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Thread: Crowds back from May - hopefully

  1. #26
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    Tell them the side effect of not having the vaccine is Covid 19 now .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    Obviously anyone who thinks they're going to be micro chipped is an idiot, I still can't get a straight answer from anyone as to why any government would want to do this.

    However, I can understand legitimate reasons why people may not want the vaccine, for example, what are the side effects 5 or 10 years from now being the main one. Other people don't like the idea of being told what to do, myself included, although I will have it if I need it for work.
    You’ve got to understand though mate that safety hasn’t been compromised, the vaccines have been through numerous independent rigorous tests.

    The only reason they’ve been rushed through is that it is a global issue and they’ve had unlimited funding. Red tape has been cut. I work for the NHS and I’ve had my first dose already and gladly accepted it.

    Also for those saying that those who refuse to be vaccinated will ruin the route out of lockdown, I disagree. Not every one has flu jabs but it doesn’t mean that everyone will get flu. If there’s less people who can transmit COVID then naturally cases will be fewer. Those who have been vaccinated are much less likely to transmit (according to the data, especially Israel) so as long as the vast majority of people are vaccinated (which will be the case here) then we will be fine.

    Also I think June 21st is worse case scenario. He doesn’t want another lockdown so the data probably indicates we could open up earlier although with more of a risk. He is taking the cautious approach.


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    Each to their own. Im not an anti vaxxer, but the things that worry me about it are the unkown side effects of 5 / 10 / 20 / 30 years from now and how it hasn't been tested against fertility.

    I know a few young people who already have enough obstacles for getting pregnant and will want evidence on that before taking it. So taking the risk of catching it with a huge survival rate is something people are willing to risk as long as they are sensible and isolate properly if they do catch it.

    I mean it when I say I am more than happy for people who are happy to take it though. Just don't brand all of the people refusing it as idiots because if you're vaccinated, surely you don't need to worry about yourself catching it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    You’ve got to understand though mate that safety hasn’t been compromised, the vaccines have been through numerous independent rigorous tests.

    The only reason they’ve been rushed through is that it is a global issue and they’ve had unlimited funding. Red tape has been cut. I work for the NHS and I’ve had my first dose already and gladly accepted it.

    Also for those saying that those who refuse to be vaccinated will ruin the route out of lockdown, I disagree. Not every one has flu jabs but it doesn’t mean that everyone will get flu. If there’s less people who can transmit COVID then naturally cases will be fewer. Those who have been vaccinated are much less likely to transmit (according to the data, especially Israel) so as long as the vast majority of people are vaccinated (which will be the case here) then we will be fine.

    Also I think June 21st is worse case scenario. He doesn’t want another lockdown so the data probably indicates we could open up earlier although with more of a risk. He is taking the cautious approach.
    The Tory papers that get briefed and know people in Downing Street are all saying the same, that he's been stung by previous false dawns and is now under-promising to avoid another climb down. I think 21 June is the end of the line, and I think the majority of people will take this and be responsible now that there is a definitive end point in clear sight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint Ged View Post
    Tell them the side effect of not having the vaccine is Covid 19 now .
    And this is it in a nutshell.

    Risk is something we all take on board with our choices in life. It's just a case of what level of risk you are prepared to take.

    The majority of us, through our lifestyle and habits, accept some sort of risk. Many of us also live with inherited risk. Genes can make you more susceptible to all manner of life threatening illnesses. None, though, are an absolute death sentence and nobody is absolutely safe. The best you can ever do is to minimise your risks.

    So, let's put all this into perspective.

    You could say that Covid is only 1% likely to kill you, although it could be 10% or 0.05% dependent upon your age and health. Statistically, not likely. However, if you statistically way up the odds, somebody without a current terminal illness isn't likely to die this year from anything at all, but the reality is that 50 million across the globe will die this year and the majority of them would have had odds of less than a few percent on them croking it in 2021. All of a sudden, those Covid odds don't seem as favourable. Even at 1%, it puts it into the top two or three likeliest of things to kill you this year. The odds on dying as a result of the vaccine would be astronomically lower.

