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Thread: Issues in the game

  1. #101
    In The South Stand Angry Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    The first few sentences pierce the heart of the matter because ultimately all that shite detracts from the product. It makes the game look like it’s actually not that entertaining if such tripe is needed. Again does Eamon and the RFL seriously buy such nonsense? Could you imagine airing that concept at an Everton supporters meeting or to the FA? Football commands gravitas and sees such gimmicks beneath it.
    But that's it, who's saying "yeah, that's a great idea", why do we even consider this crap in the first place, why do fans attend. I'm happy to say I've never been to one and never will go to one unless I'm getting a night with Myleene Klass as part of it. I can't see what Sky gain from it other than a few extra games one weekend when they most likely have nothing else on, although I didn't think we were that important as we now get shunned for netball and speedway. I actually feel quite annoyed typing this as I think how far the game has fell because of various inept and potentially corrupt people running the game. Although I do also feel the clubs need to shoulder some responsibility too in being complicit with these ••••s running the game.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    And this is my point regarding MW, why do we need an "event" with crappy entertainment, a fan zone and all the rest of the half arsed shite? It's just another round of games. It's cringeworthy, gimmicky nonsense that we should trying to get away from not encourage. And you can guarantee every year someone has a winge because another group of fans gets ••••ed and a bit lairy. It's hardly ••••ing surprising when fans are encouraged to drink all day and mix together.
    Because managed properly and as part of a proper plan for the game and it’s a vehicle for getting new eyes on the game in terms of fans, sponsors etc and a vehicle to bring some income in if we’re offering it to tender. But yes, you’re right. It is just another load of games plonked in a stadium and that’s the problem. It wouldn’t be aimed at you. Thankfully. You’ll be here regardless. You’ll buy your season ticket. You’ll buy a pint. You might even buy a t shirt from the club shop. Times are changing and the way people connect with sport and what they do in their leisure time is very different from even ten years ago.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddiewaringsflatcap View Post
    The first few sentences pierce the heart of the matter because ultimately all that shite detracts from the product. It makes the game look like it’s actually not that entertaining if such tripe is needed. Again does Eamon and the RFL seriously buy such nonsense? Could you imagine airing that concept at an Everton supporters meeting or to the FA? Football commands gravitas and sees such gimmicks beneath it.
    Gimmicks and football? Have you seen a game lately? At certain places you can have your face beamed into a stadium on a big screen ffs. I’ve seen clubs have all sorts of gimmicks from pizza delivery blokes delivering pizza to a sofa by the side of a pitch to expanded play-offs and “super play-off finals”.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Because managed properly and as part of a proper plan for the game and it’s a vehicle for getting new eyes on the game in terms of fans, sponsors etc and a vehicle to bring some income in if we’re offering it to tender. But yes, you’re right. It is just another load of games plonked in a stadium and that’s the problem. It wouldn’t be aimed at you. Thankfully. You’ll be here regardless. You’ll buy your season ticket. You’ll buy a pint. You might even buy a t shirt from the club shop. Times are changing and the way people connect with sport and what they do in their leisure time is very different from even ten years ago.
    I hear you mate but it clearly hasn't attracted new fans in any guise and there's no point even discussing proper management when the RFL are involved.

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    Starting A Programme Collection sinkers89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Dave View Post
    I hear you mate but it clearly hasn't attracted new fans in any guise and there's no point even discussing proper management when the RFL are involved.
    For what its worth, ive only ever been to the Anfield MW. But we went to the wetherspoons opposite St Johns shopping centre for a pint n breakfast (remember them )


    There was fans of all teams in the pub. Heaving.
    Went to the bar and the manager was rushing round. I was in a saints top, but my accent was local , so he went "what the hell is happening? "

    So I told him. Magic weekend at Anfield ect ect

    I asked him if he had any prior warning.

    Nothing he said. He had the bare minimum to run a Saturday morning breakfast session.


    I went back a few times since and never have I seen it that busy. Not even on matchdays.


