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Thread: Life, Politics, Society, Beer

  1. #176
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    I agree but I don’t think it’s helpful to label people. The media magnify the flaws of the right and left to off the other side and create division. When in truth most people float around the middle and 80% of the population agree on 80% of issues.
    I saw a recent interview with Jordan Peterson in which he said the greatest thing the establishment fear is a united society because a united society awaken and channel their anger towards those in power.
    I don’t think the government relish having a majority because then they have no excuse for not making real change. It’s all a show. A political party make a lot of promises, get voted in with a majority and then after that it’s scandal after scandal over a 2 or 3 year period that manifests in a PM quitting, snap election, hung parliament, coalition, strong opposition, weaker government and no real changes. The same cycle goes around every few years.

    The identity politics issue is bad. It’s forced with an agenda to create a mentality where people are put into boxes. It’s there to create division and segregation whereby people judge others based on their skin colour or sexuality and not their character. But there again, the media on both sides grift off of this. Right wing media portray the left as mentally unhinged and the left wing media label all conservatives as nazi bigots. In truth, most conservative thinkers don’t care if 2 men wanna get married just like most liberal thinkers know that it’s wrong for a man to participate in women sports for example.
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  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post

    The identity politics issue is bad. It’s forced with an agenda to create a mentality where people are put into boxes. It’s there to create division and segregation whereby people judge others based on their skin colour or sexuality and not their character. But there again, the media on both sides grift off of this. Right wing media portray the left as mentally unhinged and the left wing media label all conservatives as nazi bigots. In truth, most conservative thinkers don’t care if 2 men wanna get married just like most liberal thinkers know that it’s wrong for a man to participate in women sports for example.
    If Badenoch wins (and I hope she does), I’d back her to stare down disgusting imports from the US such as identity politics and CRT and consign them to the sewer where they belong. She’d also expose the hypocrisy of the postmodern left.

  3. #178
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    If Badenoch wins (and I hope she does), I’d back her to stare down disgusting imports from the US such as identity politics and CRT and consign them to the sewer where they belong. She’d also expose the hypocrisy of the postmodern left.
    Yeh. I like what bits ive seen of her but I haven’t seen much and don’t know where she sits on a lot of issues. She does seem to talk sense though. I see the guardian have already labelled her a sort of poster child for the far right. Typical.
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  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Yeh. I like what bits ive seen of her but I haven’t seen much and don’t know where she sits on a lot of issues. She does seem to talk sense though. I see the guardian have already labelled her a sort of poster child for the far right. Typical.
    The Guardian is little more than a sixth form common room rag. It ceased any relevance as a serious journalistic production years ago. The likes of Jones and Sarkar are totally laughable.

    The irony of them moaning about fascism, far right and just about any other smear they can throw at people who have the temerity to disagree with them whilst resisting just about any policy to effectively police the border is not missed. Its like, erm if this country is so bad chaps, then why are people so desperate to come?

    Another book recommendation, Fishy… Konstantin Kisin’s Love Letter to the West. As for Badenoch she is a small state, low tax politician. How this all translates into detailed policy is going to become clearer.

  5. #180
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    The Guardian is little more than a sixth form common room rag. It ceased any relevance as a serious journalistic production years ago. The likes of Jones and Sarkar are totally laughable.

    The irony of them moaning about fascism, far right and just about any other smear they can throw at people who have the temerity to disagree with them whilst resisting just about any policy to effectively police the border is not missed. Its like, erm if this country is so bad chaps, then why are people so desperate to come?

    Another book recommendation, Fishy… Konstantin Kisin’s Love Letter to the West. As for Badenoch she is a small state, low tax politician. How this all translates into detailed policy is going to become clearer.
    Yeh i heard her say something about smaller less intrusive government. I’m all for that!!
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  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Yeh i heard her say something about smaller less intrusive government. I’m all for that!!
    Last edited by eddiewaringsflatcap; 31st August 2022 at 13:34.

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    Good job we didn’t get the chaos that Ed Miliband was going to inflict on the country.

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  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    As much as I despise the Guardian the bottom line is this government are a total shambles and despise trade unionism. They deserve a long slow death and a good sit on an opposition bench.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    As much as I despise the Guardian the bottom line is this government are a total shambles and despise trade unionism. They deserve a long slow death and a good sit on an opposition bench.
    What changed you tune?

  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    What changed you tune?
    In what sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    In what sense?
    Just re-read your previous posts, obviously this government is far too left leaning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Just re-read your previous posts, obviously this government is far too left leaning.
    That may be your conclusion, certainly isn't mine nor necessarily of people of lets say, Maurice Glassman.

  14. #189
    Got A Season Ticket Brian Nazareth's Avatar
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    Sturgeon to resign.

    Seismic

    She's hated by many, but is the best politician of any of the party leaders. I can foresee a bit of a civil war within the SNP now, as different wings have re-emerged seeking different directions.

    Labour will be rubbing its hands.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Nazareth View Post
    Sturgeon to resign.

    Seismic

    She's hated by many, but is the best politician of any of the party leaders. I can foresee a bit of a civil war within the SNP now, as different wings have re-emerged seeking different directions.

    Labour will be rubbing its hands.
    If shes the best then the bar isnt very high, she was doomed when she introduced legislation that could put 50% of the population at risk.

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    Scotland has a great deal of autotomy outside the UK government, the West Lothian question has never been satisfactorily answered. Therfore the SNP will always be stuck between a pig and and a poke:

    On the one hand they are in charge of the Scottish parliament and govern Scotland, if they do this very well then it weakens their independence ideology, since if things are going so well for Scotland within the UK, why change anything?