    Of course, the main concern about the vaccine for those with a vague degree of intelligence (as opposed to stubborn old goats who don't want to be "controlled") are that we don't know about the long term effects. Yet for some unaccountable reason, they are much happier to take their chances with a Covid virus that has already proven for many to have some rather debilitating long term effects. Surely, that's completely and utterly bonkers logic.

    No treatment in the world is not without possible side effects, but you don't turn down chemotherapy in case the treatment makes you feel ill, and nor do you not take your antibiotics because there is a list of potential side-effects as long as your arm. It's a case of what is more of a risk, and to put this quite frankly, if you seriously believe that a vaccine is more likely to give you a problem long term, even if you are young and healthy, then your physical well-being isn't your only health issue.

    Conspiracy theorists seem to share a characteristic of craving to be correct so much that they ignore any evidence that contradicts their view, and this is a problem that we face with these people. They seek confirmation bias and only entertain the views of the small percentage that they share the same beliefs as, whereas the remainder is dismissed as "mainstream media brainwashing", as they simultaneously brand some of the world's most intelligent rocket scientists as "sheep".

    It's a crazy world in which we live, when (and no disrespect meant) shelf stackers and road sweepers with Facebook accounts are perceived by these people as being intellectually superior to scientists who have undergone years of top level training at the best medical universities in the world to get where they are today.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    You’ve got to understand though mate that safety hasn’t been compromised, the vaccines have been through numerous independent rigorous tests.

    The only reason they’ve been rushed through is that it is a global issue and they’ve had unlimited funding. Red tape has been cut. I work for the NHS and I’ve had my first dose already and gladly accepted it.

    Also for those saying that those who refuse to be vaccinated will ruin the route out of lockdown, I disagree. Not every one has flu jabs but it doesn’t mean that everyone will get flu. If there’s less people who can transmit COVID then naturally cases will be fewer. Those who have been vaccinated are much less likely to transmit (according to the data, especially Israel) so as long as the vast majority of people are vaccinated (which will be the case here) then we will be fine.

    Also I think June 21st is worse case scenario. He doesn’t want another lockdown so the data probably indicates we could open up earlier although with more of a risk. He is taking the cautious approach.


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    I'd like to share that optimism, there does seem to be a more cautious approach and even Sir Keir Starmer was saying today in Parliament that Boris shouldn't get derailed by his own party and be tempted to speed things up and be most hasty with lifting restrictions.

    You'd hope with the 5 week intervals between phases, that the data will hopefully show positive signs and that we can continue to lift things as outlined today.

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    The safety of the vaccine is a red herring. It's not reinventing the wheel, just using the same proven mechanisms to trigger the body's own immune systems. It's akin to handing our own defences a blueprint of the virus and saying, "that's what the evil bugger looks like, if you spot it, destroy it"

    It's a basic process that's been safely utilised with countless vaccines for years. There cannot be any threat to fertility because there's nothing in there that would be a threat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Conspiracy theorists seem to share a characteristic of craving to be correct so much that they ignore any evidence that contradicts their view, and this is a problem that we face with these people. They seek confirmation bias and only entertain the views of the small percentage that they share the same beliefs as, whereas the remainder is dismissed as "mainstream media brainwashing", as they simultaneously brand some of the world's most intelligent rocket scientists as "sheep".

    It's a crazy world in which we live, when (and no disrespect meant) shelf stackers and road sweepers with Facebook accounts are perceived by these people as being intellectually superior to scientists who have undergone years of top level training at the best medical universities in the world to get where they are today.

    Michael Gove proclaiming that "we've all had quite enough of experts" hit a note with many nutters.

    Top post, by the way
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    The safety of the vaccine is a red herring. It's not reinventing the wheel, just using the same proven mechanisms to trigger the body's own immune systems. It's akin to handing our own defences a blueprint of the virus and saying, "that's what the evil bugger looks like, if you spot it, destroy it"

    It's a basic process that's been safely utilised with countless vaccines for years. There cannot be any threat to fertility because there's nothing in there that would be a threat.
    Bloody hell Webbo. Fertility is the least of my worries, the wife has been on the menopause since our Daughter was born. She turned 18 in December.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Michael Gove proclaiming that "we've all had quite enough of experts" hit a note with many nutters.

