, he can play full back. And Welsby can play in the halves.

    1.Welsby, 6.Lomax, 7.Dodd, 9. Roby, 14.Smith. Is there enough spark there? Going to be a big onus on Welsby, Dodd, Smith to run the ball, provide zip & strike. All three largely untested at SL level in said positions. Will Saints look for a new interchange hooker/utility?

    New rumour suggesting Leeds are in for Austin- https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ngton-21179407

    It's not all about the pivots of course, but rivals are looking strong in there with blend of experience and strike.

    Warrington:
    1. Ratchford/Ashton
    6. Williams
    7. Widdop
    9. Clark
    14. Walker

    Wigan
    1. French
    6. Field
    7. Smith
    9. Powell
    14. ?

    Leeds
    1. Myler
    6. Austin *possibly
    7. Sezer
    9. Leeming
    14. Dwyer

    Catalan
    1. Tomkins
    6. Maloney
    7. Drinkwater
    9. McIlorum
    14. Mourgue
    On paper other teams pivots do look strong, bully for them. We’re going into next season with a mixture of unbelievable quality/experience and unbelievable potential, I’ll take our all academy pivots over the overpaid, injury prone, mercenary mix and match other clubs have.

    It may seem like a blinkered opinion and it might be, however, I genuinely don’t believe our pivots next season will be a downgrade in an attacking sense next year given how limited creatively Coote and Fages are. They are very effective in the system we play and obviously much better defensively but they certainly don’t have any ‘spark’. I’ll back our pack and three quarters to put us in the play offs even if our pivots crash and burn.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    Saints showing plenty of confidence in Welsby and Dodd then! If I understood Woolf correctly, he has said the club won't be signing a full back or a half. What happens if Welsby or Dodd get injured? This is rugby league after all. I know if Hopoate comes in as expected, he can play full back. And Welsby can play in the halves.

    1.Welsby, 6.Lomax, 7.Dodd, 9. Roby, 14.Smith. Is there enough spark there? Going to be a big onus on Welsby, Dodd, Smith to run the ball, provide zip & strike. All three largely untested at SL level in said positions. Will Saints look for a new interchange hooker/utility?

    New rumour suggesting Leeds are in for Austin- https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ngton-21179407

    It's not all about the pivots of course, but rivals are looking strong in there with blend of experience and strike.

    Warrington:
    1. Ratchford/Ashton
    6. Williams
    7. Widdop
    9. Clark
    14. Walker

    Wigan
    1. French
    6. Field
    7. Smith
    9. Powell
    14. ?

    Leeds
    1. Myler
    6. Austin *possibly
    7. Sezer
    9. Leeming
    14. Dwyer

    Catalan
    1. Tomkins
    6. Maloney
    7. Drinkwater
    9. McIlorum
    14. Mourgue
    I know FB is a position more exposed than probably any other but Welsby has had 50 SL games and has been solid for the last 30. While I would have liked to see him have a season at centre, I don't think he is that much of a risk. I expect they will be working with hime pre season on Positioning, and peppering him with high balls with players running at him. One thing about him he has a natural awareness and ball skills. I think he may be under a bit of pressure his first half dozen games, but I would expect him to make the position his own after that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    Saints showing plenty of confidence in Welsby and Dodd then! If I understood Woolf correctly, he has said the club won't be signing a full back or a half. What happens if Welsby or Dodd get injured? This is rugby league after all. I know if Hopoate comes in as expected, he can play full back. And Welsby can play in the halves.

    1.Welsby, 6.Lomax, 7.Dodd, 9. Roby, 14.Smith. Is there enough spark there? Going to be a big onus on Welsby, Dodd, Smith to run the ball, provide zip & strike. All three largely untested at SL level in said positions. Will Saints look for a new interchange hooker/utility?

    New rumour suggesting Leeds are in for Austin- https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ngton-21179407

    It's not all about the pivots of course, but rivals are looking strong in there with blend of experience and strike.

    Warrington:
    1. Ratchford/Ashton
    6. Williams
    7. Widdop
    9. Clark
    14. Walker

    Wigan
    1. French
    6. Field
    7. Smith
    9. Powell
    14. ?

    Leeds
    1. Myler
    6. Austin *possibly
    7. Sezer
    9. Leeming
    14. Dwyer

    Catalan
    1. Tomkins
    6. Maloney
    7. Drinkwater
    9. McIlorum
    14. Mourgue
    The only spines I fear out of them are Leeds and Catalans.