    On the other-hand if they don't do a good job but just blame Westminster for all of Scotland's woes (see the EU and the Tory governments), then you are left with the the fact that they aren't very good at running things so why would we want to follow them, unless it is through jingoistic petty nationalism.

    Nicola Sturgeon realised this and tried to cause fights with the UK over anything and everything to mobilise the cheap nationalism. The Gender Reform act was done only to provoke the UK government into (rightly IMO) intervening.

  17. #192
    Got A Season Ticket Brian Nazareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    If shes the best then the bar isnt very high, she was doomed when she introduced legislation that could put 50% of the population at risk.
    Well we got to the 'trans issue' rather quickly.

    FWIW, I view it as an incredibly complex and nuanced debate where I can appreciate parts of both 'sides' of the argument. But I'm not getting embroiled in a debate on it, as it soon turns toxic with zealots from both ends of the argument soon getting into 'unpleasantness' territory and descend into hurling cliched ad homs at each other.

    Every politician that has dipped a toe into the topic has been scalded. Some have recoiled quickly and walked away, others have stuck their whole foot in it and reaped the subsequent whirlwind. That's why most senior politicians choose to keep kicking the can down the road.
    He's not the Messiah, he's a naughty boy.

  18. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Nazareth View Post
    Well we got to the 'trans issue' rather quickly.

    FWIW, I view it as an incredibly complex and nuanced debate where I can appreciate parts of both 'sides' of the argument. But I'm not getting embroiled in a debate on it, as it soon turns toxic with zealots from both ends of the argument soon getting into 'unpleasantness' territory and descend into hurling cliched ad homs at each other.

    Every politician that has dipped a toe into the topic has been scalded. Some have recoiled quickly and walked away, others have stuck their whole foot in it and reaped the subsequent whirlwind. That's why most senior politicians choose to keep kicking the can down the road.
    Its the issue that’s ultimately pushed her to resign, i dont think we should be blind to that. Its an issue far more complex than a single bill pushed through with little consultation with 50% of the population, people that the change would have greatly affected.

  19. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Its the issue that’s ultimately pushed her to resign, i dont think we should be blind to that. Its an issue far more complex than a single bill pushed through with little consultation with 50% of the population, people that the change would have greatly affected.

    Maybe it is. But worth noting that this was a cross-party bill, 6 years in the making, was very similar to the one the UK govt (under May) were looking at before they shelved it, voted for in the SP by all the LD's and Greens, most of the SNP and Labour, plus 3 Tories.
    He's not the Messiah, he's a naughty boy.

  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Nazareth View Post
    Maybe it is. But worth noting that this was a cross-party bill, 6 years in the making, was very similar to the one the UK govt (under May) were looking at before they shelved it, voted for in the SP by all the LD's and Greens, most of the SNP and Labour, plus 3 Tories.
    If she really believed in this then she should have bided her time and pushed for Uk wide legislation (since it was already a consideration from the May gov). But she knew the current gov wants to stoke cultural wars (since they have run out of ideas) so she deliberately forced this on the Scottish people to generate conflict with the UK government to further stoke her petty nationalist agenda.

    It all blew up in her face with the Scottish rapist just claiming to be a woman. However this highlighted that such a complex issue cannot be distilled down to a binary argument.

    She spent all her political energy on independence and neglected the most vulnerable people of Scotland (drug deaths one of the highest in Europe) the NHS significantly worse than the rest of the UK, totally neglecting the highlands with the farcical ferry contracts etc…

    The SNP have always just been a protest party tapping into discontent of the middle income (traditional labour) people of the central belt.

    They have had 2 decades of government in Scotland if Scotland is still struggling then they are to blame.

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    If she really believed in this then she should have bided her time and pushed for Uk wide legislation (since it was already a consideration from the May gov). But she knew the current gov wants to stoke cultural wars (since they have run out of ideas) so she deliberately forced this on the Scottish people to generate conflict with the UK government to further stoke her petty nationalist agenda.

    It all blew up in her face with the Scottish rapist just claiming to be a woman. However this highlighted that such a complex issue cannot be distilled down to a binary argument.

    She spent all her political energy on independence and neglected the most vulnerable people of Scotland (drug deaths one of the highest in Europe) the NHS significantly worse than the rest of the UK, totally neglecting the highlands with the farcical ferry contracts etc…

    The SNP have always just been a protest party tapping into discontent of the middle income (traditional labour) people of the central belt.

    They have had 2 decades of government in Scotland if Scotland is still struggling then they are to blame.


    I agree with you on the motives for driving through the GRR. She knew what she was doing, and that the UK Govt would likely respond as they did.

    Disagree on much of the rest. Remember that the Scottish Parliament has its hands tied in terms of funding, with only a very small amount of leeway to raise taxation levels slightly. They suffer from the savage cuts to public services that the UK as a whole has had to endure since 2010. Not saying the SNP government is totally blameless, because they've made some mistakes. But when public services across the UK are being deliberately underfunded, blaming the SNP for problems that afflict the UK nationally is a little unfair.


    Looking at the candidates to have so far thrown their hat in the ring isn't very inspiring. I can foresee a rise if factionalism in the SNP, and reckon people will look back on the past several years as a high water mark for the party.

    Pity, as I'd like to see the UK fragment.
    He's not the Messiah, he's a naughty boy.

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