    Top post, by the way
    You’re right, and it was such a weird thing for him to say because like him or not he is an extremely intelligent man who has listened to many experts and puts a lot of thought into his work, regardless if you think the outcomes are right or wrong. For him to say that was baffling, but it definitely left its mark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    You’re right, and it was such a weird thing for him to say because like him or not he is an extremely intelligent man who has listened to many experts and puts a lot of thought into his work, regardless if you think the outcomes are right or wrong. For him to say that was baffling, but it definitely left its mark.
    He said it because most experts were speaking out against the political issue he wanted to be implemented.

    I genuinely think he is a psychopath. His time as Education Secretary especially saw ridiculous changes forced on teaching, which seemed a disturbing mix of 1950s nostalgia and sheer vindictiveness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    Bloody hell Webbo. Fertility is the least of my worries, the wife has been on the menopause since our Daughter was born. She turned 18 in December.


    Lucky you!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    You’re right, and it was such a weird thing for him to say because like him or not he is an extremely intelligent man who has listened to many experts and puts a lot of thought into his work, regardless if you think the outcomes are right or wrong. For him to say that was baffling, but it definitely left its mark.
    I can’t stand the man; a horrible little malcontent lingering in the background always up to no good like an inverted Uriah Heep. Wilf Self was right about him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webbo Again View Post
    Up to 30% of UK adults expected to refuse the vaccination. This provides a pool of people for the virus to continue thriving, acting as a propagation lab for mutations, those people getting ill and potentially hospitalised themselves (costing the country more money, taking up more NHS resources & beds). And remember that the vaccine isn't a universal silver bullet; a tiny minority who've been vaccinated will still become ill (certain medical conditions, immuno-compromised, etc)

    Seriously, why are these cretins refusing the vaccine?
    In an ideal world, any antivaxxer tw*t would be banned from every public building, pub, restaurant, shop, sports/entertainment venue, etc, banned from leaving the country, and have to wear a bell tied to their head that announces them as an utter dick and possible plague carrier.
    I think that you answered your own question

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    Quote Originally Posted by cfaw View Post
    Each to their own. Im not an anti vaxxer, but the things that worry me about it are the unkown side effects of 5 / 10 / 20 / 30 years from now and how it hasn't been tested against fertility.

    I know a few young people who already have enough obstacles for getting pregnant and will want evidence on that before taking it. So taking the risk of catching it with a huge survival rate is something people are willing to risk as long as they are sensible and isolate properly if they do catch it.

    I mean it when I say I am more than happy for people who are happy to take it though. Just don't brand all of the people refusing it as idiots because if you're vaccinated, surely you don't need to worry about yourself catching it?
    Oh come on excessive alcohol consumption (more than 14 units a week) can cause fertility problems. What about the white stuff people snort up their noses or the happy pills, has each batch of that been rigorously tested.

    The fertility issue has been dreamt up by anti-Vaxers since it is a long term effect that they think no-one can comment on, but hey what if it causes autism, what if it makes the male member double in size, what if....... what if.... what if....

    The vaccine will protect you from a very nasty disease. Ok it generally kills older people (but is 50+ that old these days)but there are cases of young people who have died with no underlying health conditions, so if you want to take the what if.. gamble, what if you catch it and develop the more serious strain of the disease, what if you donÂ’t recover. There are also many cases of the younger cohort suffering from long term effects of the disease (long COVID).


    Oh and you obviously donÂ’t know how vaccination works (unbelievable considering the information out there) if the majority of population is vaccinated the disease will struggle to get a hold. This will protect those people who canÂ’t be vaccinated due to medical reasons. Also if only small proportion are vaccinated then the disease can get a hold and mutate, which can render the vaccine useless.

    But hey go on and live you selfish life, you are obviously more special than the rest of us.

