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Thread: Eastmond back in League

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    It's not necessarily that. Graham went to Aus for a bumper payrise with the universal best wishes of fans ringing in his ears.

    All about the manner of leaving. And, in terms of Eastmond's move to Leeds, not trying to bullsh*t the reasons ('timing'=money).
    And this highlights the difference between the two in terms of attitude and loyalty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    I'm not so sure. Even if Wane decides to exclude Hastings & Austen, at the moment if I was picking the side my halves would be Gale & Williams. The utility on the interchange would be between Widdop, Lomax and now potentially Eastmond. I also think he will make Leeds' 17 and as others have said, Myler, Gale, Eastmond isn't bad for them. Plus Dwyer/Leeming at 9 as well.



    I don't think what I've said is 'ridiculous' Wee Waa, do you want to present Lomax's stats at international level? Playing at full back or in the halves? At centre even. Don't get me wrong, Lomax is a very good SL player who has done very well for Saints for the last couple of years, though I think it's fair to say Lomax hasn't pulled up any trees at that level. I do not watch union and so can't comment on what Eastmond has done in that code. Let's see what he can do now he's back in RL, as per my original comments when the news broke. To be clear, I think the attributes I said he had (footwork, acceleration and ability to bust out of tackles) were superior to those of Lomax when they played together or that Lomax has ever demonstrated. So if he does still have it, he could very well play international level again and perhaps at the expense of Lomax.

    Regards,

    STEVO
    I would probably go Gale at 7 and Lomax at 6. Though Wane may lean to Williams. No idea how you get Widdop in there. He was anonymous the whole of last season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    I'm not so sure. Even if Wane decides to exclude Hastings & Austen, at the moment if I was picking the side my halves would be Gale & Williams. The utility on the interchange would be between Widdop, Lomax and now potentially Eastmond. I also think he will make Leeds' 17 and as others have said, Myler, Gale, Eastmond isn't bad for them. Plus Dwyer/Leeming at 9 as well.



    I don't think what I've said is 'ridiculous' Wee Waa, do you want to present Lomax's stats at international level? Playing at full back or in the halves? At centre even. Don't get me wrong, Lomax is a very good SL player who has done very well for Saints for the last couple of years, though I think it's fair to say Lomax hasn't pulled up any trees at that level. I do not watch union and so can't comment on what Eastmond has done in that code. Let's see what he can do now he's back in RL, as per my original comments when the news broke. To be clear, I think the attributes I said he had (footwork, acceleration and ability to bust out of tackles) were superior to those of Lomax when they played together or that Lomax has ever demonstrated. So if he does still have it, he could very well play international level again and perhaps at the expense of Lomax.

    Regards,

    STEVO
    Very similar thoughts, I would imagine Williams would be our no 6 (100%) and then Gale/Hastings at 7. Our Lomax is very much a utility player at international level, I,m not sure if Wane would have him at full back linking up with the halves, he may well try something different.

    I can't see Eastmond making an impression very quickly in Rugby League to be selected at international level, I should imagine he would be out of the Leeds team once Gale and Lui are back together. Its also a bad image that Eastmond can't get a regular start in Union at club level and then suddenly becomes a rugby league international player, we should have better options and I,m pretty sure Wane will recognise that.

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    In today's article on the St Helens Star website about Eastmond it says:-

    "...He then spent the next nine years in the 15-man code with Bath, Wasps and Leicester and played for England in 2013 and 2014
    but left the Tigers last July after reportedly refusing to take a pay cut and is now back in Super League after signing a two-year deal with Leeds Rhinos.
    Phil Vievers...Balls...Joan Collins...Try...Orgasmic... RH the living legend.


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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    Very similar thoughts, I would imagine Williams would be our no 6 (100%) and then Gale/Hastings at 7. Our Lomax is very much a utility player at international level, I,m not sure if Wane would have him at full back linking up with the halves, he may well try something different.
    Completely agree. Wane is going to pick Williams at 6, he rates him highly, brought him into the Wigan team at 19-20 and gave him the full-time 6 shirt very soon after. I've no issue with that really and I think Lomax is better suited to being a versatile 14 who can come in at 6 or 1 as the situation merits. 7 is up for grabs, and both can win the shirt based on what they do this season.