    Smith for wigan is utterly terrible. Now Im no coach but im pretty sure the pre requisite for playing SH is being able to pass a ball. My 7 year old daughter can pass a rugby ball better than Smith. As for Warrington, well, it seems Williams is their latest in a long line of great white hopes to win them SL. He has gone there for the money, nothing else as Warrington were rumoured to be paying him double what Wigan offered. To me, hes another luxury player that Warrington just love to have. Their pack isnt good enough and you could have Adam Reynolds playing for you but if your pack is getting whalloped, your half backs have no chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    But I dont think Saints are effectively paying for former reputation/ NRL label. Hes a damn sight better than all but maybe 3 of the centres currently in the competition - even doing a bad job in the NRL is better than all but maybe Percival, King and Whare would achieve in Hopoates position. Further, Woolf has worked with him before (and may think he may even think he can get him playing better than Bulldogs currently are) - we are paying for a known quantity - which is something Simm isn't. Further he fits in a niche that we need of also being able to cover fullback in a pinch - how does the value proposition of signing Ryan Brierly and Junior Sau compare to do the same job (at probably the same cost)?

    Putting that aside for a second, even if you assume those on here are right, and Hopoate is awful. Simm still needs to perform, and keep performing to keep his place. Woolf has shown in the past hes willing to keep the kids coming through if they deserve it, so its entirely possible by signing Hopoate we get a better Simm next year anyway (whose to say hes one of those who get the starting jersey and then coast - we have had more than a few over the years).

    All in all, I just dont see how going with Simm represents a better option. Signing a "backup" centre/ fullback is likely to have cost just as much, and going with just Simm leaves us 1 injury away from a crisis at all times. Either he comes over here and rips it up like Naiqama did when he first came over, or he crashes, and its on Simm to take his place and keep the shirt, whilst Hopoate covers injuries (like Joel Thompson at the moment) - which is a bit of a win win.
    Do you watch the NRL ?
    Hopoate hasn't been playing well for years. In his younger days he had a bit of pace but thats long gone, he would be probably the slowest centre in SL. Add to that his defence is awful, other NRL players just seem to walk past him these days. This guy would be a truly awful signing for Saints.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    1.Welsby, 6.Lomax, 7.Dodd, 9. Roby, 14.Smith. Is there enough spark there? Going to be a big onus on Welsby, Dodd, Smith to run the ball, provide zip & strike. All three largely untested at SL level in said positions. Will Saints look for a new interchange hooker/utility?
    I take it by untested your only talking in terms of number of 1st team games played ?
    Welsby has GF winners ring and a CC winners medal and Smith has a GF winners ring - how much more testing do you need than having played in major finals and won ? There's plenty of other FB's and hookers in SL who have never been tested in a major final

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Toppy View Post
    Do you watch the NRL ?
    Hopoate hasn't been playing well for years. In his younger days he had a bit of pace but thats long gone, he would be probably the slowest centre in SL. Add to that his defence is awful, other NRL players just seem to walk past him these days. This guy would be a truly awful signing for Saints.
    Totally agree with this there are better centres going round in SL as I’ve said on another thread Jake Wardle at Hudds is worth a punt going to be a very good player and has got his best years in front of him reminds me of a young Lee Gilmore

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Toppy View Post
    Do you watch the NRL ?
    Hopoate hasn't been playing well for years. In his younger days he had a bit of pace but thats long gone, he would be probably the slowest centre in SL. Add to that his defence is awful, other NRL players just seem to walk past him these days. This guy would be a truly awful signing for Saints.
    Yes, I do watch the NRL, it sounds like you dont and just have been suckered in by Bulldog fans complaining/scapegoating. Let me put it another way; Super League and NRL are two different competitions - we have seen NRL superstars come over and flop, and Super League no marks go over and be a superstar (see Josh Hodgson). Whilst I am confident he can come over and have a similar impact as Naiqama, as he comes over in a similar position (with similar complaints about his game), but even if he doesnt, the other things in my post still mean he adds value to the team.

    Also, lets be honest, it would hardly be the first time fans on here have called signings "awful" only to turn in to shrewd, sensible signings.

    Quote Originally Posted by BbrookTM View Post
    Totally agree with this there are better centres going round in SL as I’ve said on another thread Jake Wardle at Hudds is worth a punt going to be a very good player and has got his best years in front of him reminds me of a young Lee Gilmore
    Okay I will go along; Say we sign Jake Wardle - do we let him go in a couple of years? Do we let Simm go because Wardle is our long term centre? Wheres the development planning for Simm coming through? Who do we sign as a fullback for cover? Are you offering to cover the transfer fee as hes not out of contract? Also, judging by his highlights, Wardle is a left sided centre, so we fall into the same problem we have had this year - do you move Percival and blunt his effectiveness? Do you hope that Wardle will adapt?

