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Thread: Transfer Rumours - All in Here

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    If unvaccinated players aren’t allowed to play in France then that definitely matters.
    To who? To spectators? To clubs? I still don’t get the point made. Should we kick the french teams out? Should we protest and field weakened teams travelling to france?
    Personally, i think every super league club should forfeit the 2 points and have a weeks rest gifting the french. Lets see if catalans feel that in the pocket.
    This silliness will only end when the people decide enough is enough. That is a long way off though. Especially when 80% of shoppers are still masked up and gobshytes are willing to line up for their 5th ineffective booster jab. Good god.
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Im not sure what your point is, mate. Are you suggesting that whatever happens in France matters?
    To me it does matter. It could affect the whole of SL in terms of revenues, league tables, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    To me it does matter. It could affect the whole of SL in terms of revenues, league tables, etc.
    Fair enough
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    To who? To spectators? To clubs? I still don’t get the point made. Should we kick the french teams out? Should we protest and field weakened teams travelling to france?
    Personally, i think every super league club should forfeit the 2 points and have a weeks rest gifting the french. Lets see if catalans feel that in the pocket.
    This silliness will only end when the people decide enough is enough. That is a long way off though. Especially when 80% of shoppers are still masked up and gobshytes are willing to line up for their 5th ineffective booster jab. Good god.
    If you think that any vaccine is ineffective then you are even more stupid than I first thought

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belgian Saint View Post
    While I agree about what you are saying, I aso don't think he has a cat in hells chance of making Wales RU. He is turning into a very good winger, one that I would hate to lose, but wing in RU is a different game.

    Wales have very limited wing options after the first choice pair of lrz and adams, grace would imo be in the wales squad very quickly certainly within 12 months of returning to union. He is great with ball in hand, a solid tackler and has played union as a kid for many years allied to whch back 3 is the easiest position to transfer from code to code. Sullivan got a wales cap with far less experience in the union code

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    Saints have confirmed that they have 3 players currently unvaccinated: https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport...catalans-away/

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Saints have confirmed that they have 3 players currently unvaccinated: https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport...catalans-away/
    Very interesting. Does Kristian give it away there in his choice of words or am I reaching a bit there?

    I'm supportive of vaccines but respect people who choose not to. Still kind of disappointed to not beat Wigan though, they only have one unvaccinated player.

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    Idiots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post
    Very interesting. Does Kristian give it away there in his choice of words or am I reaching a bit there?
    Are you referring to the "Beliefs" bit? Because that did make me wonder

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    In The South Stand KentishBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddened! View Post

    I'm supportive of vaccines but respect people who choose not to. ..
    I agree with you.
    It's a personal choice, and it should remain personal IMO. Too much finger pointing going on around this whole issue!
    It will become more obvious who these players are likely to be as the season progresses. I just hope this doesn't cause any distraction from their game

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Idiots.
    ...On both sides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Euroboy View Post
    Are you referring to the "Beliefs" bit? Because that did make me wonder
    If you’re getting at religious, as opposed to internet conspiracy theory beliefs, I should point out that I know of no major religion that has opposed vaccination. Cathedrals and churches have been opened up as vaccination centres and mosques and temples have followed suit. Some lies, designed to raise religious/moral concerns about the vaccine, were spread early on by the internet conspiracy theorists but religious leaders, such as the pope, declared that it was OK to take the vaccine.

    Some ethnic groups seem to have been targeted, possibly by racists intending them harm, by vaccine deniers and some have fallen for the lies. Some extreme right wing groups are also anti vaccine just as many also deny climate change. I’m not sure why because putting your own health at risk shouldn’t be a political issue.

    Serbia, for example, has worryingly right wing factions and vaccine take up there is 47 percent. There’s an interesting piece about this and Novak Djokovic supporters under” Postcard from Belgrade” on page 22 of the current edition of “Private Eye”.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    If you’re getting at religious, as opposed to internet conspiracy theory beliefs, I should point out that I know of no major religion that has opposed vaccination. Cathedrals and churches have been opened up as vaccination centres and mosques and temples have followed suit. Some lies, designed to raise religious/moral concerns about the vaccine, were spread early on by the internet conspiracy theorists but religious leaders, such as the pope, declared that it was OK to take the vaccine.

    Some ethnic groups seem to have been targeted, possibly by racists intending them harm, by vaccine deniers and some have fallen for the lies. Some extreme right wing groups are also anti vaccine just as many also deny climate change. I’m not sure why because putting your own health at risk shouldn’t be a political issue.

