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Thread: Why are Hull FC second in the league?

  1. #26
    In The West Stand Ralph Fridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MachineGunFunk View Post
    Shows up golden point for the joke that it is, completely unnecessary. An extra 20 mins and still a draw.

    Only needed in cup ties, a draw after 80 mins should be 1 pt each.

    And the irony is they don't have this in the Championship and Division 1 to 'reduce the workload on the players' .

    You couldn't make this s##t up!
    Shows up top flight rugby league for the joke that it is.

    The sport is a circus

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MachineGunFunk View Post
    Shows up golden point for the joke that it is, completely unnecessary. An extra 20 mins and still a draw.

    Only needed in cup ties, a draw after 80 mins should be 1 pt each.

    And the irony is they don't have this in the Championship and Division 1 to 'reduce the workload on the players' .

    You couldn't make this s##t up!
    No, it's five minutes each way. I agree though a drawn game after 80 minutes should be one point to each team, so it worked out right in the end.

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    On a different point it appears that a draw actually counts as a defeat in terms of a teams percentage in the league table. Hull with 2 wins and a draw are on 66.66% whilst Warrington with 1 win 1 defeat and a draw are on 33.33%. I assume no one thought draws would happen with golden point!

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    Quote Originally Posted by EPiP View Post
    On a different point it appears that a draw actually counts as a defeat in terms of a teams percentage in the league table. Hull with 2 wins and a draw are on 66.66% whilst Warrington with 1 win 1 defeat and a draw are on 33.33%. I assume no one thought draws would happen with golden point!
    Damn, I'm finally getting my head around the goal difference percentage thing. Now someone's going to have to explain this draw percentage anomaly for me.

  5. #30
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    It's quite simple!!

    1st it's on points for win/draw or loss. 2,1,0.

    Then the next decisive factor is points percentage.

    That is (points scored divided by points conceded) multiplied by 100 expressed as a percentage.

    (ps /pc) x 100.

    I really struggle with how maths is taught these days, and English for that matter. ( Grumpy Old Git)

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    9 drop goal attempts in 10 mins. It's like something you used to see at HT. A complete farce. I'm fed up of all the rule changes but if they got rid of ET I wouldn't complain about that change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    It's quite simple!!

    1st it's on points for win/draw or loss. 2,1,0.

    Then the next decisive factor is points percentage.

    That is (points scored divided by points conceded) multiplied by 100 expressed as a percentage.

    (ps /pc) x 100.

    I really struggle with how maths is taught these days, and English for that matter. ( Grumpy Old Git)
    That's not what previous posters have said. I thought first was win percentage. Before yesterday Warrington 's win % was 50%. They draw and it goes down to 33% explain that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by EPiP View Post
    That's not what previous posters have said. I thought first was win percentage. Before yesterday Warrington 's win % was 50%. They draw and it goes down to 33% explain that!
    Having looked at again I've decided it's super league that doesn't understand it's own system. Warrington should still be on 50% and Hull on 83.33%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    Shows up top flight rugby league for the joke that it is.

    The sport is a circus
    Correct, absolutely embarrassing.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by EPiP View Post
    Having looked at again I've decided it's super league that doesn't understand it's own system. Warrington should still be on 50% and Hull on 83.33%.
    That’s why I kept saying it just doesn’t make sense, the formulation shouldn’t be applied until we see quite a few COVID cancellations.
    I,m not aware of any other sporting body adopting the same approach to league positions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    That’s why I kept saying it just doesn’t make sense, the formulation shouldn’t be applied until we see quite a few COVID cancellations.
    I,m not aware of any other sporting body adopting the same approach to league positions.
    I'm not aware of any other sporting body that's ran like a car boot sale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EPiP View Post
    Having looked at again I've decided it's super league that doesn't understand it's own system. Warrington should still be on 50% and Hull on 83.33%.
    It's not based on win percentage. It's based on points percentage (points scored/points conceded)*100

    Wire (70/47)*100 = 148.94
    Hull (71/28)*100= 253.57

    It does encourage more defensive rugby though as conceding fewer points is more advantageous than scoring more points.

    i.e. a 10 points to 2 win is better than a 16 to 4 win, which I'm not sure is a good thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    It's not based on win percentage. It's based on points percentage (points scored/points conceded)*100

    Wire (70/47)*100 = 148.94
    Hull (71/28)*100= 253.57

    It does encourage more defensive rugby though as conceding fewer points is more advantageous than scoring more points.