    You would think RL would try and contact wetherspoons and be like "we've got a big rugby weekend planned in *insert city of choice* and weve noticed you got X amount of pubs in the region. Could we possibly work something out? A drink token, % off food."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprus View Post
    When Rimmer was basically no 2 to Wood he went on a crusade to open and very much initially fund a number of expansion clubs. Oxford and Gloucester had "owners" very much from the traditional RL stable, Tony Colquitt ex Saints as one. No foundations in place at all, just money pits and both now gone. Hemel was a touch different in that they had established themselves as an amateur club and a useful one at that, but the step up was always going to find them out, one open air temporary stand and a 150 paying supporters it was a disaster waiting to happen and did. That was Rimmers folly and they are no more. I may be wrong but the talk was Hemel sold their licence to Toronto.
    Think they sold it to Otowa

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinkers89 View Post
    For what its worth, ive only ever been to the Anfield MW. But we went to the wetherspoons opposite St Johns shopping centre for a pint n breakfast (remember them )


    There was fans of all teams in the pub. Heaving.
    Went to the bar and the manager was rushing round. I was in a saints top, but my accent was local , so he went "what the hell is happening? "

    So I told him. Magic weekend at Anfield ect ect

    I asked him if he had any prior warning.

    Nothing he said. He had the bare minimum to run a Saturday morning breakfast session.


    I went back a few times since and never have I seen it that busy. Not even on matchdays.


    You would think RL would try and contact wetherspoons and be like "we've got a big rugby weekend planned in *insert city of choice* and weve noticed you got X amount of pubs in the region. Could we possibly work something out? A drink token, % off food."
    It's quite embarrassing to be honest. It seems to a mixture of arrogance and stupidity, and probably comes back to certain individuals earning huge salaries to detrement of proper PR and marketing.

  8. #108
    In The South Stand Tabasco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinkers89 View Post
    For what its worth, ive only ever been to the Anfield MW. But we went to the wetherspoons opposite St Johns shopping centre for a pint n breakfast (remember them )


    There was fans of all teams in the pub. Heaving.
    Went to the bar and the manager was rushing round. I was in a saints top, but my accent was local , so he went "what the hell is happening? "

    So I told him. Magic weekend at Anfield ect ect

    I asked him if he had any prior warning.

    Nothing he said. He had the bare minimum to run a Saturday morning breakfast session.


    I went back a few times since and never have I seen it that busy. Not even on matchdays.


    You would think RL would try and contact wetherspoons and be like "we've got a big rugby weekend planned in *insert city of choice* and weve noticed you got X amount of pubs in the region. Could we possibly work something out? A drink token, % off food."
    Given that Liverpool paid for the Magic Weekend to be held there, surely responsibility for marketing the event to local traders should rest with them rather than the RFL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tabasco View Post
    Given that Liverpool paid for the Magic Weekend to be held there, surely responsibility for marketing the event to local traders should rest with them rather than the RFL.
    Surely how? Yes they should have promoted it but are you trying to say the RFL had no responsibility to do the same given the way they constantly play the expansion card.

  10. #110
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk DD's Avatar
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    Jeepers! Where do we start?

    1) The Play-Offs - Now, I'm a fan of first past the post system, myself, but I'm realistic and realise this will never happen. Therefore, let's get the formula right.

    In 2019, we went back to the best format that has been produced and that is a clearly weighted top five system that rewards each place in turn, with the top three all getting a second chance and the top placed team getting two shots at home to get to the Final. It keeps the season interesting throughout as nobody can coast into the top four knowing they will only need one win to get to the Final, and teams will not face elimination at the first hurdle despite having finished top.

    We were given a top six system last season as a quick fix, to get the play-offs done quickly, and so it concerns me that this system has been employed again this season. It gives no second chances and is straight to a knock-out system. This degrades the league rounds from the start. I can't help but feel that the implementation of it this season is not short term and it is intended to be in place until the next round of RL changes are thought necessary. We had the right formula. Let's not throw that away.

    2) The gulf between the haves and have-nots is getting wider. Whereas the last 25 years suggest that promoted teams have done better than is touted, I suspect this isn't going to last long. We need an overhaul of the system that helps give more funding to the top Championship clubs. This will not be easy, because the pandemic is likely to mean funds are harder for the game to come by.

    I like the cricket approach to promotion and relegation. Two leagues of ten teams with (I suspect) relatively level funding. Two up and two down means that relegation is never a disaster. They are simply two tiers of the same competition. If this was the case and there was level funding. then nobody would fear relegation and nobody would have to go for broke to achieve promotion. It could happen organically.