    Serbia, for example, has worryingly right wing factions and vaccine take up there is 47 percent. There’s an interesting piece about this and Novak Djokovic supporters under” Postcard from Belgrade” on page 22 of the current edition of “Private Eye”.
    Whilst no organised religion outwardly opposes the vaccine theres definitely a correlation/ causation argument between strong religious views and anti vax sentiment (https://theconversation.com/christia...ovid-19-158023)

    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    I agree with you.
    It's a personal choice, and it should remain personal IMO. Too much finger pointing going on around this whole issue!
    It will become more obvious who these players are likely to be as the season progresses. I just hope this doesn't cause any distraction from their game
    Sigh. But its only a personal choice if you choose to be completely selfish and ignore your role in society. I think I read 4/5ths of Intensive care cases are now unvaccinated. Thats resources the NHS dont really have to spare, and diverted away from the massive backlog of other issues like cancer because of their "personal choice". Unvaccinated people are also more likely to cause mutations, leading to the next spike and us going through this all over again (one of the reasons vaccine equity with other countries is so important) and add risk to the most vulnerable in society whom cant get vaccinated themselves.

    Focussing just on rugby though, its no longer a personal issue, its a contractual one. The three Saints players are now legally banned from playing 11% of our season. Woolf can put a brave face on it, but what if by the time we go to travel we have 4 or 5 injuries already? Those extra three go from an irritant to effectively having to play a weakened team. Whilst it wont affect their current contracts, it may well affect the clubs decision on whom they retain...

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Whilst no organised religion outwardly opposes the vaccine theres definitely a correlation/ causation argument between strong religious views and anti vax sentiment (https://theconversation.com/christia...ovid-19-158023)
    I agree that there are fringe groups that oppose vaccination but the idea of a Christian nationalist is counter intuitive and supports my point about it being a right wing problem (although I’m not sure what Piers Corbyn is). There is also some individual led Pentecostal Church in New Zealand that also seems to be causing problems but the Elim Pentecostal Church, probably the biggest, has produced this:

    https://www.elim.org.uk/Articles/569..._COVID_19.aspx

    In addition Assmblies Of God Pentecostal Pastors (probably the second biggest Pentecostal grouping) in the USA have supported vaccination.

    I’m really just making the point that most religions are not anti vaccination.

    People who promote Covid 19 is a myth/no mask wearing/anti vaccination propaganda are dangerous. It’s a shame that three players from a club that has been instrumental in getting people vaccinated are apparently taking a misguided stand. I’d really love to know why.

    P.S. I do agree with your post.
    Last edited by Suttoner; 27th January 2022 at 10:39. Reason: P.S.

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    In The South Stand KentishBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post


    Sigh. But its only a personal choice if you choose to be completely selfish and ignore your role in society...
    Sigh.
    Which is exactly the sort of finger pointing I was talking about!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Sigh.
    Which is exactly the sort of finger pointing I was talking about!
    So you disagree that valuing personal choice over societal membership is the definition of selfish? Or that choosing to remain unvaccinated a) puts undue pressure on the health service b) poses a risk to others who may not have that choice and c) creates higher risk of mutations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    So you disagree that valuing personal choice over societal membership is the definition of selfish? Or that choosing to remain unvaccinated a) puts undue pressure on the health service b) poses a risk to others who may not have that choice and c) creates higher risk of mutations?
    Too much hysterical nonsense is being spouted over this IMO.

    Out of interest,where do you draw your line?
    Driving a car? (air pollution and road traffic accidents)
    Smoking?
    Not eating a healthy diet?
    Not exercising enough?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    I agree that there are fringe groups that oppose vaccination but the idea of a Christian nationalist is counter intuitive and supports my point about it being a right wing problem (although I’m not sure what Piers Corbyn is). There is also some individual led Pentecostal Church in New Zealand that also seems to be causing problems but the Elim Pentecostal Church, probably the biggest, has produced this:

    https://www.elim.org.uk/Articles/569..._COVID_19.aspx

    In addition Assmblies Of God Pentecostal Pastors (probably the second biggest Pentecostal grouping) in the USA have supported vaccination.

    I’m really just making the point that most religions are not anti vaccination.

    People who promote Covid 19 is a myth/no mask wearing/anti vaccination propaganda are dangerous. It’s a shame that three players from a club that has been instrumental in getting people vaccinated are apparently taking a misguided stand. I’d really love to know why.