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    I'd prefer it if it was the anti vaxers who had the fertility problems, then we would slowly get rid of them and the disease numbers would lessen quicker over long time as well. On a different note, how is light up my senses going to sound, sung by two or three thousand in masks, old farts like me in the library stand just listen in appreciation

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    It will be interesting to see the % uptake of the population who have accepted the jab before that 3rd week in June Road Map date.

    These anti vaxers are getting on my wick now, these are the activists type ones with the placards and posting "propaganda" through the letter boxes, can we not round up the ones who are in complete denial that the virus doesn't exist and ask them to do a weekly shift of 12 hours a day working in a Covid ward without any protection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bostik Bailey View Post
    Oh come on excessive alcohol consumption (more than 14 units a week) can cause fertility problems. What about the white stuff people snort up their noses or the happy pills, has each batch of that been rigorously tested.

    The fertility issue has been dreamt up by anti-Vaxers since it is a long term effect that they think no-one can comment on, but hey what if it causes autism, what if it makes the male member double in size, what if....... what if.... what if....

    The vaccine will protect you from a very nasty disease. Ok it generally kills older people (but is 50+ that old these days)but there are cases of young people who have died with no underlying health conditions, so if you want to take the what if.. gamble, what if you catch it and develop the more serious strain of the disease, what if you donÂ’t recover. There are also many cases of the younger cohort suffering from long term effects of the disease (long COVID).


    Oh and you obviously donÂ’t know how vaccination works (unbelievable considering the information out there) if the majority of population is vaccinated the disease will struggle to get a hold. This will protect those people who canÂ’t be vaccinated due to medical reasons. Also if only small proportion are vaccinated then the disease can get a hold and mutate, which can render the vaccine useless.

    But hey go on and live you selfish life, you are obviously more special than the rest of us.

    Not everyone who is refusing the vaccine is sniffing and drinking. I only have one beer at the rugby and I've never touched a cig / drug in my life. But even me and my partner have health issues that are obstacles for getting pregnant, So I can understand why some people may wait until they've had a child before taking the vaccine.

    Check the gov website and it says "The vaccines have not yet been tested in pregnancy, so until more information is available, those who are pregnant should not routinely have this vaccine."

    It also states if you have the first and get pregnant, you should wait for the second dose.


    Again, I'm not against the vaccine, I'm thrilled for people that are having it and hope the large majority do have it. But the people shoving their opinion down others necks is ridiculous and selfish without taking time to learn other people's situations

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    The Tory papers that get briefed and know people in Downing Street are all saying the same, that he's been stung by previous false dawns and is now under-promising to avoid another climb down. I think 21 June is the end of the line, and I think the majority of people will take this and be responsible now that there is a definitive end point in clear sight.

    It also gives them leeway to bring forward some lifting of restrictions if appropriate - they love to spin a feelgood story
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reacher View Post
    You’ve got to understand though mate that safety hasn’t been compromised, the vaccines have been through numerous independent rigorous tests.

    The only reason they’ve been rushed through is that it is a global issue and they’ve had unlimited funding. Red tape has been cut. I work for the NHS and I’ve had my first dose already and gladly accepted it.

    Also for those saying that those who refuse to be vaccinated will ruin the route out of lockdown, I disagree. Not every one has flu jabs but it doesn’t mean that everyone will get flu. If there’s less people who can transmit COVID then naturally cases will be fewer. Those who have been vaccinated are much less likely to transmit (according to the data, especially Israel) so as long as the vast majority of people are vaccinated (which will be the case here) then we will be fine.

    Also I think June 21st is worse case scenario. He doesn’t want another lockdown so the data probably indicates we could open up earlier although with more of a risk. He is taking the cautious approach.


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    Yeah, you're probably right, I'm sure they have been tested as much as possible. I'll most likely get the thing as required and hopefully the side effects include growing a full head of hair and a 6 pack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    And this is it in a nutshell.

    Risk is something we all take on board with our choices in life. It's just a case of what level of risk you are prepared to take.

    The majority of us, through our lifestyle and habits, accept some sort of risk. Many of us also live with inherited risk. Genes can make you more susceptible to all manner of life threatening illnesses. None, though, are an absolute death sentence and nobody is absolutely safe. The best you can ever do is to minimise your risks.