    What we don't yet know is Wane's attitude to picking eligible Aussies if English born players are available for the same spots. Bennett picked anybody he could find (all within the rules) but I think Wane will be a bit more choosy about this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoofeHearted View Post
    In today's article on the St Helens Star website about Eastmond it says:-

    "...He then spent the next nine years in the 15-man code with Bath, Wasps and Leicester and played for England in 2013 and 2014
    but left the Tigers last July after reportedly refusing to take a pay cut and is now back in Super League after signing a two-year deal with Leeds Rhinos.
    TBF to Eastmond why should he take a pay cut?? We wouldn't from our jobs if we had the choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Completely agree. Wane is going to pick Williams at 6, he rates him highly, brought him into the Wigan team at 19-20 and gave him the full-time 6 shirt very soon after. I've no issue with that really and I think Lomax is better suited to being a versatile 14 who can come in at 6 or 1 as the situation merits. 7 is up for grabs, and both can win the shirt based on what they do this season.

    What we don't yet know is Wane's attitude to picking eligible Aussies if English born players are available for the same spots. Bennett picked anybody he could find (all within the rules) but I think Wane will be a bit more choosy about this.
    I get the impression from some interviews I've heard with him that he'll prefer an 'actual' Englishman over a a heritage player. I think he'll still pick a heritage player if they declare for England and are significantly better, or work better within the team, as he sees it but if they offer the same as an Englishman then he'll favour the Englishman.

    Here's a couple of printed examples from last year (hopefully they work):
    https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post...s-for-england/

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby...lines-22202225

    I think he'll try and get away from the bennet style of picking any old Aussie who fancies it but can't get into the Australia team. I could be reading too much into it but he mentions patriotism a lot and I think that'll be a factor for him.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    lestyn Harris, Lee Smith, Joel Tomkins, Chev Walker, Henry Paul, Sam Burgess (off the top of my head) all returned from yawnion half the player that they were previously.


    Not true. Joel Tomkins was always sh*te.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJon View Post
    TBF to Eastmond why should he take a pay cut?? We wouldn't from our jobs if we had the choice.
    He was under no obligation to do so, but given the current circumstances and Leicester making many people behind the scenes redundant it was rather selfish to flatly refuse a cut. Also comparing us to him is a straw man argument, most of us arent on 6 figure salaries and in a position to take a temporary pay cut that would have been paid back later on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaintJon View Post
    TBF to Eastmond why should he take a pay cut?? We wouldn't from our jobs if we had the choice.
    Was this a pay cut due to Covid? Like many/most players of both codes (and many in football) have agreed to, given the extraordinary circumstances? And many 'ordinary working people' have had to?

    He's presumably been out of a job and earning nothing since then, so probably lost out hugely. Wonder if he still has the same agent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    lestyn Harris, Lee Smith, Joel Tomkins, Chev Walker, Henry Paul, Sam Burgess (off the top of my head) all returned from yawnion half the player that they were previously.
    Not sure Sam Burgess returned as half the player he was, i just think the damage to his shoulder finally caught up with him, given he had 2 reconstructions very closely together before he went to Union, continuing problems when he returned and ended up retiring because of it. The rest i agree with, although in Tomkins case, as Webbo says, he was shite to begin with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by guns86 View Post
    I get the impression from some interviews I've heard with him that he'll prefer an 'actual' Englishman over a a heritage player. I think he'll still pick a heritage player if they declare for England and are significantly better, or work better within the team, as he sees it but if they offer the same as an Englishman then he'll favour the Englishman.
    I think that'll be the case. There will be exceptions and Hastings may be one if Wane thinks he's far and away the best option at 7, but I think they'll be rare. There really is little need to do it either. If you have 25 players who are good enough to get in the squad it isn't a good look to draft in eligible Aussies to fill spots IMO. And the old argument that they had NRL experience and are used to a higher level of footy is meaning less and less when so many English players are either there or have been there in the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    He was under no obligation to do so, but given the current circumstances and Leicester making many people behind the scenes redundant it was rather selfish to flatly refuse a cut. Also comparing us to him is a straw man argument, most of us arent on 6 figure salaries and in a position to take a temporary pay cut that would have been paid back later on.
    I didn't even take into consideration COVID when writing my previous post. If it was COVID related then fair enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Completely agree. Wane is going to pick Williams at 6, he rates him highly, brought him into the Wigan team at 19-20 and gave him the full-time 6 shirt very soon after. I've no issue with that really and I think Lomax is better suited to being a versatile 14 who can come in at 6 or 1 as the situation merits. 7 is up for grabs, and both can win the shirt based on what they do this season.