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    There's not many SL three quarters that are good enough to play in the NRL, the fact that Hopoate still does means that he's better than most if not all in SL. He just needs to be 100% committed to playing well here

    Ryan Hall and Kallum Watkins were/are 'top tier' in SL but both were massive failures down under

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Yes, I do watch the NRL, it sounds like you dont and just have been suckered in by Bulldog fans complaining/scapegoating. Let me put it another way; Super League and NRL are two different competitions - we have seen NRL superstars come over and flop, and Super League no marks go over and be a superstar (see Josh Hodgson). Whilst I am confident he can come over and have a similar impact as Naiqama, as he comes over in a similar position (with similar complaints about his game), but even if he doesnt, the other things in my post still mean he adds value to the team.

    Also, lets be honest, it would hardly be the first time fans on here have called signings "awful" only to turn in to shrewd, sensible signings.



    Okay I will go along; Say we sign Jake Wardle - do we let him go in a couple of years? Do we let Simm go because Wardle is our long term centre? Wheres the development planning for Simm coming through? Who do we sign as a fullback for cover? Are you offering to cover the transfer fee as hes not out of contract? Also, judging by his highlights, Wardle is a left sided centre, so we fall into the same problem we have had this year - do you move Percival and blunt his effectiveness? Do you hope that Wardle will adapt?
    Also, lets be honest, it would hardly be the first time fans on here have called signings "awful" only to turn in to just that.

    All the development path arguments regarding Simm you put forward if signing Wardle equally apply to Hopoate.

    There must be better right side centre options that Hopoate. Even if he could operate at a KN level. That's an expensive way
    to get someone to take tackle 2/3 on exit sets.

    Saints had to offload Paulo at a price , dodged a bullet with Thompson, and are now sleepwalking into the same situation with Hopoate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    Also, lets be honest, it would hardly be the first time fans on here have called signings "awful" only to turn in to just that.

    All the development path arguments regarding Simm you put forward if signing Wardle equally apply to Hopoate.

    There must be better right side centre options that Hopoate. Even if he could operate at a KN level. That's an expensive way
    to get someone to take tackle 2/3 on exit sets.

    Saints had to offload Paulo at a price , dodged a bullet with Thompson, and are now sleepwalking into the same situation with Hopoate.
    But the development path argument for Wardle doesn’t apply to Hopoate. In 2/3 years Wardle is 24/25, and coming into his prime, Hopoate is 32/33 and retiring. It is far easier to move Hopoate on in that time period than it is Wardle, and the time frame for Simm needs to prove he’s the right replacement/ won’t go the way of Ste Tyrer.

    As for “expensive” for someone taking exit sets- no more so than what we’re currently paying for. It won’t be Hopoates fault if the team continues to only attack down the left; that would be Wellens as he coaches the attack.

    The only other centre who fits the bill that I can think of is Konrad Hurrell, but he still doesn’t give you cover at fullback which we would also need as well. I saw Zac Lomax might be available, and that would instantly top trump in my opinion, but if he is, I imagine he will almost definitely stay in the NRL.

    He might turn into a Paulo/ Thompson, he might turn into Naiqama/Taia. The ultimate problem is NRL performance is no indicator of which way it will go - unfortunately all we definitively know is Woolf has worked with him before so must be confident in what he’s getting. I personally don’t think he will be a huge revelation, just an evolution of what we currently have, but that’s better than the alternates

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Yes, I do watch the NRL, it sounds like you dont and just have been suckered in by Bulldog fans complaining/scapegoating. Let me put it another way; Super League and NRL are two different competitions - we have seen NRL superstars come over and flop, and Super League no marks go over and be a superstar (see Josh Hodgson). Whilst I am confident he can come over and have a similar impact as Naiqama, as he comes over in a similar position (with similar complaints about his game), but even if he doesnt, the other things in my post still mean he adds value to the team.

    Also, lets be honest, it would hardly be the first time fans on here have called signings "awful" only to turn in to shrewd, sensible signings.
    For a so called 'strike' centre his record is poor, he's managed just 24 Try's in his entire 6 years time at the Doggies (118 games), with a whopping 1 Try and 2 Try assists in 2021 so far. He was no better last season managing just 2 Try's and 2 Try assists the entire season. Compare that to Naiquama's NRL strike record who played 113 NRL games and scored 51 Try's before coming to Saints.
    If you want him as a FB then he has no kicking game either. Despite playing games at FB he hasn't put in a single kick in general play since 2019.

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    I don't think we can fall into the trap of relying on all our young players to fill the voids in the squadm there's needs to be a good balance between promoting from within and external recruitment to give us balance across the squad. Coote, Naiqama and Fages are leaving and two of those spots are being filled by two youngsters who have arguably been earmarked for those positions for a few years. Welsby is ready to play and whilst Dodd hadn't featured much it's clear Saints see him as a very bright prospect hence tying him up long term. Simm had only signed a short term deal which suggests were not sure yet and he'll need a bit more time to continue his gradual development. It therefore makes sense to line up a Centre for a couple of years.

