Chapel House Motor Company Limited Advertising Banner
Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 2345678 LastLast
Results 126 to 150 of 198

Thread: Life, Politics, Society, Beer

  1. #126
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Refugee from the fascist state of RLFans
    Posts
    5,853
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    Did you watch series 1-3? That might help

    I’ve only watched one episode of series 4, it was excellent. Looking forward to watching the rest
    Love it. Watched it from the start with my eldest, and we re-watched 1-3 with my youngest last year to catch up.

    Really enjoying season 4 so far.

    The 80s nostalgia trip is the icing on the [upside down] cake.

  2. #127
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    earth
    Posts
    12,084
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Love it. Watched it from the start with my eldest, and we re-watched 1-3 with my youngest last year to catch up.

    Really enjoying season 4 so far.

    The 80s nostalgia trip is the icing on the [upside down] cake.
    I enjoyed season 1 when the 80’s references were subtle and it had more of a horror feel. By season 3 the 80’s references felt way too OTT. And them managing to hide the construction of a ginormous Russian military base beneath the town was daft.

    One of the best things Ive seen on Netflix is Mindhunter. Brilliant show. I’m gutted though because apparently theres a stalemate between David Fincher and Netflix. Season 3 may never happen
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

  3. #128
    Learning All The Songs Two Wheeled Saint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Haydock
    Age
    56
    Posts
    2,110
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    The challenge is to join this club and have a beer here
    https://goo.gl/maps/6UdCyjSQuDfCjMR68

  4. #129
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,518
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Damn thatís a long post. No way i could knock that up working 40 hours a week plus spending time with family. Credit to you
    Is English not your first language then, or are the long and well constructed sentences too long for you? Can you only cope with three word sound bites?

  5. #130
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    earth
    Posts
    12,084
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Is English not your first language then, or are the long and well constructed sentences too long for you? Can you only cope with three word sound bites?
    Yes thats me.
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

  6. #131
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wilts
    Posts
    5,346
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Yes thats me.
    Brilliant.

  7. #132
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Refugee from the fascist state of RLFans
    Posts
    5,853
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Is English not your first language then, or are the long and well constructed sentences too long for you? Can you only cope with three word sound bites?

    "Take back control"?

    "Get Brexit Done"?




    Anyway, possible light at the end of the tunnel with the beginning of the end of Bozo and hopefully that whole rotten, corrupt shower of sh*te that are government. Hoping they go for Truss - she's thick as mince and would be destroyed at the Dispatch Box.

    Long-time Bozo supporter Jesse Norman MP really putting the boot in with their letter.

    Criticises Bozo's threats to rescind the NIP, the Rwanda migrant camp, draconian anti-protest laws, privatisation of C4, and centralising power within No10.

    I do wonder how many of those policies Norman publicly supported/voted for along the way, though...

    https://twitter.com/Jesse_Norman/sta...403393/photo/2

  8. #133
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wilts
    Posts
    5,346
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    "Take back control"?

    "Get Brexit Done"?




    Anyway, possible light at the end of the tunnel with the beginning of the end of Bozo and hopefully that whole rotten, corrupt shower of sh*te that are government. Hoping they go for Truss - she's thick as mince and would be destroyed at the Dispatch Box.

    Long-time Bozo supporter Jesse Norman MP really putting the boot in with their letter.

    Criticises Bozo's threats to rescind the NIP, the Rwanda migrant camp, draconian anti-protest laws, privatisation of C4, and centralising power within No10.

    I do wonder how many of those policies Norman publicly supported/voted for along the way, though...

    https://twitter.com/Jesse_Norman/sta...403393/photo/2
    Mostly irrelevant - the Conservatives will still win the next election with or without Johnson.

  9. #134
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wilts
    Posts
    5,346
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Mostly irrelevant - the Conservatives will still win the next election with or without Johnson.
    And after that vote it looks like without. Johnson is toast. Dead man walking.

  10. #135
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Refugee from the fascist state of RLFans
    Posts
    5,853
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Mostly irrelevant - the Conservatives will still win the next election with or without Johnson.

    Barring some huge, unforseen event, they really won't.

