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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Bloodbath in Hartlepool
    Think it was always likely to happen, Starmer will be gone soon, he doesnt seem to have come across well at all, it doesnt feel like he has been able to land lasting damage upon Johnson, even when there was open goals for him to exploit. There seems to be a lot of talk about replacing him with Andy Burnham, at least he stood up and fought for what he thought was right last year when the government tried to enforce strict restrictions on Manchester when the data was very similar to the rest if the country.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Think it was always likely to happen, Starmer will be gone soon, he doesnt seem to have come across well at all, it doesnt feel like he has been able to land lasting damage upon Johnson, even when there was open goals for him to exploit. There seems to be a lot of talk about replacing him with Andy Burnham, at least he stood up and fought for what he thought was right last year when the government tried to enforce strict restrictions on Manchester when the data was very similar to the rest if the country.
    Burnham has always come across to me as a decent chap but an opportunist who floats in the breeze. He was a Blairite, then got behind Miliband, then pretended to be on the left, then realised he could become 'The King of the North' and basically do what he wanted in a Labour city where he couldn't be beaten. Far easier standing up to a Tory government when your position is rock solid, but alot harder making the relevant compromises and decisions nationally, and he's always seemed a bit out of his depth at that level. I think he definitely wants the job though, but I imagine he knows Labour have no chance probably until the election after the 2023-24 one, so he'll want Starmer to take the hit before he comes in against a Tory government that will 15 years in and possibly more ripe for beating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomsepho View Post
    Think it was always likely to happen, Starmer will be gone soon, he doesnt seem to have come across well at all, it doesnt feel like he has been able to land lasting damage upon Johnson, even when there was open goals for him to exploit. There seems to be a lot of talk about replacing him with Andy Burnham, at least he stood up and fought for what he thought was right last year when the government tried to enforce strict restrictions on Manchester when the data was very similar to the rest if the country.
    Like Gray I think Burnham is too savvy to risk jumping into this mess. Im struggling to see a viable replacement for Starmer. Its just not good for his career.

    Any new Labour leader will need to heal the neurosis between the liberal left who personally I despise and the radical, Momentum left who are unelectable.

    Anyway - one for Webbo:

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.i...967.html%3famp

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    Mahmood is obviously spot on, but funny how when a Labour MP says it the media all take interest and take it seriously, despite loads saying it many times before and being called reactionaries and bigots for challenging the narrative.

    I don’t think Thursday was the end of the slide for Labour, I think it’s a terminal decline which has yet to get anywhere near its low point. You look at the Socialist Party in France, the party of Mitterrand, Hollande, etc, the party that won two of the last five presidential elections and had 280 seats in the assembly five years ago. Now, they have 30, they came sixth in the European elections in 2019 and are a complete irrelevance. France is a naturally more left wing nation as well, so if their established centre-left party can be destroyed in a decade there’s no reason Labour can’t be as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Mahmood is obviously spot on, but funny how when a Labour MP says it the media all take interest and take it seriously, despite loads saying it many times before and being called reactionaries and bigots for challenging the narrative.

    I don’t think Thursday was the end of the slide for Labour, I think it’s a terminal decline which has yet to get anywhere near its low point. You look at the Socialist Party in France, the party of Mitterrand, Hollande, etc, the party that won two of the last five presidential elections and had 280 seats in the assembly five years ago. Now, they have 30, they came sixth in the European elections in 2019 and are a complete irrelevance. France is a naturally more left wing nation as well, so if their established centre-left party can be destroyed in a decade there’s no reason Labour can’t be as well.
    Agree mate but this is what happens when a party adopts activism as a modus operandi and worst of all preaches only to the converted as an act of self denial.

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    When you hear Starmer (and Corbyn before him) you have to wonder if they’re Tory moles.
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishy3005 View Post
    Translates as

    ‘I have no citations at hand, but im educated, you aren’t. I’m intelligent, you aren’t. I’m informed, you aren’t. Trust me, i just know better. Don’t question that. You’re much better off just keeping quiet.’

    Ok got ya.
    You mean Ignorance is Strength

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    It isnt often I agree with Blair but this piece is spot https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.s...635.html%3famp

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    Labour conference going well

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    Labour conference going well
    I'm pretty sure if someone formed a party that was generally common sense and centre they'd absolutely romp a general election at the moment

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    I'm pretty sure if someone formed a party that was generally common sense and centre they'd absolutely romp a general election at the moment
    I wouldn’t hold your breath mate
    screaming in the family corner, scaring the kiddies

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulscnthorpe View Post
    I'm pretty sure if someone formed a party that was generally common sense and centre they'd absolutely romp a general election at the moment
    I think the Conservatives are in for an easy ride and a long, long period of governance. Labour is out of control; absolute dumpster fire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    I think the Conservatives are in for an easy ride and a long, long period of governance. Labour is out of control; absolute dumpster fire.
    They're a shambles.

    But you make it sound like this government is performing better. They're not. Their incompetence is matched only by their endemic corruption.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    They're a shambles.

    But you make it sound like this government is performing better. They're not. Their incompetence is matched only by their endemic corruption.
    A competent opposition would have them on the backfoot; its a shame Johnson is getting a get out of jail free card. An absolute egotist who I can't stand.

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    Starmer is f*cking useless.

    Corbyn was totally out of his depth, and as his tenure wore on, the nutcase 'social justice warrior' bollocks wormed its way more prominently into Labour policy. But at least he had some sort of vision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Starmer is f*cking useless.