    What we don't yet know is Wane's attitude to picking eligible Aussies if English born players are available for the same spots. Bennett picked anybody he could find (all within the rules) but I think Wane will be a bit more choosy about this.
    I'm not so sure Graham. Williams plays 7 every week in the NRL so could easily play 7 for England. I also know 100% that Wane really rates Lomax

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Completely agree. Wane is going to pick Williams at 6, he rates him highly, brought him into the Wigan team at 19-20 and gave him the full-time 6 shirt very soon after. I've no issue with that really and I think Lomax is better suited to being a versatile 14 who can come in at 6 or 1 as the situation merits. 7 is up for grabs, and both can win the shirt based on what they do this season.

    What we don't yet know is Wane's attitude to picking eligible Aussies if English born players are available for the same spots. Bennett picked anybody he could find (all within the rules) but I think Wane will be a bit more choosy about this.
    Williams does play 7/the lead half at Canberra and formed a really good partnership with Wighton last year. I think he's the one to have a spot nailed down in the halves. Not just because Wane knows him very well, because he's the best half we currently have I think.

    It's then about Gale, Lomax, Widdop and potentially Eastmond etc. fighting for a couple spots as a half, full back or utility. I forgot to mention Jake Connor before to add to the mix. He could maybe be that utility for the interchange, I believe he will be starting the season at full back this year at Hull FC. This said, Wane may want to have two out and out hookers in the 17 though and so brings Clark, Hodgson, Dwyer maybe, etc. into the conundrum. There's Sam Tomkins to consider as well and Evalds for full back, so quite a few options.

    Good to read there are a few on here who don't just follow the game through Saints rose-tinted glasses!

    Regards,

    STEVO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    I'm not so sure Graham. Williams plays 7 every week in the NRL so could easily play 7 for England. I also know 100% that Wane really rates Lomax
    No doubt, both are true, but Williams can play both roles well and I think there's more need for him at 6 with decent options at 7. I'm just not sure about Lomax at 6 at Test level. He definitely gets in my 17, he's a very good player, but I think he'd be better utilised off the bench and allowed a bit more freedom than having to play a structured role at 6. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe goes Lomax and Williams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    No doubt, both are true, but Williams can play both roles well and I think there's more need for him at 6 with decent options at 7. I'm just not sure about Lomax at 6 at Test level. He definitely gets in my 17, he's a very good player, but I think he'd be better utilised off the bench and allowed a bit more freedom than having to play a structured role at 6. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe goes Lomax and Williams.
    Who are you backing for the full back spot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Stephenson View Post
    Williams does play 7/the lead half at Canberra and formed a really good partnership with Wighton last year. I think he's the one to have a spot nailed down in the halves. Not just because Wane knows him very well, because he's the best half we currently have I think.

    It's then about Gale, Lomax, Widdop and potentially Eastmond etc. fighting for a couple spots as a half, full back or utility.
    As I just stated, the call for Williams at 7 is fair enough, and I agree with you that he'll be in the team either way. Where I disagree is any mention of Widdop. He has had his time to shine in a Test jumper and has IMO been fairly average if steady throughout. He was the prime example of a player being shunted above others as good as him because he played in Australia. He's a decent player but he shouldn't be getting in the England team ahead of Lomax or Gale for example. I'd be surprised if he made the 17 and there's a shout for him only making the squad as an emergency option really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Who are you backing for the full back spot?
    Wide open IMO. The Wane fallback option is Tomkins of course, but I wouldn't rule out Myler if he continues his progression in the position at Leeds, and Evalds is now at Cas and should be in contention based on what he's done at Salford. I'm not sure who'd I'd go with right now, but luckily we don't need to choose right now