    Watch for the result in Wakefield - they will be trounced. Obviously this is a by-election so the result will be more pronounced. But polling experts foresee them losing a swathe of the 'Red wall' seats they nabbed in 2019.

    To complete the pincer movement, the Lib Dems are making major strides in the southern 'blue wall'. They're expected to overturn a 24k majority in Tiverton & Honiton later this month.

    It's odds-on that there'll be a hung Parliament after the next GE. And none of the parties (barring the bowler-hatted bigots in NI) would go into government with them.

    And then I hope FPTP is scrapped in favour of a PR system.

  11. #136
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wilts
    Posts
    5,346
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Barring some huge, unforseen event, they really won't.

    Watch for the result in Wakefield - they will be trounced. Obviously this is a by-election so the result will be more pronounced. But polling experts foresee them losing a swathe of the 'Red wall' seats they nabbed in 2019.

    To complete the pincer movement, the Lib Dems are making major strides in the southern 'blue wall'. They're expected to overturn a 24k majority in Tiverton & Honiton later this month.

    It's odds-on that there'll be a hung Parliament after the next GE. And none of the parties (barring the bowler-hatted bigots in NI) would go into government with them.

    And then I hope FPTP is scrapped in favour of a PR system.
    Mate Labour could’nt even win seats like Bolton, Swindon, Amber Valley and Nuneaton at the council elections. Likewise for all the fanfare about winning Wandsworth they lost Harrow.

    I’m not convinced at all. I am that Wakefield is a goner for them, though.
    Last edited by eddiewaringsflatcap; 7th June 2022 at 09:36.

  12. #137
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Refugee from the fascist state of RLFans
    Posts
    5,853
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Mate Labour could’nt even win seats like Bolton, Swindon, Amber Valley and Nuneaton at the council elections. Likewise for all the fanfare about winning Wandsworth they lost Harrow.

    I’m not convinced at all.

    Yet they won hundreds of other seats - many in 'red wall' areas.

    For instance - as you bring the local elections into it - look at the new Cumberland Council elections. Between 2010 and 2019, the Tories won Carlisle, Copeland and Allerdale from Labour. These were 3 'red wall' constituencies. In the local elections, which covered the entirety of those constituencies, Labour trounced the Tories (ending up with 30 councillors to 7 for the Tories).

    Labour aren't going to sweep the board and win back all the 'red wall' seats; those in parts of the Midlands and North East/East seem more resilient.

    But they don't have to win them all back to deny the Tories a majority.

    Look, in 2019, the Tories assembled a very unique coalition of voters. As well as retaining the vast majority of traditional Tory voters (scared stiff of Corbyn), they attracted Brexit adherents; those who were just sick of the ongoing impasse over Brexit; people for whom 'culture war' issues take precedence; other who simply wouldn't vote for Corbyn; people who viewed Johnson as a breath of fresh air, someone who's a laugh, who they could see themselves having a pint with.

    It was an optimised coalition for the Tories; they aren't going to improve on that and Johnson isn't going to attract new voters (not least because his government has no real policies or plans beyond boosterism, culture wars and tinkering at the fringes of a broken economy and society)

    Yet sections of that coalition will be lost. There's huge dissatisfaction with the Johnson government amongst traditional Tory voters, especially the more centrist/moderate ones. They are more likely to be Remainers who understand the shitfest of red tape, increased costs and unnecessary difficulties imposed on businesses that Brexit has become. Opinion polls show many won't vote for Johnson's 'New Brexit Tory Party'. How many seats will the LD's nab off them? Or take disaffected Tory votes and let Labour take the seat?

    Brexit is done. The impasse has gone as Johnson ploughed through a very hard Brexit. How many of the people who voted Tory in 2019 'to get Brexit done' only lent their vote to Johnson? How many have historically leaned toward Labour for other issues? Now Brexit is done, how many will not vote for Johnson next GE? They don't have to all switch back to Labour (many won't), they just have to not vote Tory. If I were putting a bet on the next GE, I'd put my house on turnout being lower than in 2019.