    My belief is that few of the non-Super League teams harbour any real ambition to attain top tier status anymore. The likes of Oldham, Sheffield and Workington have all been Super League clubs, but the first two have already, in the past, gone on record as saying that if they were to earn promotion on the field, they wouldn't take up the offer of a Super League place. Therefore, we need to ascertain who are serious about being part of the elite and those who simply can't afford it, then get ourselves 20 elite teams and get two strong divisions with a clear gangway between the two.

    Entry into the elite twenty would come in the future by a process of election, whilst those struggling on and off the field over a period of three years, as per the old Super League licencing, would come under threat.

    If I look at those who would be part of the twenty, it would be the Super League clubs plus Toulouse, Featherstone, Widnes, Bradford, Halifax, York, Newcastle and AN Other.

    I'm not sure how funding could ever facilitate this, though, and that's the pitfall.

    If this does not happen, then I'm starting to wonder if P&R is sustainable. Despite the obvious drawbacks of meaningless games, the yoyo effect is going to kick in, to an extent that it will be as bad as what people erroneously believe it was before.

    3) Stop chasing pipe dreams.

    Yes, Toronto got some big crowds, but like living in a dream world where deluded people and Prime Ministers thought that Covid was a quick three month fix, it was never going to spark a RL revolution in North America. Adding Ottawa and New York to a UK based competition is just crazy.

    You look at Toronto and how long was it really going to take Canadian players to come through? Were they ever? I remember Alma-Aty getting the odd 25,000 crowd in Kazakhstan thirty years ago. It was always going to be a passing fad.

    If the North Americans are that interested, let them start grass root competitions. If the locals know little about the game, I don't see how having Championship standard players that aren't even household names in Leigh or Featherstone playing against Swinton or Rochdale are going to excite the folk in uptown Ottawa? Surely, they'd find as much pleasure seeing locals play against cities from across the country they can relate to.

    4) The Challenge Cup is in dire straits. The fans haven't warmed to the new Wembley. Whilst we can never bring back the old Wembley, I thought that the occasion was still great when we alternated between Cardiff and Edinburgh. As soon as the contract with Wembley is up, freshen it up, move the venue around and ditch Magic. Magic has taken that neutral 'weekend away' crowd from the Cup so that needs to go if the Cup is to survive. If we do play it in London, move it to a venue of smaller size so that the whole occasion doesn't come across as a joke on TV, which it does at present.

    To boost crowds, we need to ensure that all clubs include the games as part of a season ticket, and if that means increasing the price by £20 or £30, so be it.

    4) With regards to the 'barge' nature of the game, unfortunately, bulk is king now and we can't reverse that process. However, the emphasis on speed of collision is going to prove to be hugely detrimental to the long-term health and welfare of the players, and this will surely be witnessed over the coming years. I dread to think of the damage it's doing to players joints, let alone brains, to be coached to run at brick walls endlessly every week. Players used to run at gaps to minimise that ferocity. Now they run at players. RL is now not about trying to get from one side of the house to the other by going through the doors. It's become about trying to blast a hole in the wall because it's a shorter distance as the crow flies.

    How this is achieved, of course, is something else, and I can't find an answer.

    5) Finally, the international game.

    The obsession with bringing Ireland, Scotland and Wales on board needs to stop, and the honest truth is that we are not only no further down the road in terms of producing worthwhile teams and spectator interest there than we were in the 1990s, but we are further away. No bugger is interested. It's not in their blood. This is not a case of giving up, as such, but a case of flogging a dead horse being a waste of time. Does this have to go on for another 125 years for the penny to drop?

    Great Britain was a unique brand in team sport that was instantly identifiable with League. It would also allow the rare breed of RL fan that does come from one of the other home countries to get behind and support a team that plays at the top level.

    If you are an outsider and you hear of England v Australia, you are going to think of Union and you are going to compare the two, with us coming out looking not so much unfavourable but embarrassing. The GB product allows us to market something different to Union and take away some of the poorer comparisons that will inevitably be made.

    That lot is just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are other things such as the incessant rule changes every year.

    For me, though, most importantly, the game needs to concentrate on its core strengths. Its roots are actually one of its primary plus points. It’s a Northern working-class game for the people. A great advert for our region. We should not be ashamed of this.


    The obsession with global domination makes us look a bit cringeworthy. Aussie Rules and Gaelic sports feel no need to expand. They know what they are and they are comfortable with it. They do not feel the need to prove they are superior to a more popular code. They are not insecure in their own bodies.

