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Thread: Article on Fages

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Fridge View Post
    I'm pretty much the opposite. Even though I don't think he's the most creative 7 & his kicking isn't the best, he's a steady player in attack. What he does have in abundance is heart. He is a fierce competitor & leaves nothing on the pitch every time he plays. Defensively, safe as houses. Which, whether you like it or not is just as important.

    He's a player you'd want on your side 100 times out of 100. You've not got 2 grand final wins in a Saints shirt if you're a rubbish halfback. Fages is 26, not 33, & if Dodd wants to be scrum half, he'll have to take Theo's place off him.

    I disagree with DD. You don't just dispense with the qualities he brings. It's exactly why Luleuai has had such a long career. He competes ferociously.
    I'm with you Ralph. Although some of Fages fifth tackle plays are poor and his kicking game is not the best, he compenstaes in the other areas you've identified. He's certainly no passenger and has contributed fully in our successes. He's a good player surrounded by some very good players, Luleuai is a good example as you say of such a player. When we chose fages over Richardson wechose a combative rugged and pretty reliable player over one with flair, it was a good choice!

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    I'm with Ralph as well, but I don't disagree with anything in DD's analysis. It depends what you want in a team. I'd always prefer to have a Fages than a Hastings (for instance) in my team for exactly the qualities Fages brings, and especially his defence. He's 26 too, so coming into the peak of his powers.

    Aren't Lomax and Fages close? Surely that helps with the team's cohesion and success.

    And didn't Catalans treat Fages poorly? I'm not sure he'd want to go there.

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    [QUOTE=Canterbredve;815882]I'm with Ralph as well, but I don't disagree with anything in DD's analysis. It depends what you want in a team. I'd always prefer to have a Fages than a Hastings (for instance) in my team for exactly the qualities Fages brings, and especially his defence. He's 26 too, so coming into the peak of his powers.

    Aren't Lomax and Fages close? Surely that helps with the team's cohesion and success.

    And didn't Catalans treat Fages poorly? I'm not sure he'd want to go there.[/QUOTEe

    I don’t think he was ever at Cats. He we went to Salford as a 16 year old.

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    I read somewhere on here that Cats rejected him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Certainly out of the three out of contract players, Fages is the expendable one. Regan Grace is one of the top two or three most exciting wingers in the country and Bentley has become indispensable.

    If there is one chink in the armour of this Saints side it is that neither of our half backs are actually orthodox half backs. Neither have any last set plays and neither takes charge of the game. They are not leaders, organisers or generals. Lomax is a fine player, who I think is better at full back, and he'd also be a better half back with a general alongside him. If Coote does go, then I would prefer to see Lomax back at No.1 and us look to buy a half, and not a full back, where I feel we have both Welsby and Makinson who can fill in admirably.

    Theo is another of those players who is a good lad, a proper tryer who can defend and generally work his bollocks off, but he lacks that Ingredient X that you need from a scrum half. A 7 needs more to his game than tackling and an aimless punt on the last.

    If we could find ourselves a decent 7, somebody like Adam Sezer perhaps, somebody who could provide the missing link between the forwards and the backs, then we'd be pretty much untouchable. Our pack and our back line are miles ahead of anybody in this league, but we have Jonny Lomax playing in his second best role to fill a gap and we have a dependable but somewhat average player alongside him. That lack of natural half back nous could well be why Woolf favours the game plan that he does. He's simply playing to our strengths.

    We all know we are going to finish in the top four, so the coach needs to start to use some of the games against lesser opposition now to try something different. This means giving Lewis Dodd game time and trying Welsby at stand off a little more, because we are not going to know if they are going to be good enough without first team game time. The time is coming when Welsby needs to find a home. In his early days, he looked like a half back, but he was written off after a couple of bad games. I think that was harsh, but we'll never know unless he's given a decent chance to prove it.
    A well thought out piece.

    Couple of differences in opinion to your take.

    Bentley "Indispensable" - Nobody is Indispensable.

    He has done well namely tackles and is a competitor.
    My question what has he done with ball in hand ?
    Nothing terrible but nothing that noteworthy either.
    I would like to see him retained on better but not silly money but it's a bit early for a statue.