    I think the Brexit zealots will obviously still vote for him. As will most traditional Tory voters (many holding their nose). And, of course, the 'culture warriors'.

    But all indications point to that not being enough.

  13. #138
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,518
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Barring some huge, unforseen event, they really won't.

    Watch for the result in Wakefield - they will be trounced. Obviously this is a by-election so the result will be more pronounced. But polling experts foresee them losing a swathe of the 'Red wall' seats they nabbed in 2019.

    To complete the pincer movement, the Lib Dems are making major strides in the southern 'blue wall'. They're expected to overturn a 24k majority in Tiverton & Honiton later this month.

    It's odds-on that there'll be a hung Parliament after the next GE. And none of the parties (barring the bowler-hatted bigots in NI) would go into government with them.

    And then I hope FPTP is scrapped in favour of a PR system.
    Unfortunately there is a proportion of the population who don’t have the intelligence to comprehend anything other than a three word sound bite (as some on here have admitted).

    So all the a tories have to do is play upon this lowest denominator, with fear and gaslighting.

  14. #139
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    earth
    Posts
    12,084
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Unfortunately there is a proportion of the population who don’t have the intelligence to comprehend anything other than a three word sound bite (as some on here have admitted).

    So all the a tories have to do is play upon this lowest denominator, with fear and gaslighting.
    The reason I personally don’t bother arguing in depth is because nowadays I really don’t think any political party serve the people. I think it’s all theatre and not worth arguing over.
    Also, there are individuals on here whose mental state I actually question. You can’t argue with their logic. It’s like playing chess with a pigeon that shits on the board, knocks over all the pieces then takes off feeling proud.
    Heres an example.

    Butt hurt remainers in 2016 - ‘tsk-tsk the only problem with democracy is stupid ill educated people get a say in things tsk-tsk’
    The same pretentious twonks in 2022 - ‘voter ID implemented by the tories will make it more difficult for everyone to have a vote. This is disgraceful!!! REEEEEE!’

    Also, all those nitwits who take the moral high ground and accuse brexit/tory voters of being gullible dummies are equally as likely to fall for the crap they read or hear from left wing media like The Guardian or CNN. ‘Trump voters are nazis (70+ million in America, really?) MRNA vaccine hesitant people are right leaning conspiracy theorists. BLM isn’t a scam’.

    It’s very difficult to have a proper debate with such people.

    Oh and if the dig about admitting to 3 word sound bites was aimed at me, I intentionally replied to your recent post with a 3 words sentence. Or did that joke go right over your head?
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

  15. #140
    In The South Stand retro74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    St Helens, Lancashire
    Age
    49
    Posts
    4,875
    Rep Power
    24

    Default

    Brexit/Tory voters in the north west are gullible dummies though, I’d agree with that one. Either that or they enjoy self harm

  16. #141
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    earth
    Posts
    12,084
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    Brexit/Tory voters in the north west are gullible dummies though, I’d agree with that one. Either that or they enjoy self harm
    Aye quite possibly.
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

  17. #142
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Refugee from the fascist state of RLFans
    Posts
    5,853
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    also, there are individuals on here whose mental state i actually question.


  18. #143
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wilts
    Posts
    5,346
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    Brexit/Tory voters in the north west are gullible dummies though, I’d agree with that one. Either that or they enjoy self harm
    Or alternatively a large proportion are socially conservative and feel alienated by the direction of the Labour party? Or feel isolated from the likes of Whittome, Sultana and Creasy who appeal to ‘progressives’ but are a distance away from blue collar working class politics (and are generally happt yo be).

    Unfortunately there is a large proportion of these sorts who will continue to think twitter is representative of the country however and will end up defeated again when they should be making mincemeat of an incoherent and vain government.
    Last edited by eddiewaringsflatcap; 7th June 2022 at 20:56.

  19. #144
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,211
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by retro74 View Post
    Brexit/Tory voters in the north west are gullible dummies though, I’d agree with that one. Either that or they enjoy self harm
    Or perhaps they are normal people who have seen their communities decimated over the past 50 years, industries that were the lifeblood of their communities destroyed or moved overseas for cheaper labour and see membership of the EU as partially responsible for that. But you keep calling them gullible or stupid, you arent going to make them want to agree with you.