    There is no doubt in my mind that a better impression of our sport comes via outsiders watching St. Helens v Wigan in front of 18,000 full house of passionate spectators who live and breathe the game, rather than watching London v (say) Bristol in front of 2,000 happy-clappy home fans plus half a dozen visitors, whose low crowds only serve to demonstrate to the viewers that the game is unpopular, rather than the opposite impression that the RFL would absurdly perceive it to show.
    THIS YEAR LENDING SUPPORT TO:- St. Helens RLFC, Manchester City, Celtic, Alemannia Aachen, Borussia Dortmund, Preston North End, St. Helens Town, Steps 3 to 6 Non-League Football

  11. #111
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    Dave you make a lot of good points, interestingly only one of them is the product on the field.

    For me the product on the field is about right, last year the new rules introduced made the game faster without being ridiculous. Through covid we never got a full picture as teams were knackered late on in the year so reverted to type. I don't think we need to change things for the sake of things for another few years at least.

    The top five is spot on, and hopefully we'll return to it in 2022 when there's less time constraints.

    I agree on the Union aspect, it annoys me how we feel so insecure that we try and knock Union at every opportunity, it does Indeed make us look small.

    I think the cup final should remain at Wembley - but it should be seen as a real family event, and a 'festival of rugby league' the only way to do that is reduce ticket prices, and subsidise them from elsewhere - I do think magic has taken a lot of that away though. You can essentially watch six games for the price of one. That issue is developed from having two separate entities, Super League want to make theirs the biggest event, with little care for the RFL showpiece event.

  12. #112
    Learning All The Songs KentishBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    To boost crowds, we need to ensure that all clubs include the games as part of a season ticket, and if that means increasing the price by £20 or £30, so be it
    ...
    Some good stuff there DD. I probably agree with most of it, but have my doubts about the above bit.
    I can see fans complaining if CC games are 'added' to the cost of their ST, then their club gets knocked out in an early round.
    The only way I can think of getting round this (apart from just including the 'first' round a club is in) is by giving refunds if you get knocked out. Not sure that clubs would want to go down that route.

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    My belief is that few of the non-Super League teams harbour any real ambition to attain top tier status anymore. The likes of Oldham, Sheffield and Workington have all been Super League clubs, but the first two have already, in the past, gone on record as saying that if they were to earn promotion on the field, they wouldn't take up the offer of a Super League place. Therefore, we need to ascertain who are serious about being part of the elite and those who simply can't afford it, then get ourselves 20 elite teams and get two strong divisions with a clear gangway between the two. D On the field you have nailed it. Sheffield and Oldham are little more than amateur clubs reliant on central funding and basically fiefdoms of Aston and Hamilton, I don't want clubs to die but lets have some realism. Super League has five fairly strong clubs and then five who can perhaps just about hack it facility wise and not quite crowd size. Then D is right you have ten clubs beneath who could really form a competitive Championship and this includes Wakey, Cas and Fev and this if stadium facilities are adequate should have a 1 up, 1 down process. Beneath that have two regional competitions south of Stoke and north of Stoke and they would be amateurs but linked to a super league club. Off the field, its change or die with the Governance its chaotic and being run like a broken council. I would have a massive re-organisation and slim it down to a new body and beg a top businessman to guide it into a business over two years. My choice would be Fred Done. Well done DD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Jeepers! Where do we start?
    Cheers Dave, I was waiting for you and would have PM'd you had you not appeared over this weekend. I'll hopefully have some time over the weekend to have a first go at this.