    i.e. a 10 points to 2 win is better than a 16 to 4 win, which I'm not sure is a good thing?
    Stop talking sense!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    It's not based on win percentage. It's based on points percentage (points scored/points conceded)*100

    Wire (70/47)*100 = 148.94
    Hull (71/28)*100= 253.57

    It does encourage more defensive rugby though as conceding fewer points is more advantageous than scoring more points.

    i.e. a 10 points to 2 win is better than a 16 to 4 win, which I'm not sure is a good thing?
    But doesn't that mean a team that loses narrowly every time to the better teams can finish above them if they win by cricket scores against the 'lesser' teams?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogues Gallery View Post
    It's not based on win percentage. It's based on points percentage (points scored/points conceded)*100

    Wire (70/47)*100 = 148.94
    Hull (71/28)*100= 253.57

    It does encourage more defensive rugby though as conceding fewer points is more advantageous than scoring more points.

    i.e. a 10 points to 2 win is better than a 16 to 4 win, which I'm not sure is a good thing?
    No, I think that's wrong. In the first instance the league is based on win percentage. Only when that is indecisive does points percentage come into play. Details here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EPiP View Post
    That's not what previous posters have said. I thought first was win percentage. Before yesterday Warrington 's win % was 50%. They draw and it goes down to 33% explain that!
    Because Warrington didnt win yesterday, so they have 1 win from 3 games, 33% win percentage, not that i agree with how its being done. The simple thing to do is to divide the number of points the club has by the number of points they could have, so Warrington would have a percentage of 50% given they have 3 points from the maximum 6 available, but we all know the powers that be dont do simple, even though that the rule they have but arent following.

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    "Win points percentage is calculated by dividing the number of league points by the number of matches played, multiplied by 50.

    If teams are equal, positions will be determined by points scored percentage, calculated by dividing the number of points scored by the number of points conceded and multiplying by 100."

    From the article. It genuinely seems like they haven't calculated it properly at all.

    In a nutshell wire have 3 points from 3 games, therefore have a 50% win rate (they have 3 points out of a max of 6 points available...50%). They've calculated it as a loss though as far as I can see...yet they still have 3 points in the table, but 33.33% win rate?

    My head's melting


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    Honestly, why have they put this convoluted idea into place now? No other sports league has done this.
    Why not keep as normal until we got to a stage where a lot of games are being cancelled? Could specify in the rules that if x many games cannot be played then we move to the % basis. Casual sports fan looking at the table will be laughably confused even before we get to whatever play off structure is in favour in this particular year.

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    I imagine the reason the percentage-based system has been put in place now is because of the meltdown last year when it was introduced mid-season. Far better in the eyes of the ruling body to have the methodology from the outset, with hopefully a possibility of reverting to the normal system later if there are no Covid-affected games. If we are not that lucky, however, at least everyone will have known the detail from the start, even if not all understand the intricacies of it!

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    Can I be the first to say I don’t understand it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coors View Post
    Honestly, why have they put this convoluted idea into place now? No other sports league has done this.
    Why not keep as normal until we got to a stage where a lot of games are being cancelled? Could specify in the rules that if x many games cannot be played then we move to the % basis. Casual sports fan looking at the table will be laughably confused even before we get to whatever play off structure is in favour in this particular year.


    Exactly.

    They agreed the calculations with clubs before the season started, and could have just kept it in a drawer until it was actually needed (if at all)


    I also don't understand the reason for the 'points percentage' thing. How would this be fairer than just using an average points for/against?

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    It's been amended now to take the draw into consideration.

    The confusion was a direct result of them not following their own rules for determining the league table

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Exactly.

    They agreed the calculations with clubs before the season started, and could have just kept it in a drawer until it was actually needed (if at all)


    I also don't understand the reason for the 'points percentage' thing. How would this be fairer than just using an average points for/against?
    I said before the season started it should have been announced as the fall back position for if things went wrong not used from round 1.

    It's not too late for them to change their mind and revert to a normal league table until and if something goes wrong but I can't see it happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guns86 View Post
    I said before the season started it should have been announced as the fall back position for if things went wrong not used from round 1.

    It's not too late for them to change their mind and revert to a normal league table until and if something goes wrong but I can't see it happening.

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    I thought that was the plan as well, but obviously the megaminds at SL/RFL know best

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    None of it matters anyway unless teams start actually missing games due to covid

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