    Lomax to Fullback. - Not sure he has the legs and he certainly does not have the pace.

    I would let Both KevN and Coote go. Simm and Welsby to step up.
    In addition I would go for Matty Ashton who is OOC.

    Then you have either a ball player or a speedster for fullback.
    Welsby can play 6 and centre also. Ashton can play Wing.

    That model gives gives you variety , flexibility and competition across the backs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Mander View Post
    A well thought out piece.

    Couple of differences in opinion to your take.

    Bentley "Indispensable" - Nobody is Indispensable.

    He has done well namely tackles and is a competitor.
    My question what has he done with ball in hand ?
    Nothing terrible but nothing that noteworthy either.
    I would like to see him retained on better but not silly money but it's a bit early for a statue.

    Lomax to Fullback. - Not sure he has the legs and he certainly does not have the pace.

    I would let Both KevN and Coote go. Simm and Welsby to step up.
    In addition I would go for Matty Ashton who is OOC.

    Then you have either a ball player or a speedster for fullback.
    Welsby can play 6 and centre also. Ashton can play Wing.

    That model gives gives you variety , flexibility and competition across the backs.
    What Bentley does give and also what Fages gives is confidence in defence,the players outside them can move out a bit more as they know their inside defender will make the tackle 99% of the time,this also allows the fullback more room to work in. We are built on strong defence and can anyone really see Wolfe changing that ?

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    It's a big year recruitment and retention wise. Getting Lomax and Walmsley to sign new deals is big. But with Grace, Bentley, Fages, Coote, Naiqama and Roby off contract, this has the potential to go wrong.

    Any retention decision must be taken with a bigger picture in mind. Neither of our half backs are natural field kickers. Coote takes a lot of that responsibility for a full back, with Fages doing that in his absence.

    Fages high kicks near the line are good and usually land the right side of the goal line. His grubbers and long kicking aren't up to that standard though.

    We hear a lot about Dodd, but I'm starting to suspect we would have seen him more if we rated him as highly as some think.

    We are the best team in the country and have been for years. The key to staying there is decision making. If we have a spine of Welsby, Lomax, Dodd and Smith next year that is far less experienced and weaker.

    I like Fages. He's a good and very consistent player, but we may need to be ruthless and use any spare cap space to get a top class scrum half. Or, if Roby retires, we may retain Fages and get an experienced hooker in.

    Some huge calls to make for the club and it's not easy with so many pivots off contract and potentially not knowing whether Coote or Roby will be staying until late in the day.

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    Dodd on the bench today may signal a gradual change at 7.

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    Of course, they used Dodd to spell Roby to give him game time last season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suttoner View Post
    Dodd on the bench today may signal a gradual change at 7.
    No Percival. Welsby at centre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 58er View Post
    No Percival. Welsby at centre.
    I hope that Percival’s “knock” is just that and that they aren’t taking any chances.

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    I must be one of the few that thinks it would be a mistake letting Fages go..

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    Quote Originally Posted by wirefox View Post
    Gently has his sights set on the N R L
    I personally think Bentley would struggle in the NRL, he certainly isn’t ready yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The.Reverand View Post
    I personally think Bentley would struggle in the NRL, he certainly isn’t ready yet.
    I agree, don't think he makes anywhere near enough metres consistently.. needs another few seasons in Super League

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    Said it before Theo is a steady Eddie who Lomax trusts. Theo is a Jeff Heaton and teams need them. Bentley I would be careful with. Leeds may just throw a packet at him, if they do let them. I am not sure he is a Bateman. My word he works and tackles but is he worth top wages, I would prefer Knowles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    Said it before Theo is a steady Eddie who Lomax trusts. Theo is a Jeff Heaton and teams need them. Bentley I would be careful with. Leeds may just throw a packet at him, if they do let them. I am not sure he is a Bateman. My word he works and tackles but is he worth top wages, I would prefer Knowles.

    Think Knowles is way more advanced than Bentley. Knowles had a quiet season last year, whereas Bentley had his best ever, which may be colouring some opinions, but Knowles has shown he's in the top quality tier in SL with the potential to be a great of the modern game.

    I just hope Woolf gives him a more involved role with the ball like Holbrook did, rather than just a middles plugger.

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    For 2022 my backline would be

    1. Coote - 1 year deal
    2. Makinson
    3. Naiqama -1 year deal unless he asks for to much then play simm
    4. Percival
    5. Grace
    6. Lomax
    7. Dodd

    Fages money to be spent on bentley and some young lads.
    If kev goes simm gets right center spot.
    Welsby to be cover for 1 to 7 then to replace coote when he retires

    This year would really like to see game time for norman and wingfield. Amor and lms wont be here next year so need to see what the young lads have got

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    Quote Originally Posted by itswide2west View Post
    For 2022 my backline would be

    1. Coote - 1 year deal
    2. Makinson
    3. Naiqama -1 year deal unless he asks for to much then play simm
    4. Percival
    5. Grace
    6. Lomax
    7. Dodd

    Fages money to be spent on bentley and some young lads.
    If kev goes simm gets right center spot.
    Welsby to be cover for 1 to 7 then to replace coote when he retires

    This year would really like to see game time for norman and wingfield. Amor and lms wont be here next year so need to see what the young lads have got

    Is this confirmed?
    Thought they have both started this season well. Amor looks the freshest he has in a long while.

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    Bentley has a lot to prove .Yes he tackles well but with ball in hand is he any good? His terrible pass after the break today spoke volumes

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    I've been holding back on commenting on Bentley. I really am underwhelmed with his running game and think he is an easy pick for opposition coaching and players. First reaction is to step back into the ruck - from right to left like Dominic Peyroux but without the speed or footwork to break the line. Passing game non existent - granted this could be the coaching and gameplan - we haven't many offloads in Woolfs time in charge.
    His positives are workrate and defence. Probably the modern 2nd row of this era then but I know what I prefer from 2nd row. He certainly isn't a Chris Joynt.
    No doubt ill be slated for my comments!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardianreader View Post
    I've been holding back on commenting on Bentley. I really am underwhelmed with his running game and think he is an easy pick for opposition coaching and players. First reaction is to step back into the ruck - from right to left like Dominic Peyroux but without the speed or footwork to break the line. Passing game non existent - granted this could be the coaching and gameplan - we haven't many offloads in Woolfs time in charge.
    His positives are workrate and defence. Probably the modern 2nd row of this era then but I know what I prefer from 2nd row. He certainly isn't a Chris Joynt.
    No doubt ill be slated for my comments!!!
    I think you've called that well mate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardianreader View Post
    I've been holding back on commenting on Bentley. I really am underwhelmed with his running game and think he is an easy pick for opposition coaching and players. First reaction is to step back into the ruck - from right to left like Dominic Peyroux but without the speed or footwork to break the line. Passing game non existent - granted this could be the coaching and gameplan - we haven't many offloads in Woolfs time in charge.
    His positives are workrate and defence. Probably the modern 2nd row of this era then but I know what I prefer from 2nd row. He certainly isn't a Chris Joynt.
    No doubt ill be slated for my comments!!!
    You won’t be slated by me.

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    Gotta say I think Bentley is slightly overated.
    He could develop into a great player but at the moment i see a lot of wasted energy. Not seeing the kind of runs/lines from many of our previous players. Not exactly busting through the line either.

    But I like him and I think he will become a better player

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    When Knowles returns, I can see Matautia moving to the right hand second row position with Bentley on the bench, possible spelling Knowles for 10-15 minutes either side of half time. If that is successful, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Bentley wanting to move on at the year end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guardianreader View Post
    I've been holding back on commenting on Bentley. I really am underwhelmed with his running game and think he is an easy pick for opposition coaching and players. First reaction is to step back into the ruck - from right to left like Dominic Peyroux but without the speed or footwork to break the line. Passing game non existent - granted this could be the coaching and gameplan - we haven't many offloads in Woolfs time in charge.
    His positives are workrate and defence. Probably the modern 2nd row of this era then but I know what I prefer from 2nd row. He certainly isn't a Chris Joynt.
    No doubt ill be slated for my comments!!!
    Knowles at loose forward and Matautia at second row will be stronger in my view.

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