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    Learning All The Songs KentishBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    Cheers Dave, I was waiting for you and would have PM'd you had you not appeared over this weekend. I'll hopefully have some time over the weekend to have a first go at this.
    Have you any thoughts on how we are all going to 'sign' this?
    I'm quite happy to post my full name on here, but others may want to preserve that element of mystery!
    Shall we PM you with our details? Maybe initials, surname, and approximate location?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Have you any thoughts on how we are all going to 'sign' this?
    I'm quite happy to post my full name on here, but others may want to preserve that element of mystery!
    Shall we PM you with our details? Maybe initials, surname, and approximate location?
    Well you may not want to yet! I’ll get it written and actually gauge whether people think it’s worth putting their name to before I worry about the rest of it. I would hope people would give me their names and I stick them on there, simple as that. PM is likely the best option, but as I said originally it needs to have a decent number or it’s pointless really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Some good stuff there DD. I probably agree with most of it, but have my doubts about the above bit.
    I can see fans complaining if CC games are 'added' to the cost of their ST, then their club gets knocked out in an early round.
    The only way I can think of getting round this (apart from just including the 'first' round a club is in) is by giving refunds if you get knocked out. Not sure that clubs would want to go down that route.
    I agree with Dave on this and have said it before on here. They should make the ST for all home games. If you don’t play an extra home game you’ve lost £20-30 extra over a year, which is annoying but people will live with it, but if you get a home Cup QF and a play off game it would be a great deal and most I reckon would take the risk before the season and think they’d come out on the right side of the deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray77 View Post
    ... most I reckon would take the risk before the season and think they’d come out on the right side of the deal.
    Maybe most of us, Wigan, Wire and some of the other stronger clubs with a decent CC record would, but I can see that having a negative impact on ST sales of the 'weaker' ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KentishBarry View Post
    Maybe most of us, Wigan, Wire and some of the other stronger clubs with a decent CC record would, but I can see that having a negative impact on ST sales of the 'weaker' ones.
    It's not the biggest issue the game has but perhaps a system where say £10 is added to the cost of a season ticket for the CC. All season ticket holders get this as a discount on the final when they buy their tickets but if they choose not to go the cash still goes to the RFL for the competition to be used to support the community game.

    It's not a lot of money and invests people in the final whether their team is there or not but also supports the wider game. There may be an issue where people don't pay out for the semis because they've bought into the final but that's no different to now really.

    It's also easy for me to say as I'm not a season ticket holder so it's not my money I'm talking about.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

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    Two leagues of ten. We’re pretty much at twenty clubs already who are either full time or operate some form of hybrid operation between fully professional and part-time. With the current twelve Super League clubs and then most likely Toulouse, Featherstone, London, York, Bradford, Widnes, Newcastle and Halifax, we’re at twenty.

    Us fans don’t like loop games but I can see why clubs do. The options then look like;
    - You play everyone else in your league three times to play 27 games, 28 with Magic/Summer Bash.

    - You go controversial and play everyone home and away (19), throw in Magic/Summer Bash and then you attempt to revitalise the Challenge Cup by having a group stage made up of four groups of five, with the draw done by drawing clubs from five pots based upon your final finish the season before, with everyone playing the rest of their group home and away, creating a 28 game season. Clubs add it to season tickets and can use third kits/charity shirts for those games and Magic.

    Top four play-offs at both levels.

    Bottom of Super League down and replaced by the Championship Grand Final winner.

    All clubs get the same funding.
    St Helens Rugby League Football Club

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    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD View Post
    Jeepers! Where do we start?

    1) The Play-Offs - Now, I'm a fan of first past the post system, myself, but I'm realistic and realise this will never happen. Therefore, let's get the formula right.

    In 2019, we went back to the best format that has been produced and that is a clearly weighted top five system that rewards each place in turn, with the top three all getting a second chance and the top placed team getting two shots at home to get to the Final. It keeps the season interesting throughout as nobody can coast into the top four knowing they will only need one win to get to the Final, and teams will not face elimination at the first hurdle despite having finished top.

    We were given a top six system last season as a quick fix, to get the play-offs done quickly, and so it concerns me that this system has been employed again this season. It gives no second chances and is straight to a knock-out system. This degrades the league rounds from the start. I can't help but feel that the implementation of it this season is not short term and it is intended to be in place until the next round of RL changes are thought necessary. We had the right formula. Let's not throw that away.

    2) The gulf between the haves and have-nots is getting wider. Whereas the last 25 years suggest that promoted teams have done better than is touted, I suspect this isn't going to last long. We need an overhaul of the system that helps give more funding to the top Championship clubs. This will not be easy, because the pandemic is likely to mean funds are harder for the game to come by.

    I like the cricket approach to promotion and relegation. Two leagues of ten teams with (I suspect) relatively level funding. Two up and two down means that relegation is never a disaster. They are simply two tiers of the same competition. If this was the case and there was level funding. then nobody would fear relegation and nobody would have to go for broke to achieve promotion. It could happen organically.

