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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by roy litherland View Post
    Coote is an ultimate professional, with nothing to proove, he plays well in every game , Welsby has done well in his 2 games so far 'but' the lad is still under pressure to proove he has the 'quality' to be considered as an automatic choice in the first 13 to put a shirt on = Coote is without a shadow of a doubt in that 13 , Coote will play with Welsby in the Squad . Welsby will be in that first 13 for many years to come , Coote with age will slowly move down the pecking order .
    The notable and in fairness probably only exception to that being the CC Final, which was the last time he hadn't played a game in a long time. There were other factors at play in the final; 30 odd degrees and the whole team bottling it collectively. I hope Coote is ready obviously and do think he'll start. He might be physically ready. But will the sharpness and match fitness be there? I just think it's a fair enough question and don't think its necessarily a foregone conclusion that if fit he goes straight back in to a big game like this.

    Having said all that I can't actually remember the situation with the cup final I've tried to erase it from my memory. Was he rushed back and not properly fit? If so then I take most of that back!

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    Coote will play on Saturday. Percival has a strong chance too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roy litherland View Post
    Coote is an ultimate professional, with nothing to proove, he plays well in every game , Welsby has done well in his 2 games so far 'but' the lad is still under pressure to proove he has the 'quality' to be considered as an automatic choice in the first 13 to put a shirt on = Coote is without a shadow of a doubt in that 13 , Coote will play with Welsby in the Squad . Welsby will be in that first 13 for many years to come , Coote with age will slowly move down the pecking order .
    But as said, Warrington CC final proves, if there is any doubt over fitness, which how couldn’t their be with him not playing since November, then he can put in a stinker. Our next three games as said above are Wakefield, Hudds and Leigh, a much easier environment to get up to speed. It all comes down to how fit Coote actually is. No one is suggesting Welbsy is now first choice, but he may be the better choice compared to a half cooked Coote for this game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magic superbeetle View Post
    But as said, Warrington CC final proves, if there is any doubt over fitness, which how couldn’t their be with him not playing since November, then he can put in a stinker. Our next three games as said above are Wakefield, Hudds and Leigh, a much easier environment to get up to speed. It all comes down to how fit Coote actually is. No one is suggesting Welbsy is now first choice, but he may be the better choice compared to a half cooked Coote for this game.
    I agree with you mate. Welsby looked excellent at FB and if there's any doubts at all over Coote then that's decision made for me. Same with Percival/Simm too.

    We need our players right one things start getting tougher in the League.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrum Down View Post
    The notable and in fairness probably only exception to that being the CC Final, which was the last time he hadn't played a game in a long time. There were other factors at play in the final; 30 odd degrees and the whole team bottling it collectively. I hope Coote is ready obviously and do think he'll start. He might be physically ready. But will the sharpness and match fitness be there? I just think it's a fair enough question and don't think its necessarily a foregone conclusion that if fit he goes straight back in to a big game like this.

    Having said all that I can't actually remember the situation with the cup final I've tried to erase it from my memory. Was he rushed back and not properly fit? If so then I take most of that back!
    Like Hicks not going to the screen when Knowles scored. Still doesn't sit well with me that. I'm convinced we would have gone on to win the game

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJon View Post
    Like Hicks not going to the screen when Knowles scored. Still doesn't sit well with me that. I'm convinced we would have gone on to win the game
    It was the turning point - and, given the fears expressed by Saints prior to the game about Hicks' selection following his incident with Wire, left it open to accusations of bias towards Wire. Given it was a legitimate try, Hicks could not have been sure it wasn't a try so should have sent it upstairs.

    It's a decision that stinks as much now as it did then.

    There was also the incident where Wire knocked-on into the Saints player, and Hicks gave Wire the ball; Wire scored in the following set.
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    Why would anyone want to leave Coote out if he is fit ? Bizarre . Strongest team plays in a cup tie regardless of who we play or what their team is . Leave nothing to chance !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    I’m not sure why we would go with a rotated side for a cup game against a half decent Super League side, injuries or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    It was the turning point - and, given the fears expressed by Saints prior to the game about Hicks' selection following his incident with Wire, left it open to accusations of bias towards Wire. Given it was a legitimate try, Hicks could not have been sure it wasn't a try so should have sent it upstairs.

    It's a decision that stinks as much now as it did then.

    There was also the incident where Wire knocked-on into the Saints player, and Hicks gave Wire the ball; Wire scored in the following set.
    What fears by us? The only fears were from fans and not anyone in authority at the club. It was only when the final was done and it looked a bit bitter when McManus mouthed off as he did that I can remember anything from the club.

    Hicks was Hicks in that final. There’s no way he was bent. He was highly incompetent but he is every week. He shouldn’t be in with a shout of refereeing a final again, not until his performances improve immeasurably.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    What fears by us? The only fears were from fans and not anyone in authority at the club. It was only when the final was done and it looked a bit bitter when McManus mouthed off as he did that I can remember anything from the club.

    Hicks was Hicks in that final. There’s no way he was bent. He was highly incompetent but he is every week. He shouldn’t be in with a shout of refereeing a final again, not until his performances improve immeasurably.
    I thought Saints had registered misgivings beforehand, but if they didn't and it was just fans, then my mistake.

    If you don't think the Warrington 'death threat' and subsequent love-in had any impact on his thinking at all, even subconsciously, then that's your opinion.

    I think ruling out the Knowles try and refusing to send it upstairs calls into more than just his competence because he cannot have seen it as not a try.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I thought Saints had registered misgivings beforehand, but if they didn't and it was just fans, then my mistake.

    If you don't think the Warrington 'death threat' and subsequent love-in had any impact on his thinking at all, even subconsciously, then that's your opinion.