    I'd like some cover for FB / Halves / Hooker aswel which is why the links to someone like Nu Brown make sense.

    After that I suppose it depends who leaves but it's clear we need a back rower to replace Bentley / Thompson and we probably need another forward aswell (prop maybe).

    I think 4 signings would be about right depending on how many leave. Striking the balance is key.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blobbynator View Post
    I don't think we can fall into the trap of relying on all our young players to fill the voids in the squadm there's needs to be a good balance between promoting from within and external recruitment to give us balance across the squad. Coote, Naiqama and Fages are leaving and two of those spots are being filled by two youngsters who have arguably been earmarked for those positions for a few years. Welsby is ready to play and whilst Dodd hadn't featured much it's clear Saints see him as a very bright prospect hence tying him up long term. Simm had only signed a short term deal which suggests were not sure yet and he'll need a bit more time to continue his gradual development. It therefore makes sense to line up a Centre for a couple of years.

    I'd like some cover for FB / Halves / Hooker aswel which is why the links to someone like Nu Brown make sense.

    After that I suppose it depends who leaves but it's clear we need a back rower to replace Bentley / Thompson and we probably need another forward aswell (prop maybe).

    I think 4 signings would be about right depending on how many leave. Striking the balance is key.
    I also think we need to add some quality in with those signings. Just covering positions isn't the only aim.

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    Comparing a centre to a forward from the NRL is some straw clutching. Hopoate will largely go how Naiqama has. Good but not sensational.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Comparing a centre to a forward from the NRL is some straw clutching. Hopoate will largely go how Naiqama has. Good but not sensational.
    I think this is fair and it got me thinking who was the last top class right centre we had? Since Gidley 10 years ago we've tried Michael Shenton, Jordan Turner, Ryan Morgan, Kevin Naiqama and none of them have set the world alight. It's almost like we accept that Percival is our main man and the other centre isn't as important.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Toppy View Post
    I take it by untested your only talking in terms of number of 1st team games played ?
    Welsby has GF winners ring and a CC winners medal and Smith has a GF winners ring - how much more testing do you need than having played in major finals and won ? There's plenty of other FB's and hookers in SL who have never been tested in a major final
    I'm talking about their experience of playing in jerseys 1, 7 and 14 respectively, Saint Toppy. They've all played in the first team, but not too many times in these key positions. *I do think the utility will be really important to Saints with Roby being 36 next season.

    If Coote stays fit, Welsby isn't going to get much game time at full back until next year. Dodd now has the rest of the season to start in the halves and I note KW has said he has a 'terrific running game', so he now has a chance to show it at SL level. Smith may well also benefit from Fages' injury and take a spot on the interchange.

    Your other point about Hopoate is one I have made too, in terms of his record. Stats don't look great in terms of providing strike, so this just adds to the pressure on the pivots. KN had a similar record at Wests to what he has produced at Saints, with a try ~ every other game. Has to be factored in as well, Percival's struggles to stay fit. Saints do need to sign at least one back but trouble is not that many strike centres around or available. Hopoate is durable at least and won't be involved in much controversy off the field.

    For me Saints don't have an issue getting field position, it's being able to break teams down and make something happen when camped on the try line and when plan A isn't working. All of this means lots of pressure on the pivots as I say.
    *Not to be confused with Mike Stephenson, MBE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    I also think we need to add some quality in with those signings. Just covering positions isn't the only aim.
    Absolutely, quality over quantity any day. If we can add players that will enhance and balance the squad that's the main thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    I also think we need to add some quality in with those signings. Just covering positions isn't the only aim.
    I agree, let's get some players with skill and speed into the team not just people who could fill a few positions.

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    If i remember rightly Simm had a very good try scoring record in the Academy , are Saints going to let him fade away to bring someone in from Abroad .

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    NRL players are like buying strawberries from ASDA not long left on their shelf life and soon go bad.

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    In The South Stand Noel Cleal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    If i remember rightly Simm had a very good try scoring record in the Academy , are Saints going to let him fade away to bring someone in from Abroad .
    I think there is a big difference between allowing Simm to fade away and slapping a 4 on his back after 9 first team games and say "go on lad play 30 games this year, don't f*** it up, because we don't have anyone else".

    Simm is probably going to be first choice backup in the backing next year while probably means 10 to 15 games depending in injuries. For a 20/21 year old lad that is a decent amount of games. That being said if he out plays the lads with 3 or 4 on their backs he can play more. It's up to him.
    I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong.

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