    My belief is that few of the non-Super League teams harbour any real ambition to attain top tier status anymore. The likes of Oldham, Sheffield and Workington have all been Super League clubs, but the first two have already, in the past, gone on record as saying that if they were to earn promotion on the field, they wouldn't take up the offer of a Super League place. Therefore, we need to ascertain who are serious about being part of the elite and those who simply can't afford it, then get ourselves 20 elite teams and get two strong divisions with a clear gangway between the two.

    Entry into the elite twenty would come in the future by a process of election, whilst those struggling on and off the field over a period of three years, as per the old Super League licencing, would come under threat.

    If I look at those who would be part of the twenty, it would be the Super League clubs plus Toulouse, Featherstone, Widnes, Bradford, Halifax, York, Newcastle and AN Other.

    I'm not sure how funding could ever facilitate this, though, and that's the pitfall.

    If this does not happen, then I'm starting to wonder if P&R is sustainable. Despite the obvious drawbacks of meaningless games, the yoyo effect is going to kick in, to an extent that it will be as bad as what people erroneously believe it was before.

    3) Stop chasing pipe dreams.

    Yes, Toronto got some big crowds, but like living in a dream world where deluded people and Prime Ministers thought that Covid was a quick three month fix, it was never going to spark a RL revolution in North America. Adding Ottawa and New York to a UK based competition is just crazy.

    You look at Toronto and how long was it really going to take Canadian players to come through? Were they ever? I remember Alma-Aty getting the odd 25,000 crowd in Kazakhstan thirty years ago. It was always going to be a passing fad.

    If the North Americans are that interested, let them start grass root competitions. If the locals know little about the game, I don't see how having Championship standard players that aren't even household names in Leigh or Featherstone playing against Swinton or Rochdale are going to excite the folk in uptown Ottawa? Surely, they'd find as much pleasure seeing locals play against cities from across the country they can relate to.

    4) The Challenge Cup is in dire straits. The fans haven't warmed to the new Wembley. Whilst we can never bring back the old Wembley, I thought that the occasion was still great when we alternated between Cardiff and Edinburgh. As soon as the contract with Wembley is up, freshen it up, move the venue around and ditch Magic. Magic has taken that neutral 'weekend away' crowd from the Cup so that needs to go if the Cup is to survive. If we do play it in London, move it to a venue of smaller size so that the whole occasion doesn't come across as a joke on TV, which it does at present.

    To boost crowds, we need to ensure that all clubs include the games as part of a season ticket, and if that means increasing the price by £20 or £30, so be it.

    4) With regards to the 'barge' nature of the game, unfortunately, bulk is king now and we can't reverse that process. However, the emphasis on speed of collision is going to prove to be hugely detrimental to the long-term health and welfare of the players, and this will surely be witnessed over the coming years. I dread to think of the damage it's doing to players joints, let alone brains, to be coached to run at brick walls endlessly every week. Players used to run at gaps to minimise that ferocity. Now they run at players. RL is now not about trying to get from one side of the house to the other by going through the doors. It's become about trying to blast a hole in the wall because it's a shorter distance as the crow flies.

    How this is achieved, of course, is something else, and I can't find an answer.

    5) Finally, the international game.

    The obsession with bringing Ireland, Scotland and Wales on board needs to stop, and the honest truth is that we are not only no further down the road in terms of producing worthwhile teams and spectator interest there than we were in the 1990s, but we are further away. No bugger is interested. It's not in their blood. This is not a case of giving up, as such, but a case of flogging a dead horse being a waste of time. Does this have to go on for another 125 years for the penny to drop?

    Great Britain was a unique brand in team sport that was instantly identifiable with League. It would also allow the rare breed of RL fan that does come from one of the other home countries to get behind and support a team that plays at the top level.

    If you are an outsider and you hear of England v Australia, you are going to think of Union and you are going to compare the two, with us coming out looking not so much unfavourable but embarrassing. The GB product allows us to market something different to Union and take away some of the poorer comparisons that will inevitably be made.

    That lot is just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are other things such as the incessant rule changes every year.

    For me, though, most importantly, the game needs to concentrate on its core strengths. Its roots are actually one of its primary plus points. It’s a Northern working-class game for the people. A great advert for our region. We should not be ashamed of this.


