It's a difficult one. He hasn't let us down at all and is probably the 2nd best half back when it comes to defence (Leuluai being 1st), the problem is in attack and I don't know if it is because of the job he's been asked to do or if he is just limited in his skill set. There have been moments in the oppositions 20 where he has made a break and scored a great solo try but those moments have been to and far between. Honestly if we sign him and resign Bentley, Lees etc then fine but if someone has to go then I wouldn't lose sleep over him going, especially with Dodd waiting for his opportunity. One thing I can say is he's always given his all playing for Saints and if he was to leave I'd hope it isn't for a rival club and he goes back to France or has a go in the NRL.
I hope we get it right whatever we decide to do. Quite a few clubs were chasing him in 2015 so i imagine he’s on a decent chunk of our salary cap. Im not sold on Aaron Smith yet. Having said that, theres no guarantee that Fages would be a great 9 either. I would be sad to see Fages leave. He’s a tough little player who always turns up for us.
It will probably simply come down to money. Can we afford to pay him big money with Dodd coming through? I can see him moving on.
screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies
We can't keep Lewis Dodd sitting on the sidelines for too long or he'll move on? Maybe Fages needs to be moved on to accommodate him. Sad but with a celery cap we need to relish the situation.
I seem to remember him being keen to move to the NRL a couple of seasons ago.
Shocked and surprised to see Fages kicking across field on his last play kicks in the first two games of the season. Seemed to catch the defences out too. Usually his visual range for his kick is about 20 degrees radius in front of him. Probably my only criticism of his play previously.
I want to join in but i cant think of anything.
Fagues has the potential to become world class #1 vegtables
You really should have just left it alone with that spelling. Now you look like a right turnip.
In seriousness, I was thinking about the situation the other day. Say for instance Fages leaves at the end of the season and we keep Dodd who starts the season on fire but gets injured for 10 games, who do we bring in then? It's one of those positions you can't just fill in at and we've all seen the result when you try and do that. We really need to try and hang on to Theo for me, he's not a world beater but he's a tough little bugger you can rely on.
Quite right. Equally, it’s a risky strategy to get rid of someone who’s proven his worth in helping the club to win 2 Grand Finals and then find his replacement cannot step up to the mark. Surely better to try to retain Fages and leave it to Dodd to prove his worth in training and on those occasions he gets game time.
Fages will not be retained. A combination of Lomax retention and Dodd plus Welsby development.
I think this has been know by all parties for sometime.
Matt Shaw strongly hinted at this over a month ago on the Full 80 Podcast ( Dodd's agent one of the presenters)
Sorry to see him go. Think he copped for everything when Lomax should have taken his share of the flak , when things have not gone right at HB.
However it a salary capped sport and all that. You can't keep everyone.
I would rather lose the odd player you would be happy to keep rather be sat waiting for a batch of dud signings' contract to expire (Lance, Perry LeFrank etc).
Saints have been very good with their signings and retentions post Cunningham
with possibly the only exception being the retention of Percival for 5 years before he proved his fitness ( if he is/was fit then - a no brainier).
Can’t see Fages staying unfortunately. I think he’s a bit of a scapegoat in what is a very good team and he cops unfair levels of stick but when you think of Dodd’s development and Fages, likely wanting a 3+ year deal, we’re not going to keep both and it becomes a case of one or the other. It wouldn’t surprise me if we moved Fages on and got an aged NRL recruit for a year or two.
St Helens Rugby League Football Club
Given the abysmally low amount of opportunity Dodd has had on the pitch to develop his game at the top level, it'd be a massive gamble to throw him in at the end of the season. If it's our intention to let Fages go at the end of the season, then we should have already been giving Dodd minutes in games, and increasing this through the course of this year.
If Dodd isn't able to make the step-up, then we will struggle for the season and be scrabbling round for someone to step in - something that rarely pays off.
Is this fact? You’ve wrote the opening sentence as fact but it doesn’t seem it is.
I would have thought if Fages was leaving at the end of the year and Dodds was replacing him at 7 then we would have seen more from Dodd by now.