    I think ruling out the Knowles try and refusing to send it upstairs calls into more than just his competence because he cannot have seen it as not a try.
    Captains challenge needed for big games?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    Captains challenge needed for big games?
    I would like to see that, although realistically I can only see it happening when every game in the SL or CC has video refs.

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    I see we have Ben Thaler for the weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I thought Saints had registered misgivings beforehand, but if they didn't and it was just fans, then my mistake.

    If you don't think the Warrington 'death threat' and subsequent love-in had any impact on his thinking at all, even subconsciously, then that's your opinion.

    I think ruling out the Knowles try and refusing to send it upstairs calls into more than just his competence because he cannot have seen it as not a try.
    I think it had no bearing. If it would have, you’d have expected it to go in our favour rather than there’s. He was just himself. Highly incompetent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tilly2006 View Post
    I see we have Ben Thaler for the weekend.
    Best put a few pies in each in-goal area see if that encourages him to keep up with play

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Don View Post
    Captains challenge needed for big games?
    It has to come sooner than later, the inconsistency of refs is still shocking. Nice to have 2 Captains Challeges Reviews one in each half.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    It has to come sooner than later, the inconsistency of refs is still shocking. Nice to have 2 Captains Challeges Reviews one in each half.
    I’d rather the sport just invested into their referees rather than crap structure change after crap structure change or paying some mouthpiece six figures to be used as a toy between 4-5 club owners.
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    [QUOTE=magic superbeetle;815629]But as said, Warrington CC final proves, if there is any doubt over fitness, which how couldnít their be with him not playing since November, then he can put in a stinker. Our next three games as said above are Wakefield, Hudds and Leigh, a much easier environment to get up to speed. It all comes down to how fit Coote actually is. No one is suggesting Welbsy is now first choice, but he may be the better choice compared to a half cooked Coote for this game.[/QUOTE/}

    The position Coote plays means any errors will probably be highlighted. Given Leeds are short of men on Saturday I would be tempted to leave young Welsby in there and gradually ease Coote back in against weaker opposition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    I’d rather the sport just invested into their referees rather than crap structure change after crap structure change or paying some mouthpiece six figures to be used as a toy between 4-5 club owners.

    This.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I thought Saints had registered misgivings beforehand, but if they didn't and it was just fans, then my mistake.

    If you don't think the Warrington 'death threat' and subsequent love-in had any impact on his thinking at all, even subconsciously, then that's your opinion.

    I think ruling out the Knowles try and refusing to send it upstairs calls into more than just his competence because he cannot have seen it as not a try.
    It didn't look like a try from where I was sitting and nobody around me even questioned the call not to go to the screen at the time. It was a major surprise to everyone when we saw it on the screen. However, yes, he should have referred it upstairs to be sure.

    Back to the original post and Leeds won't be as weak as is made out. How many of those 9 would have started? The pack will still be strong, at least, and given that we play a forward based game, there can be no room for even the odd player rested, because that battle ground up front won't be much altered by the team news coming from Leeds.

    If Coote is fit, then he must play. I'd move Welsby to left centre and wouldn't contemplate risking Percival, given that in every comeback game for the last 12 months, he has broken down. That risk can be taken in a league game when any loss of points is recoverable.
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    Luke Gale the latest to drop. Out for 2-3 weeks.


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    Quote Originally Posted by theres only one stan wall View Post
    Luke Gale the latest to drop. Out for 2-3 weeks.
    Mind games can be very powerful.
    Could even result in a Leeds victory.
    Stay focused Saints

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    Quote Originally Posted by theres only one stan wall View Post
    Luke Gale the latest to drop. Out for 2-3 weeks.
    And Eastmond to make his debut apparently. Leeds are looking fairly strong in the pack but massively inexperienced in the backs with only Tom Briscoe available out of their 1st choice. Theyíre looking at a backline of:
    J Broadbent
    T Briscoe, C Hall, A Sutcliffe, L Briscoe
    L Sutcliffe, K Eastmond

    If we canít beat a team missing a backline of Myler, Walker, Newman, Hurrell, Handley, Lui & Gale then we should be very worried. At least we wonít have to listen to Sky rhapsodise about Eastmondís debut as if itís the 2nd coming of Christ.
    Forwards win games. The backs decide by how much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wee Waa Womble View Post
    And Eastmond to make his debut apparently. Leeds are looking fairly strong in the pack but massively inexperienced in the backs with only Tom Briscoe available out of their 1st choice. Theyíre looking at a backline of:
    J Broadbent
    T Briscoe, C Hall, A Sutcliffe, L Briscoe
    L Sutcliffe, K Eastmond

    If we canít beat a team missing a backline of Myler, Walker, Newman, Hurrell, Handley, Lui & Gale then we should be very worried. At least we wonít have to listen to Sky rhapsodise about Eastmondís debut as if itís the 2nd coming of Christ.
    Think we will all be interested to see how Eastmond goes while giving him a virtual V on Saturday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    It has to come sooner than later, the inconsistency of refs is still shocking. Nice to have 2 Captains Challeges Reviews one in each half.
    I'm not sure on the stats... but what you tend to see with the Captain's Challenge rule in the NRL, is the original decision by the officials on the field is right more often than not. Also, what has started to happen is players are using the rule for tactical advantage- in the Titans vs Raiders game last weekend, Rapana clearly put on a shepherd, yet he decided to challenge to give his team an extra rest whilst the bunker reviewed. At a time when they were really under the pump. I'm not sure I'd want see more of that.

    On the Saints vs Leeds game, all the pressure will be on St Helens but they should win comfortably given Leeds' long list of absentees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrum Down View Post
    Best put a few pies in each in-goal area see if that encourages him to keep up with play
    Think he's already eaten all the pies mate!

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