    So, let's put all this into perspective.

    You could say that Covid is only 1% likely to kill you, although it could be 10% or 0.05% dependent upon your age and health. Statistically, not likely. However, if you statistically way up the odds, somebody without a current terminal illness isn't likely to die this year from anything at all, but the reality is that 50 million across the globe will die this year and the majority of them would have had odds of less than a few percent on them croking it in 2021. All of a sudden, those Covid odds don't seem as favourable. Even at 1%, it puts it into the top two or three likeliest of things to kill you this year. The odds on dying as a result of the vaccine would be astronomically lower.

    Of course, the main concern about the vaccine for those with a vague degree of intelligence (as opposed to stubborn old goats who don't want to be "controlled") are that we don't know about the long term effects. Yet for some unaccountable reason, they are much happier to take their chances with a Covid virus that has already proven for many to have some rather debilitating long term effects. Surely, that's completely and utterly bonkers logic.

    No treatment in the world is not without possible side effects, but you don't turn down chemotherapy in case the treatment makes you feel ill, and nor do you not take your antibiotics because there is a list of potential side-effects as long as your arm. It's a case of what is more of a risk, and to put this quite frankly, if you seriously believe that a vaccine is more likely to give you a problem long term, even if you are young and healthy, then your physical well-being isn't your only health issue.

    Conspiracy theorists seem to share a characteristic of craving to be correct so much that they ignore any evidence that contradicts their view, and this is a problem that we face with these people. They seek confirmation bias and only entertain the views of the small percentage that they share the same beliefs as, whereas the remainder is dismissed as "mainstream media brainwashing", as they simultaneously brand some of the world's most intelligent rocket scientists as "sheep".

    It's a crazy world in which we live, when (and no disrespect meant) shelf stackers and road sweepers with Facebook accounts are perceived by these people as being intellectually superior to scientists who have undergone years of top level training at the best medical universities in the world to get where they are today.
    Would these be the same scientists who told everyone that thalidomide was safe after over eight years of clinical trials?

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    The difference might be that the thalidomide tragedy was specifically related to pregnancy issues and was given to pregnant women, the fact that the vaccine is not being given to pregnant women is probably out of an abundance of caution which is fair enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    Would these be the same scientists who told everyone that thalidomide was safe after over eight years of clinical trials?
    No it is not the same scientists. Nor is it the same science, one thing that science is very good at is learning, and improving on previous studies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woolyback View Post
    The difference might be that the thalidomide tragedy was specifically related to pregnancy issues and was given to pregnant women, the fact that the vaccine is not being given to pregnant women is probably out of an abundance of caution which is fair enough
    Point is, after years of clinical trials the drug just wasn't safe and we all know the tragedy that followed. The anti covid drugs have had barely any trials yet we're all being told to gleefully shoot it up. I'm not an "anti vaxxer" (aren't labels great, you can pin 'em on someone then ignore their point) but I do think the speed with which this is all being done is rash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prez View Post
    Point is, after years of clinical trials the drug just wasn't safe and we all know the tragedy that followed. The anti covid drugs have had barely any trials yet we're all being told to gleefully shoot it up. I'm not an "anti vaxxer" (aren't labels great, you can pin 'em on someone then ignore their point) but I do think the speed with which this is all being done is rash.
    Quick question, do you drink alcohol? If so are you aware of the well documented risks associated with alcohol consumption.

    The vaccine has not been developed out of thin air it has been developed on the back of existing vaccines and the proteins have been altered to attack this new virus.

    The reason vaccines normally take year is that trials are expensive to run, they wouldn’t run mass trials (as we have seen) for vaccine/drug that may not make it i.e not be effective. Drug companies will initially do small scale trails to keep costs low and see how the drug performs.if it passes the first trials they slowly ramp it up since if at any point it doesn’t work then they will not of invested too much money in trials.

    In case you haven’t realised COVID is completely different, governments have unwritten the cost of trials therefore the normal financial caution does not apply. That is why we have vaccine so quickly.

    The big issue however is that if science does not know something it will say so. Unfortunately idiots see this lack of confirmation as confirmation of there nonsensical views

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