    Fwiw, i have never voted for the Tories, i did however vote for us to leave the EU, you can vote for one whilst rejecting the other.
    Last edited by Tomsepho; 7th June 2022 at 22:27.

  20. #145
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Refugee from the fascist state of RLFans
    Posts
    5,853
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Or perhaps they are normal people who have seen their communities decimated over the past 50 years, industries that were the lifeblood of their communities destroyed or moved overseas for cheaper labour and see membership of the EU as partially responsible for that. But you keep calling them gullible or stupid, you arent going to make them want to agree with you.

    Fwiw, i have never voted for the Tories, i did however vote for us to leave the EU, you can vote for one whilst rejecting the other.
    I absolutely agree that communities - that were based around industry - have been destroyed. But IMO, blaming the EU is very simplistic (and pretty incorrect)

    You could write an entire thesis on the causes and origins of the industrial decline of the UK and the resultant loss of steady, for-life jobs in manufacturing and primary industries.

    The first visible signs of the rot started in the 70s, then ramped-up in the 80s, with the beginning of the outsourcing of both heavy industry and mass-manufacturing. These were decisions made largely by multinationals.

    That's just continued and increased, with the massive transfer of wealth 'eastwards'.

    However, other countries in the EU have done more than well from an economic and industrial perspective. Germany, Netherlands are two that spring to mind.

    Then look at the US, which in many ways mirrors us in terms of the decline of industry (see the Rust Belt). They have absolutely nothing to do with the EU.

    That's no coincidence, as owners of capital in the UK followed the lead of US corporations into short-term business planning with quarterly targets that centred around profits and dividends.

    Think back to Britain in the Industrial Revolution. Entrepreneurs would be in it for the long haul. Many were tw*ts to their workers, but they built businesses to pass on and keep the business attached to the locality.

    The 80s witnessed the emergence of private equity houses and vulture-capitalism. Through the 90s and into the 00s, a noticeable shift in the mentality toward getting a business to a certain level then enacting the 'exit plan' - ie, flogging the company and trousering a wedge (and bollocks to what happens to the company and workers going forward)

    All aided by wholesale 'deregulation' of the financial markets (a euphemism for removing logical safeguards, as the 2008/9 GFC attests to)

    I'm sounding like a cheerleader for the EU but I'm really not. They are too influenced by big business and the ECB (itself full of ex-Vampire Squid - Goldman Sachs - shysters)

    But I grew up in the 80s, when they seemed to be forcing the Thatcher government to bring in laws and regulations that benefited workers, the environment and consumers.

    I also think that, in the modern world dominated by the ultra-corporate capitalist and Wall St-driven USA, and the fascist state-capitalists of China, being part of a major trading and semi-political bloc is hugely useful. Not least because the massive size of the EU as a market provides the best level of trade agreements; we're seeing already that the UK needs to make concessions to other countries to secure new trade deals (increased immigration from India, meat from Australia that falls below EU food standards, etc)

    And the Single Market has been a boon.

    I pondered about voting Leave. Then decided against after more research. Since the Referendum, I've learned so much more about how Brexit would always be a huge exercise in self-harm. And how the main beneficiaries of the UK being outside the EU are a small number of the super-rich.

  21. #146
    Learning All The Songs
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,518
    Rep Power
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I absolutely agree that communities - that were based around industry - have been destroyed. But IMO, blaming the EU is very simplistic (and pretty incorrect)

    You could write an entire thesis on the causes and origins of the industrial decline of the UK and the resultant loss of steady, for-life jobs in manufacturing and primary industries.

    The first visible signs of the rot started in the 70s, then ramped-up in the 80s, with the beginning of the outsourcing of both heavy industry and mass-manufacturing. These were decisions made largely by multinationals.

    That's just continued and increased, with the massive transfer of wealth 'eastwards'.

    However, other countries in the EU have done more than well from an economic and industrial perspective. Germany, Netherlands are two that spring to mind.

    Then look at the US, which in many ways mirrors us in terms of the decline of industry (see the Rust Belt). They have absolutely nothing to do with the EU.