    The obsession with global domination makes us look a bit cringeworthy. Aussie Rules and Gaelic sports feel no need to expand. They know what they are and they are comfortable with it. They do not feel the need to prove they are superior to a more popular code. They are not insecure in their own bodies.

    There is no doubt in my mind that a better impression of our sport comes via outsiders watching St. Helens v Wigan in front of 18,000 full house of passionate spectators who live and breathe the game, rather than watching London v (say) Bristol in front of 2,000 happy-clappy home fans plus half a dozen visitors, whose low crowds only serve to demonstrate to the viewers that the game is unpopular, rather than the opposite impression that the RFL would absurdly perceive it to show.
    You didn't know where to start, but when you did you covered some great points. One of the best posts for a while.

  22. #122
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk Belgian Saint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos Cervezas View Post
    Two leagues of ten. We’re pretty much at twenty clubs already who are either full time or operate some form of hybrid operation between fully professional and part-time. With the current twelve Super League clubs and then most likely Toulouse, Featherstone, London, York, Bradford, Widnes, Newcastle and Halifax, we’re at twenty.

    Us fans don’t like loop games but I can see why clubs do. The options then look like;
    - You play everyone else in your league three times to play 27 games, 28 with Magic/Summer Bash.

    - You go controversial and play everyone home and away (19), throw in Magic/Summer Bash and then you attempt to revitalise the Challenge Cup by having a group stage made up of four groups of five, with the draw done by drawing clubs from five pots based upon your final finish the season before, with everyone playing the rest of their group home and away, creating a 28 game season. Clubs add it to season tickets and can use third kits/charity shirts for those games and Magic.

    Top four play-offs at both levels.

    Bottom of Super League down and replaced by the Championship Grand Final winner.

    All clubs get the same funding.
    I think that the clubs you name are pretty right. Like others I don't like loop fixtures. If we have to have a play off from 10 teams, I would go 2nd v 3rd with winner playing 1st in the final. 4 from 10 is too many for me, and doesn't offer any reward for coming first in the league.

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    I'd be happy to ditch the name Super League, and call it something more dignified. It was always the Rugby League Championship.

    I'd echo presentation of the sport by Sky, and the utilization of "try music" that they used relentlessly for nearly 30 years.

    Get a structure in place, preferably top 5 (whilst personally being a fan of FPTP), and keep it indefinitely, and stop mucking around with it every 2-3 years.

    Ditch loop fixtures. The reason why Gold, or dare I say Bitcoin these days, is valuable is because it is scarce. The amount of time the same fixtures can and do occur per season is tiresome, and often lead to fatigue. At the end of the day, it's a false economy. It's overload. Leave your audience wanting more, and not wanting to miss out.

    I would also limit the amount of sponsors cluttering each playing shirt. You want to create identifiable, and sleek brands, not incoherent patchworks. The PL have strict guidelines, so should Rugby League. If you can't create enough revenue from a maximum of two sponsors, you're doing it wrong.

  24. #124
    Learning All The Songs KentishBarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guns86 View Post
    It's not the biggest issue the game has but perhaps a system where say £10 is added to the cost of a season ticket for the CC. All season ticket holders get this as a discount on the final when they buy their tickets but if they choose not to go the cash still goes to the RFL for the competition to be used to support the community game.

    It's not a lot of money and invests people in the final whether their team is there or not but also supports the wider game. There may be an issue where people don't pay out for the semis because they've bought into the final but that's no different to now really.

    It's also easy for me to say as I'm not a season ticket holder so it's not my money I'm talking about.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
    Falling numbers for CC rounds and final is a big issue IMO. Something I don't really understand as the mood on here is that the CC should stay and is in need of some sort of boost. I'm guessing that is the general feeling across the games fan base? It's certainly something for the open letter.
    I like your idea of the donation and would be happy to cover that, but I stand by what I say. Many would moan about it being unfair, particularly if they're buying multiple tickets for a family group for one of the weaker sides. That £10 becomes £40 or £50.
    I am a season ticket holder. I do attend CC rounds involving Saints, and a group of us go to the final every year, so I guess I'm not the problem here?

  25. #125
    In The North Stand With All The Old Folk paulscnthorpe's Avatar
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    I like the £10 per season ticket over the club's, at a guess there's possibly 70k season ticket holders in SL.

    Would they get that much in gate money, it's probably not that far off.

    The question would be how do you split it for running costs

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