For me a lot rides on Coote. If he goes home and Welsby moves to FB we need a dominant half with a great kicking game, unfortunately Fages isn’t that. Word is that Dodds has a good kicking game and is a proper 7 however he hasn’t played enough first team yet to judge. Fages is a great defensive player and we wouldn’t have won the GF without him, a try saving tackle on Hardaker that no one else his size could have produced. That said could we score more points with a more dominant, attacking 7? Yes but these are also very hard to come by at the moment.
Personally I don’t see Fages at 9 as others seem keen on, he has been tried there before and wasn’t effective, his distribution wasn’t great and he doesn’t have the guile that a quality hooker needs. I really like Fages and would be sad to see him go but wouldn’t be totally surprised by it.
As one of those advocating for Fages to be given a go at hooker it’s for several reasons, and worth pointing out most want to see how he goes there a few times this year whilst providing the opportunity for Dodd to get some game time. I think it all boils down to the fact that we’ve got Dodd waiting to step in and neither Smith or Eaves are ready to step into Roby’s shoes. Now giving Dodd the 7 shirt next year would be a huge risk given his limited game time as would putting Fages at 9. It may all come down to whether Roby goes round again. I think the majority of fans want Theo to stay and a positional change could be the best way forwards for that to happen. As I’ve mentioned on another thread though, for all we know Fages might not be interested in a positional change and wants to play for a club who will play him where he wants. It’s all pure speculation at the moment though and will continue to be so until the futures of our OOC players are confirmed.
Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.
I can see him at Catalan next season tbh.
Hard to judge without knowing what's happening with Coote and Roby next year. A spine of Welsby, Lomax, Dodd, Smith/Eaves is a significant regression on what we have now with limited experience and pretty much no cover. It would be a huge amount of pressure on Lomax.
If Dodd is going to take over next year you'd expect to see him getting 15 games or so this season and an opportunity to push Fages out. I like the look of Eaves but he just can't get the game time and I don't get a sense from Smith that's he's got that extra level to his game. Would love to be proven wrong though.
If Fages is going then you'd have to hope at least one of Coote and Roby is sticking around next season. I can't think of anyone else who would offer better cover tbh if he's comfortable with a reduced role. Not an easy problem to solve but happy to trust the club on this one though, they've made some pretty good judgement calls on recruitment and retention in recent years.
We need to be really careful with our recruitment in the key positions next season and the season after. Having Coote, Fages and Roby out of contract and potentially leaving is not ideal at all.
If Coote and Roby were to stay for another season, I think letting Fages go makes sense to give Dodd and Welsby more opportunities in the halves but to expect Welsby, Dodd and Smith to all come in and replace Coote, Fages and Roby would be a very tough ask and unfair on those players aswell. The expectation could destroy their confidence.
We got the balance wrong back in 08/09/10 era when we let some key players go and replaced with younger players. It was unfair to expect Eastmond, Gaskell, Lomax etc run the team at their age and it coincided with a period of no success for us. We need to strike the balance right with trusting the young players but also giving enough experience alongside them to be able to grow into their roles.
Originally Posted by Despondent Dave
A really good point. However in 2021 a couple of things change the landscape.
Economics and the Pandemic - All clubs will need to rethink expenditure particularly overseas players. Every club will need to take a hit somewhere on the payroll and rely more on youth.
The new TV Deal will reinforce this.
The lack or Reserves and Pathway - All clubs will need to either put faith in youngsters or let them go and lose them possibly to the game.
Also other than the players mentioned the youth of that time were not good enough. Foster/Wheeler etc.
Nobody is advocating throwing 18 yearold juniors under the bus, but Aaron Smith is nearly 25 , Eaves is 23, so if they are not ready now they never will be.
Last edited by Gerry Mander; 9th April 2021 at 17:13.
Big decision for the club to make may hinge on what Roby and Cooke decide to do. .Can’t see Dodd being ready to play a full season at scrum half but obviously needs more game time. Fages is hitting his prime and would be confident of getting a good contract on the open market and I can’t see him signing a long contract with us knowing Dodd is breathing down his neck.