    That's no coincidence, as owners of capital in the UK followed the lead of US corporations into short-term business planning with quarterly targets that centred around profits and dividends.

    Think back to Britain in the Industrial Revolution. Entrepreneurs would be in it for the long haul. Many were tw*ts to their workers, but they built businesses to pass on and keep the business attached to the locality.

    The 80s witnessed the emergence of private equity houses and vulture-capitalism. Through the 90s and into the 00s, a noticeable shift in the mentality toward getting a business to a certain level then enacting the 'exit plan' - ie, flogging the company and trousering a wedge (and bollocks to what happens to the company and workers going forward)

    All aided by wholesale 'deregulation' of the financial markets (a euphemism for removing logical safeguards, as the 2008/9 GFC attests to)

    I'm sounding like a cheerleader for the EU but I'm really not. They are too influenced by big business and the ECB (itself full of ex-Vampire Squid - Goldman Sachs - shysters)

    But I grew up in the 80s, when they seemed to be forcing the Thatcher government to bring in laws and regulations that benefited workers, the environment and consumers.

    I also think that, in the modern world dominated by the ultra-corporate capitalist and Wall St-driven USA, and the fascist state-capitalists of China, being part of a major trading and semi-political bloc is hugely useful. Not least because the massive size of the EU as a market provides the best level of trade agreements; we're seeing already that the UK needs to make concessions to other countries to secure new trade deals (increased immigration from India, meat from Australia that falls below EU food standards, etc)

    And the Single Market has been a boon.

    I pondered about voting Leave. Then decided against after more research. Since the Referendum, I've learned so much more about how Brexit would always be a huge exercise in self-harm. And how the main beneficiaries of the UK being outside the EU are a small number of the super-rich.
    Pretty much bang in the money, just search Ďthe man who sold Britainí and you get a full run down of Nigel Rudd ( former Pilks chairman) who was put on the boards of British companies and facilitated their sell off to foreign investors. The board of British Aerospace wanted him after they failed to sell it off to a foreign consortium, fortunately the government finally realised that having you main defence contractor owned by a foreign power was not really in the interest of national security.

    These people were the reason behind the decline in UK industry, not globalisation, not cheap European Labour. German,French and Italian companies didnít go this way.

    Oh and it wasnít just Thatcher and the Tories a lot of this sell off went under Blair.

  22. #147
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk fishy3005's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    earth
    Posts
    12,084
    Rep Power
    30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    I pondered about voting leave
    Liar.
    But fair play to you laying the foundations for your inevitable pivot in the future.

    2016 - ‘we should never leave the EU!!’

    2022 - ‘i pondered voting leave’

    2024 - ‘the EU seems to be struggling a bit now doesn’t it?’

    2044 - ‘come sit on my knee grand-kiddies. I will tell you about the day our country decided to break away from the Brussels bureaucratic mafia’

    Is that the way you’re heading????
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

  23. #148
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Refugee from the fascist state of RLFans
    Posts
    5,853
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Liar.
    But fair play to you laying the foundations for your inevitable pivot in the future.

    2016 - ‘we should never leave the EU!!’

    2022 - ‘i pondered voting leave’

    2024 - ‘the EU seems to be struggling a bit now doesn’t it?’

    2044 - ‘come sit on my knee grand-kiddies. I will tell you about the day our country decided to break away from the Brussels bureaucratic mafia’

    Is that the way you’re heading????
    What a bizarre take.

    But the answer is 'no'.

    I explained my reasons for reticence about the EU (pro-big business, influence of ECB/Goldman Sachs) and explained that I concluded the positives (single market, trade agreements, beneficial laws on protections for workers/environment/consumers, etc) outweighed the negatives

    All I've learned since the Referendum has only solidified that conclusion.

    Brexit is a clusterf*ck and is severely damaging this country.

    And that is compounded by economic mismanagement by a grossly incompetent government.

    If you feel the price is worth paying for a 'culture war' and a delusion of sovereignty, then that's your prerogative.