    Corbyn was totally out of his depth, and as his tenure wore on, the nutcase 'social justice warrior' bollocks wormed its way more prominently into Labour policy. But at least he had some sort of vision.
    In fairness a better day for Keith today, I thought the speech went ok despite the efforts of a few crackpots to make the day about them and their 'activism.'

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    The cross-party Parliamentary Standards Committee investigated Tory MP Owen Paterson for lobbying ministers on behalf of two companies that he was taking payment from.

    They found him guilty as hell.

    The Parliamentary Standards Commissioner recommended a 30-day suspension.

    To avoid this, the Tory Government proposed an amendment that not just would halt the punishment, but 'reform' the Parliamentary Standards Committee to impose a former Tory minister as Chair, and build-in a Tory majority on the committee.

    This is pure corruption by the most corrupt government in living memory. It will make it harder for corrupt Tory MPs to be even investigated, let alone punished for their corruption.

    And this, you suspect, is the whole aim.

    The 'crowning turd in the waterpipe' is that the corrupt scumbag Owen Paterson was allowed to vote in favour of the amendment that saved his corrupt ass.

    Step by step, this government is removing the checks and balances that, without a proper Written Constitution, are essential to prevent corruption and despotism.

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    I'm no tory but the guy was not allowed to call any witnesses (he had 17) and under the current rules not allowed to appeal

    I don't know if he is guilty or not but that current set up is clearly not fit for purpose and I would say the same if the mp suspended was from any party

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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1973 View Post
    I'm no tory but the guy was not allowed to call any witnesses (he had 17) and under the current rules not allowed to appeal

    I don't know if he is guilty or not but that current set up is clearly not fit for purpose and I would say the same if the mp suspended was from any party
    It does seem like, based on what you say, the current system isnt fit for purpose. But i think the bigger issue is the selective application of the rules, for example Rob Roberts was found to have harassed a member if his staff, suspended from the Commons for 6 weeks and kicked out of the Tories for 12, because it was judged by an independent body and not the parliamentary standards body he did not face a recall petition, this loophole has been closed and the Tories insist that the new rules cannot apply, whereas in this case not only have they thrown out the old rules they want to create new ones that they will have power over, removing any independence from proceedings that need to be there to limit corruption.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1973 View Post
    I'm no tory but the guy was not allowed to call any witnesses (he had 17) and under the current rules not allowed to appeal

    I don't know if he is guilty or not but that current set up is clearly not fit for purpose and I would say the same if the mp suspended was from any party

    Sorry, but that is misleading bullsh*t. It's been flying round the echo chambers of Facebook and Twitter from people wanting to protect the Tories and downplay this whole event.

    This article covers every weasley claim by Paterson, and I'd suggest you read it rather than believing the crap put out by Tory loyalists and right-wing bots - https://www.theguardian.com/politics...up-in-analysis

    Here's the part about the witness thing:

    The 17 witnesses provided written statements, which the standards committee said they received and read. However, the committee said that they “do not see what further relevant information could usefully be gleaned by inviting oral evidence from the witnesses concerned”.

    Paterson claimed the witnesses would testify that his intentions were good. But the committee said “subjective motivation is not the test under the lobbying rules” and that seven of the 14 approaches found to be in breach of paid advocacy rules were emails or letters from Paterson personally, meaning oral evidence from those who supported him was unlikely to materially alter its conclusions.


    Anyway, this is about more than Owen Paterson. He was just the smokescreen to get rid of the current cross-party Standards Committee and and replace with one dominated, controlled and chaired by Tory Government figures.

    As Cummings has put it today:

    Yesterday was a preemptive strike by PM on EC & Stone. Tory MPs are just expendable cannon fodder. This is about trying to keep secret the coverup earlier this year on his illegal donations & lies to Geidt and the Cabinet Secretary about it all #FOLLOWTHEMONEY
    He's not the first to point this out - that it's a Tory ploy to neuter the Standards Committee and independent Commissioner, so they can get away with the corruption that is endemic in that government (the Covid contracts, Bozo's taxpayer payments to that women he was shagging, helping property developers dodge tax, the dirty Russian oligarch money, the selling access to Ministers, Bozo's flat refurb, Tory MPs taking payment from companies to lobby for them.)

    That Bozo has now seemingly u-turned, and will allow a separate vote on whether Paterson should be suspended is just a decoy; some red meat to throw MPs off the trail and get the amendments through that would protect Bozo and other key Tory bigwigs. Paterson is being offered up as the sacrificial lamb.

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    It will be interesting to hear the response of the glorious St Helens council to this:

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/0...rooming-gangs/

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    So... Ukraine


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    Germany 1930s/Russia under Putin. 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it'. (With a sequel in Taiwan in about 5 years if he gets away with it)

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    Nobody - unless a totally brainwashed Troy/Bozo/Brexit fundamentalist - can still support this shower of corrupt, lying, law-breaking scum in government.

    Surely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Nobody - unless a totally brainwashed Troy/Bozo/Brexit fundamentalist - can still support this shower of corrupt, lying, law-breaking scum in government.

    Surely.
    They can and will. The postmodern left is a worse alternative to many. Its identity politics (infested within Labour) would send the country back to the 70's. Its disregard of the Brexit result will continue to alienate its core constituency. Labour: Not Hartlepool, totally Hampstead.

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