    I assume we're ruling Blake Austin out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    As I just stated, the call for Williams at 7 is fair enough, and I agree with you that he'll be in the team either way. Where I disagree is any mention of Widdop. He has had his time to shine in a Test jumper and has IMO been fairly average if steady throughout. He was the prime example of a player being shunted above others as good as him because he played in Australia. He's a decent player but he shouldn't be getting in the England team ahead of Lomax or Gale for example. I'd be surprised if he made the 17 and there's a shout for him only making the squad as an emergency option really.
    I'd have Williams at 6 or 7, doesn't really matter and as I've said, if I was picking the team now my halves would be Gale & Williams. It's the utility on the interchange which is the headache because I'd still have Roby at 9 but it's a big ask of him to play for the 80 another year older and at that level etc. So I'd say Clark on the bench to provide some freshness and dynamism. If Roby decides internationals are no longer for him or there's a drop off in his level which could happen, I'd start with Clark. Josh Hodgson is so influential at The Raiders but he has to prove he can come back from that serious knee injury he had and he doesn't really have that speed out of dummy half, he'd have to start the games- he doesn't have the skill set for an impact player of the bench so then you'd be looking at Dwyer or another pivot who's dynamic such as Connor or the wild card in Eastmond *if he still has his speed of course.

    On Widdop, he really didn't prove good value for his marquee contract at Wire last year but has been around the England set up for a number of years, so that's why I referenced him. The names were in no particular order. His biggest strength is his goal kicking, but if you've got Gale in the team, that's covered. If Gale isn't performing this year or suffers another serious injury then it's another rethink. We just need to find a balance/ find a way of getting more creativity and speed in to the pivot positions I think.

    Regards,

    STEVO
    Last edited by Mike Stephenson; 4th March 2021 at 13:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Wide open IMO. The Wane fallback option is Tomkins of course, but I wouldn't rule out Myler if he continues his progression in the position at Leeds, and Evalds is now at Cas and should be in contention based on what he's done at Salford. I'm not sure who'd I'd go with right now, but luckily we don't need to choose right now

    I assume we're ruling Blake Austin out?
    I just can't have Tomkins at full back. One of Bennett's big things is having players who don't give possession away or make mistakes and you can understand why.

    At international level Australia's completion rate is very, very high and possession and territory are key. I'm not sure we can go with someone who does'nt command confidence fielding kicks, who drifts in and out of games and has a couple of turnovers in him.

    Its like people still think he's the player he was 10 years ago when he isn't. I'm happy to rule out the likes of Austin, Coote etc from selection for the reasons we all know, but there has to be a better option than Tomkins. I like Evalds but again how confident are we that he steps up...?

    Ultimately there's a question as to what spine Wane wants. If we talk 1, 6,7 and 9 the 9 is the easiest. Roby is the best hooker we've got assuming he wants to go again and isn't injured and Clark is a good interchange but the rest of the spine is up for debate. Will Wane put Lomax at full back and go Williams at 7; if so who goes 6? Does he go with old favourite Tomkins at 1? The problem as I see it is there are'nt enough quality players at 1, 6 and 7 collectively to make us confident in whatever he does go with. As a League we really need to be developing players through all positions not just the pack.

    Anyone banging on about Widdop needs a reality check - he was poor last year and has always been overated in my book. He has a lot of work today to get anywhere near Lomax or some of the others like Connor imo. I will say that Jake Connor strikes me as someone who'd rub Wane up the wrong way but lets see.

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    Shows how desperate the game is throwing money at Eastmond. Frankly he is overrated as a player and a rat of a person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Who are you backing for the full back spot?
    We are fairly average for the full back role, Tomkins, Hardaker, Lomax, Myler, Widdop and Connor are not really quality who can defend and attack with a high degree of capability. Probably Tomkins is more of a threat in attack but his defence can be a bit iffy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STIDDY View Post
    We are fairly average for the full back role, Tomkins, Hardaker, Lomax, Myler, Widdop and Connor are not really quality who can defend and attack with a high degree of capability. Probably Tomkins is more of a threat in attack but his defence can be a bit iffy.
    Throw in the likes of Evalds, O’Brien and Ratchford, but i agree, there isnt really a player who stands out and is the one you would go with.

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    Anybody suggesting Eastwood for England before he has even played a game is a joker.

    He’s not played any rugby for a year, league for nearly 10 but he’s going to potentially displace the half who’s just won 2LLS and 2 GF in 3 seasons?

    Wane isn’t as easily fooled as our fake pundit.
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