    Thankfully, it seems like the public opinion tide has turned.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-06-09/...research-finds

  24. #149
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Macclesfield
    Age
    46
    Posts
    8,421
    Rep Power
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Thankfully, it seems like the public opinion tide has turned.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-06-09/...research-finds
    I think Brexit is suffering from the same issues Communism/Socialism always has, namely the people in charge of implementing it have never truly believed in it and ended up making a balls up. You can argue for the merits of socialism but opponents will cry ďStalin, Castro, Mao, etcĒ as a means to say it has always been a disaster, as if any of those leaders was actually really a socialist.

    Same rules for Brexit. Iím in the old Labour Bennite school of opposition to the European Union and whatever came before it, but others opposed it for different reasons, meaning you struggle to end up with a Brexit that actually pleases all of those who voted for it. And, Johnson is not a Brexiteer, he eyed it as a chance to win the leadership and assume control, and every decision made since shows him as a leader who isnít really that keen on Brexit but knows his entire reason for being PM is linked to him supporting it.

    Itís a mess, and we suffer from the wrong people being in charge when these things come around. Had Corbyn had the spirit of his convictions and actually supported Brexit for the reasons heís opposed the EU all his political life then we may have had a true left wing Brexit which supported workers, but he sold out and pandered to the middle class liberals in his party who view being in the EU as more important than anything.

    I assume weíll revisit our membership at some point when the Tories are no longer in office, but when that is is still up for debate.

  25. #150
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wilts
    Posts
    5,346
    Rep Power
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    I think Brexit is suffering from the same issues Communism/Socialism always has, namely the people in charge of implementing it have never truly believed in it and ended up making a balls up. You can argue for the merits of socialism but opponents will cry “Stalin, Castro, Mao, etc” as a means to say it has always been a disaster, as if any of those leaders was actually really a socialist.

    Same rules for Brexit. I’m in the old Labour Bennite school of opposition to the European Union and whatever came before it, but others opposed it for different reasons, meaning you struggle to end up with a Brexit that actually pleases all of those who voted for it. And, Johnson is not a Brexiteer, he eyed it as a chance to win the leadership and assume control, and every decision made since shows him as a leader who isn’t really that keen on Brexit but knows his entire reason for being PM is linked to him supporting it.

    It’s a mess, and we suffer from the wrong people being in charge when these things come around. Had Corbyn had the spirit of his convictions and actually supported Brexit for the reasons he’s opposed the EU all his political life then we may have had a true left wing Brexit which supported workers, but he sold out and pandered to the middle class liberals in his party who view being in the EU as more important than anything.

    I assume we’ll revisit our membership at some point when the Tories are no longer in office, but when that is is still up for debate.
    I agree Gray. The likes of Peter Shore and the late great Tony Benn were anti EU. They saw how it was going to impact workers of the future. On a side I’d point out that one of the great learnings of the aftermath of WW2 was that Germany rebuilt stronger with Union membership at a more workplace level, as opposed to membership being drawn more ‘externally’ into a national TU like the UK. One country went on to become a sick man of Europe but the other is a bastion of manufacturing.

    Its surprising to hear the brass neck of the left bleating about culture wars when they were the orchestrators of it. It was their disgusting identity politics meant anyone who was a Brexit in a Blue collar town was dismissed as a ‘gammon’ which just characterises the downright contempt and low regard that this Labour party holds those in such constituencies. Its a shame because those communities need to be heard and it would be the Labour party who wpuld be best placed to have traditionally advanced their case.

    Its often the FBPE twitter brigade with ‘Europe’ in their profile town who cant accept a democratic vote. Most these people have spent a fraction of their life there, mainly on holiday and yet there they are… European. Many of these people can’t accept that there are many places in the UK that are socially conservative; their conviction of their own moral superiority and ‘cause’ means they can’t. They are trapped in their own psychosis clinging on to I articles, New Statesman pieces and poorly written Guardian articles.

    I’d be devastated if the likes of Whitome, Bryant, Sultana, Creasy and Phillips were Labour candidates in my constituency. Their line of warped thinking would ruin the country. The politics of victimhood and feeling over fact.
    Last edited by eddiewaringsflatcap; 12th June 2022 at 16:39.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •