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Thread: Transfer Rumours - All in Here

  1. #251
    Banned Gerry Mander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post

    I don't actually think he'll be here in SL next year, so this is all hypothetical, but I'd rather have a box-office attacker at FB than a steady plodder.
    I'm in Webbo's camp.

    Couple of Pasty points.

    Makinson Lomax and Welsby could play FB. Leaving aside the need to recruit either a winger or standoff.
    All could cover for a period but Makinson is not a ball player. Welsby doens't have the gas and Lomax doesn't have the legs or gas.

    Talk of second rate aussies coming over. No disrespect but that tag could be applied to Coote if the yardstick is current standard NRL fullback.
    I think Coote is a great footballer and does all of Lomax's kicking but he his not a line breaking running threat.

    There is a need for a 9 , question marks over understudies , and nobody bar Parcell and Hood is available.
    That is a big problem. However it is not solved by not having pace at full back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    I'm in Webbo's camp.

    Couple of Pasty points.

    Makinson Lomax and Welsby could play FB. Leaving aside the need to recruit either a winger or standoff.
    All could cover for a period but Makinson is not a ball player. Welsby doens't have the gas and Lomax doesn't have the legs or gas.

    Talk of second rate aussies coming over. No disrespect but that tag could be applied to Coote if the yardstick is current standard NRL fullback.
    I think Coote is a great footballer and does all of Lomax's kicking but he his not a line breaking running threat.

    There is a need for a 9 , question marks over understudies , and nobody bar Parcell and Hood is available.
    That is a big problem. However it is not solved by not having pace at full back.
    Thanks Gerry, all excellent Pasty points, please pop down to Cornwall to collect your prize: one free extra large vegan spiced parsnip pasty!

    Seriously, Im sure you're right, but I still don't want a makeshift player who just sees us a stepping stone. There is enough of that going on for me

    PS other types of pasty are available

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    Thanks Gerry, all excellent Pasty points, please pop down to Cornwall to collect your prize: one free extra large vegan spiced parsnip pasty!

    Seriously, Im sure you're right, but I still don't want a makeshift player who just sees us a stepping stone. There is enough of that going on for me

    PS other types of pasty are available
    Cheers. I understand your view and get your concern.
    A late 2018 Barba would be more damaging than the status quo.

    I think your Roby worry is a big big issue and one that the club will try to solve by just rolling him around for another year.

    Spicy Parnsip sounds fantastic. Could just go one of those now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    Cheers. I understand your view and get your concern.
    A late 2018 Barba would be more damaging than the status quo.

    I think your Roby worry is a big big issue and one that the club will try to solve by just rolling him around for another year.

    Spicy Parnsip sounds fantastic. Could just go one of those now.
    They are good it’s true. So are many overseas super star recruits as well. Meninga comes to mind but even he played off and on

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    I am going to throw another inexperiened player in , i have just watched the highlights of Saints defeat to Wigan and the lad who was at hooker for Saints Pemberton i think his name is looked good , Roby was 17 when he came in .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    I am going to throw another inexperiened player in , i have just watched the highlights of Saints defeat to Wigan and the lad who was at hooker for Saints Pemberton i think his name is looked good , Roby was 17 when he came in .
    Thats Taylor Pemberton a bit of a stand out in the scholarship, like everyone else Covid Season stopped his development.

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    Well going of that it looks as if it as started again.

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    If Saints go with Welsby at 1 & Dodd at 7, who is the competition and/or cover for those spots? Also, the reality is that both are not deemed good enough at the moment to be first choice in those positions. So as I say, it would be a surprise to me given Saints will have cap space, if they go this way next year. One yes, but not both for two of the most important positions on the field.
    Listen Stevo, you are as bad as your supposed hero, Saints will not be spending a lot of money next season on an Aussie full back, cap space or not. We have been battered by the losses due to covid, so forget cap space will you ?
    What is the point of us investing so much money in developing players like Welsby, Simm & Dodd if we then leave them kicking their heels and pass them over. Saints have complete faith in Welsby & Dodd certainly to step up next season. We are paying Dodd in particular a lot of money so he needs to start earning it.
    For the last time, we will not be signing Dufty or any other Aussie full back no matter how much cap space we have.No matter how many times you drag up something to justify it.
    Now just go back to asking to see the chip over the top or for Saints to get the link going or whatever rubbish you aspire to follow .

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2112_Saint View Post
    If Saints go with Welsby at 1 & Dodd at 7, who is the competition and/or cover for those spots? Also, the reality is that both are not deemed good enough at the moment to be first choice in those positions. So as I say, it would be a surprise to me given Saints will have cap space, if they go this way next year. One yes, but not both for two of the most important positions on the field.
    Listen Stevo, you are as bad as your supposed hero, Saints will not be spending a lot of money next season on an Aussie full back, cap space or not. We have been battered by the losses due to covid, so forget cap space will you ?
    What is the point of us investing so much money in developing players like Welsby, Simm & Dodd if we then leave them kicking their heels and pass them over. Saints have complete faith in Welsby & Dodd certainly to step up next season. We are paying Dodd in particular a lot of money so he needs to start earning it.
    For the last time, we will not be signing Dufty or any other Aussie full back no matter how much cap space we have.No matter how many times you drag up something to justify it.
    Now just go back to asking to see the chip over the top or for Saints to get the link going or whatever rubbish you aspire to follow .
    Finances are certainly tight since covid and getting tighter with TV monies.

    That would also suggest the need to free up Coote 's salary in addition to KevN
    and promote some more academy players (or domestic recruits)
    to backfill and supplement Dodd/Welsby.

    If Coote or an alternative overseas FBs are on similar money.
    Then the argument to keep Coote and reject overseas replacements on a financial rationale is a bit odd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    Finances are certainly tight since covid and getting tighter with TV monies.

    That would also suggest the need to free up Coote 's salary in addition to KevN
    and promote some more academy players (or domestic recruits)
    to backfill and supplement Dodd/Welsby.

    If Coote or an alternative overseas FBs are on similar money.
    Then the argument to keep Coote and reject overseas replacements on a financial rationale is a bit odd.
    I see what you mean, and that could be the case, Coote may not be that expensive, don't forget he was going to retire from professional RL prior to us signing him, I really have zero knowledge of his pay, except that he is worth it !

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2112_Saint View Post
    I see what you mean, and that could be the case, Coote may not be that expensive, don't forget he was going to retire from professional RL prior to us signing him, I really have zero knowledge of his pay, except that he is worth it !
    He didn't come for Bus fare but probably not on Blake Austin monopoly money either.
    I think there will be some movement on signings shortly after the semi regardless of result.

    Personally I hope Josh Simm gets a decent crack at KevN's centre spot next year.
    Glad the King thing didn't materialse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    He didn't come for Bus fare but probably not on Blake Austin monopoly money either.
    I think there will be some movement on signings shortly after the semi regardless of result.

    Personally I hope Josh Simm gets a decent crack at KevN's centre spot next year.
    Glad the King thing didn't materialse.
    I'm sure you are right 're Coote. I hope that all our youngsters get a go next year, nothing better, provided they get the support they deserve when they make errors which they undoubtedly will. I totally agree 're King, I don't think we were ever in for him in a serious way

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    Starting A Programme Collection Roger Moore's Avatar
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    If we win a 3rd Grand Final I think we may go with the "kids". A spell of rebuilding and keeping costs down to cover the loses. Even if that s the case I think what we have would still have enough for top 6 at least if not top 4.
    Loyal and true, not a glory hunter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Moore View Post
    If we win a 3rd Grand Final I think we may go with the "kids". A spell of rebuilding and keeping costs down to cover the loses. Even if that s the case I think what we have would still have enough for top 6 at least if not top 4.
    This my thinking too. Give the younger players a go next season and accept it as a period of rebuilding when we might not win anything. The season after that could be back to trophy winning ways but even next season we would be top four or five

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    I don't like the idea of us ever accepting we won't win something to be honest. We should always be in contention and it's the job of McManus, Rush and whoever the coach is it at the time to manage transitions so that we are never going into a season thinking top 5 or 6 would be OK.

    That might sound like I'm being a spoilt brat but I just can't accept that sort of mentality from a club like ours. I don't expect us to win something every year, don't get me wrong, but I expect us to be fighting on all fronts every year.
    NEVER WRITE OFF THE SAINTS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Moore View Post
    If we win a 3rd Grand Final I think we may go with the "kids". A spell of rebuilding and keeping costs down to cover the loses. Even if that s the case I think what we have would still have enough for top 6 at least if not top 4.
    If Superleague Clubs have to tighten their purse strings and rely on "home grown" talent I would still have Saints in the top 4 at least. The likes of Wingfield and Foster are good enough now to be in the back row working with Knowles, I don't think we need to worry about Dodd and Welsby but I get the feeling if Sambou develops further he could be challenging Simm. What would give us a big boost is if Norman and Eaves can step up to become effective Superleague players.

    On transitions I think there is only Saints who have managed the process and yet stayed competitive to challenge for silverware. The likes of Bradford, Wigoon, Leeds, Hull and Wire have spells at mid table level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    If Superleague Clubs have to tighten their purse strings and rely on "home grown" talent I would still have Saints in the top 4 at least. The likes of Wingfield and Foster are good enough now to be in the back row working with Knowles, I don't think we need to worry about Dodd and Welsby but I get the feeling if Sambou develops further he could be challenging Simm. What would give us a big boost is if Norman and Eaves can step up to become effective Superleague players.

    On transitions I think there is only Saints who have managed the process and yet stayed competitive to challenge for silverware. The likes of Bradford, Wigoon, Leeds, Hull and Wire have spells at mid table level.
    Well said

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Yellow Giraffe View Post
    I don't like the idea of us ever accepting we won't win something to be honest. We should always be in contention and it's the job of McManus, Rush and whoever the coach is it at the time to manage transitions so that we are never going into a season thinking top 5 or 6 would be OK.

    That might sound like I'm being a spoilt brat but I just can't accept that sort of mentality from a club like ours. I don't expect us to win something every year, don't get me wrong, but I expect us to be fighting on all fronts every year.
    I think we could rely on home grown talent and still be competitive but all young players need time to adjust and can be inconsistent during that period. We have a plethora of good young players

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    If Superleague Clubs have to tighten their purse strings and rely on "home grown" talent I would still have Saints in the top 4 at least. The likes of Wingfield and Foster are good enough now to be in the back row working with Knowles, I don't think we need to worry about Dodd and Welsby but I get the feeling if Sambou develops further he could be challenging Simm. What would give us a big boost is if Norman and Eaves can step up to become effective Superleague players.

    On transitions I think there is only Saints who have managed the process and yet stayed competitive to challenge for silverware. The likes of Bradford, Wigoon, Leeds, Hull and Wire have spells at mid table level.
    Academy and Championship/project players will be hugely important.

    Saints are experiencing some change due to the cyclical nature of the cap.
    However we shouldn't lose sight of the fact Covid and TV deal are league wide problems ,
    all clubs will feel the same squeeze at the same time. Everyone will deploy more youth.

    I think there is a bit of perception hangover from post 2006 when Saints were going to use kids to replace stars.

    The difference was that Wheeler and Foster &Co were overhyped, other clubs still spent big,
    the remaining senior pros like Wilkin were not going to carry a team and what Overseas players
    we did sign were shocking.

    This is a different time. We still need to sign some players who they are will be interesting.

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    Stiddy & TYG above are both correct, I cannot imagine for one minute McManus & Rush accepting what would amount to mediocrity for Saints. We have the resources already at the club to be challenging for all honours next season, regardless of overseas players or Theo leaving.. I think that Woof has done a good job with involving our developing talent without throwing them in at the deep end as the pies seem to do. I can see Woof being here next season & Robes going around one last time but with a greatly reduced workload, Smith & Eaves to come in. I don't think anyone knows what will happen with Bentley, Wingfield & Foster can slug that one out with Thompson. KN will depart, Simm, or as above Sambou maybe to get the centre role. Dodd to 7, Welsby to FB. It's certainly a risk going with the youngsters but we've a lot of investment tied up in them already to let it go to waste.
    I really don't see us signing any NRL players.

  21. #271
    Learning All The Songs Mike Stephenson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2112_Saint View Post
    If Saints go with Welsby at 1 & Dodd at 7, who is the competition and/or cover for those spots? Also, the reality is that both are not deemed good enough at the moment to be first choice in those positions. So as I say, it would be a surprise to me given Saints will have cap space, if they go this way next year. One yes, but not both for two of the most important positions on the field.
    Listen Stevo, you are as bad as your supposed hero, Saints will not be spending a lot of money next season on an Aussie full back, cap space or not. We have been battered by the losses due to covid, so forget cap space will you ?
    What is the point of us investing so much money in developing players like Welsby, Simm & Dodd if we then leave them kicking their heels and pass them over. Saints have complete faith in Welsby & Dodd certainly to step up next season. We are paying Dodd in particular a lot of money so he needs to start earning it.
    For the last time, we will not be signing Dufty or any other Aussie full back no matter how much cap space we have.No matter how many times you drag up something to justify it.
    Now just go back to asking to see the chip over the top or for Saints to get the link going or whatever rubbish you aspire to follow .
    Yet within the past month, Saints have publicly said they want both Coote and Fages to stay for 2022. This could be spin from the club of course, but that could also be an indication they don't feel both are ready to be relied upon for those key spots.

    Then if you look at the first team squad/the 30 man list (https://www.saintsrlfc.com/teams/first-team/); after Dodd, there's no other halves on the list. After Welsby, there's one player listed as being a full back. Again, players can be promoted to the senior squad for next year but it's a big jump to be having to cover and be competition for the first choice 17. I can see others have said Makinson etc. can cover full back so on and so forth, but Gerry has highlighted the issues with that already.

    So all of the above is why I think Saints will go in to the market for at least one of the positions if indeed Fages and/or Coote go as rumoured. I've outlined previously how I would manage this, as you know. I have no connections to the club and these are just my thoughts. You could be right on how you see it and you may well have some info from within the club. Time will tell over these next few months.

    Finally, I will comment when you resort to name calling and childish remarks within your posts, you lose a lot of your credibility and embarrass yourself. Have I attempted to insult or disrespect you in anyway? No, I'm better than that. Perhaps take a leaf out of my book in that regard.
    *Not to be confused with Mike Stephenson, MBE

  22. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    Academy and Championship/project players will be hugely important.

    Saints are experiencing some change due to the cyclical nature of the cap.
    However we shouldn't lose sight of the fact Covid and TV deal are league wide problems ,
    all clubs will feel the same squeeze at the same time. Everyone will deploy more youth.

    I think there is a bit of perception hangover from post 2006 when Saints were going to use kids to replace stars.

    The difference was that Wheeler and Foster &Co were overhyped, other clubs still spent big,
    the remaining senior pros like Wilkin were not going to carry a team and what Overseas players
    we did sign were shocking.

    This is a different time. We still need to sign some players who they are will be interesting.

    Some great recent comments in this thread from knowledgeable posters making good points

    I think this one especially hits nails on heads.

    I do think if Coote & Fages leave we'll bring in at least one high-profile HB or FB. Bentley going we can more than cope with.

    And the competition overall is less strong these days.

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    Just the 5 try assists so far for Dufty vs Brisbane but hE's NoT gOoD eNoUgH fOr SaInTs

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    Anyone who thinks Dufty isn’t good enough is an absolute clown, he’d instantly be one of the best players in Super League.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Euroboy View Post
    Just the 5 try assists so far for Dufty vs Brisbane but hE's NoT gOoD eNoUgH fOr SaInTs
    He's having a stormer.

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