    P.S. I do agree with your post.
    True, which is why I did put causation/correlation as there is definitely a correlation between right leaning political views and strong religious ones, so its hard to say cause vs causation.

    This is the difficulty with the Woolf article, it naturally makes fans try to second guess who are those who are not vaccinated. I appreciate why the club wouldn't come out and say its Bill, Bob and Jim, but the issue is, it shouldn't be too hard for us to figure out who missed all three of the French games next year ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Too much hysterical nonsense is being spouted over this IMO.

    Out of interest,where do you draw your line?
    Driving a car? (air pollution and road traffic accidents)
    Smoking?
    Not eating a healthy diet?
    Not exercising enough?
    Spectacular deflection. Taking the vaccine is a binary choice (which none of the other things you list are) - it has no impact on your life (unless you believe it will turn you into a crocodile like the Brazilian conspiracy) other than to say "look at me, I am choosing not to conform". Please answer the question, is choosing to not take the vaccine because of "personal choice", not the definition of valuing personal choice over societal membership and therefore selfish?

    Though for the record;

    Yes, I do think it is a decent member of societies responsibility to reduce their carbon emissions. That doesn't necessarily mean not driving a car, or going on a plane because there are perfectly legitimate reasons why someone might want to do that, but theres no reason why not to try and counterbalance that, either by driving less, or creating more green spaces, removing fast fashion from your wardrobe or any of the hundreds of other ways you contribute to your carbon footprint.

    Smoking - yep theres absolutely no good reason why anyone would smoke.

    Healthy diet and exercising enough is a very fluid concept, after all there was a time where cigarettes were supposed to be healthy. We are walking into an obesity endemic in this country and whilst I don't know what the answer is to it (I dont believe things like the sugar tax will work) we do as a society require coming to an answer for it

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    True, which is why I did put causation/correlation as there is definitely a correlation between right leaning political views and strong religious ones, so its hard to say cause vs causation.

    This is the difficulty with the Woolf article, it naturally makes fans try to second guess who are those who are not vaccinated. I appreciate why the club wouldn't come out and say its Bill, Bob and Jim, but the issue is, it shouldn't be too hard for us to figure out who missed all three of the French games next year ...
    I have to concede that many in the American extreme right profess to be Christians but if they are, their beliefs have been perverted. I’m sure that the remaining members of the Ku Klux Klan go to white only churches of some sort. The point I’m trying to make is that it’s an out of step minority. I’d honestly like to discuss their beliefs with the players in question in order to understand where their beliefs come from but that will never happen.

    I agree with the point highlighted in bold save to say the three may be fringe players but I suspect they aren’t.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    Spectacular deflection. Taking the vaccine is a binary choice (which none of the other things you list are) - it has no impact on your life (unless you believe it will turn you into a crocodile like the Brazilian conspiracy) other than to say "look at me, I am choosing not to conform". Please answer the question, is choosing to not take the vaccine because of "personal choice", not the definition of valuing personal choice over societal membership and therefore selfish?

    Though for the record;

    Yes, I do think it is a decent member of societies responsibility to reduce their carbon emissions. That doesn't necessarily mean not driving a car, or going on a plane because there are perfectly legitimate reasons why someone might want to do that, but theres no reason why not to try and counterbalance that, either by driving less, or creating more green spaces, removing fast fashion from your wardrobe or any of the hundreds of other ways you contribute to your carbon footprint.

    Smoking - yep theres absolutely no good reason why anyone would smoke.

    Healthy diet and exercising enough is a very fluid concept, after all there was a time where cigarettes were supposed to be healthy. We are walking into an obesity endemic in this country and whilst I don't know what the answer is to it (I dont believe things like the sugar tax will work) we do as a society require coming to an answer for it
    I'm not deflecting anything.
    Life is full of risks and consequences to oneself and to others. Society seems to 'accept' some of these, and we all get on with life. We still seem to be on a learning curve with Covid and I personally think that too many people are over-reacting or being self righteous about vaccines etc. at this point in time.

    I do believe that having the jab is a personal choice. I chose to do so and would encourage others to do the same. However, I don't believe that those who don't want it are being selfish, and I do think that you and others are overstating the impact of their choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Too much hysterical nonsense is being spouted over this IMO.

    Out of interest,where do you draw your line?
    Driving a car? (air pollution and road traffic accidents)
    Smoking?
    Not eating a healthy diet?
    Not exercising enough?
    These aren't quite the same as covid & vaccine mandates though are they, and the ones that affect others have had government intervention that applies to everyone;
    Driving - the regulations on emissions have been getting steadily stricter over the years with the total combustion engine sale ban looming in 8 years time,
    Smoking - Now banned in all enclosed spaces except the home to limit the effects on others,
    Healthy diet & exercise - this only directly affect the individual, you can't make someone else fat, unhealthy & ill by sitting next to them on a train. And in relation to the NHS while people in this category do drain resources from the NHS there are also regulations in place that restrict some treatments unless these individuals do something to address their problems themselves. As an example if your obese and don't eat healthily and wont exercise to lose weight and you need treatment like a transplant then your placed near the bottom of the priority list. So again Government intervention just like they've done with Covid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    I'm not deflecting anything.
    Life is full of risks and consequences to oneself and to others. Society seems to 'accept' some of these, and we all get on with life. We still seem to be on a learning curve with Covid and I personally think that too many people are over-reacting or being self righteous about vaccines etc. at this point in time.
    We have been on this "learning curve" ever since vaccines have been about. Vaccine scepticism isn't new to covid, and is just one part of a much wider "anti-vax" movement. Look at the return of measles outbreaks in the US (https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l312) and how it links to anti-vax sentiment.

    "Society" accepts risks which are defined and tolerated. To go back to your pollution/ global warming comparison; Society tolerates the "risk" of driving a car because theres lots of factors which come into play when it comes to someones footprint. With covid is there are a similar number of ways to factor in their risk to society. This issue is that for those not willing to accept the "simple" way (aka taking the vaccine) are generally also unwilling to do the other things which could limit their risk (self isolating, social distancing, wearing a mask, not going to crowded events etc etc). I would encourage everyone who knows someone who drives 2 minutes to the shops, and doesn't recycle, buys mass volume clothes, and food from multi thousand miles locations to challenge their behaviour, just as I would challenge those who knows someone who isnt vaccinated to get vaccinated or avoid society. Thats not being self righteous so much as being responsible for the world around me.

    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    I do believe that having the jab is a personal choice. I chose to do so and would encourage others to do the same. However, I don't believe that those who don't want it are being selfish, and I do think that you and others are overstating the impact of their choice.
    Okay, please do elaborate. I have stated 3 impacts on the wider society; the impact on the NHS, the increased likelihood of mutations, and the greater risk to those who cannot be vaccinated. Which of those risks do you challenge as me "overstating the impact"? You dont believe choosing personal rights over societal membership is selfish and I just cannot understand how you draw that conclusion, if you accept that unvaccinated people are still members of society? Or are you suggesting that you would advocate policies like with France, where unvaccinated people are actively excluded from society much like I stated above?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Toppy View Post
    These aren't quite the same as covid & vaccine mandates though are they, and the ones that affect others have had government intervention that applies to everyone;
    Driving - the regulations on emissions have been getting steadily stricter over the years with the total combustion engine sale ban looming in 8 years time,
    Smoking - Now banned in all enclosed spaces except the home to limit the effects on others,
    Healthy diet & exercise - this only directly affect the individual, you can't make someone else fat, unhealthy & ill by sitting next to them on a train. And in relation to the NHS while people in this category do drain resources from the NHS there are also regulations in place that restrict some treatments unless these individuals do something to address their problems themselves. As an example if your obese and don't eat healthily and wont exercise to lose weight and you need treatment like a transplant then your placed near the bottom of the priority list. So again Government intervention just like they've done with Covid.
    The principals are exactly the same. All the above could be considered to be irresponsible as they can and do have an impact on society.
    Not having a vaccine will be in there somewhere, but IMO, the problem is being overstated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    The principals are exactly the same. All the above could be considered to be irresponsible as they can and do have an impact on society.
    Not having a vaccine will be in there somewhere, but IMO, the problem is being overstated.
    I’d argue a small number of unvaccinated people in a country with a very high vaccination rate are far less of a vector to the virus mutating than countries with low vaccination rates like most of Africa have. Maybe instead of sticking people from affluent countries with booster after booster vaccines should be diverted to those countries with low vaccination rates, that way variants are going to come far less frequently and we can get on with things, its telling that variants are coming from countries with low vaccination rates rather than those with high rates even with some people choosing not to get vaccinated.

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